NYCPHP Meetup

[Mike Dikan]

Granted there are some people who want help, no matter where that help  
is coming from - they are fine looking into a telecommuting  
contractor.  My question is just if this list is the place for it, or  
if there is another list specifically for that type of posting.  Its  
like going to ebay (does anyone even shop on ebay anymore?) to shop  
for a computer, going to the 'computers' category, and seeing a bunch  
of computer parts.  Maybe someone out there clicked the computers  
category and also happened to be looking for a video card and is glad  
to see it, but its still an abuse of the system and makes the overall  
categorization aspect of ebay less valuable.

I'm not saying that non NY developers don't have a place here, i'm  
pretty new to the board, and am in no position to say whether or not  
they do or not, i'm just wondering if someone else here who has been  
around a while longer does know what the official (or emergent)  
position is.

Just curious!

On Aug 9, 2008, at 8:48 PM, Sean Fulton wrote:

> As an employer, i appreciate availability posts and *always* check  
> the person out, whether we need help at the moment or not.
>
> I hope that freelancers will continue to post their availability on  
> this list. That's why I am concerned about anything that might  
> inhibit someone from posting for fear of being publicly criticized.
>
> It's hard to find good people! Let them post and I will make my own  
> decisions.
>
> sean
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Mike Dikan" <mike at greenzer.com>
> To: "Donna Marie Vincent" <donnamarievincent at yahoo.com>
> Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org
> Sent: 8/9/2008 7:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about  
> 5+	yrsofexp & good client references
>
> This has all been an interesting discussion, i think Ben has a lot of
> cheers because we have all in some way or another had to feel the pain
> of cleaning up someone else's code mess, be it foreign-built or
> otherwise.  I think the point that it wasn't the place do so might
> have some merit, but one point i haven't heard mentioned is whether or
> not the NY PHP board is really the place for Sundar or any other non-
> NY php developer to post about his services and expect non-reproachful
> responses when he does so.
>
> What are the NY PHP list moderator's positions on that?
>
> -Mike
>
> On Aug 9, 2008, at 6:44 PM, Donna Marie Vincent wrote:
>
>> Some people don't see anything unless and until it's happening to
>> them.  If it doesn't have a negative impact on *you*, then I guess
>> everything is fine.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: RDP <webmiester at gmail.com>
>> To: Donna Marie Vincent <donnamarievincent at yahoo.com>; jobs at lists.nyphp.org
>> Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2008 6:32:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about
>> 5+ yrsofexp & good client references
>>
>> Oh please Donna, the drama!!
>>
>> I didn't see any cruelty in Ben's observation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rob
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Donna Marie Vincent
>> To: jobs at lists.nyphp.org
>> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 1:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about
>> 5+ yrsofexp & good client references
>>
>> This is cruel and inappropriate.  It's more about killing off your
>> competition to build yourself up than it is about providing helpful
>> information.  Barbaric is another word that comes to mind.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: RDP <webmiester at gmail.com>
>> To: sean at gcnpublishing.com; Andrew Wint <wint at socketnet.com>
>> Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org
>> Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2008 12:41:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about
>> 5+ yrs ofexp & good client references
>>
>> I agree with Ben!  Yay Ben!
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Sean Fulton
>> To: Andrew Wint
>> Cc: RDP ; jobs at lists.nyphp.org
>> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 12:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about
>> 5+ yrs ofexp & good client references
>>
>> I disagree. This wasn't a former employer complaining about a
>> consultant's work, this was another consultant, a competitor if you
>> will, stating as fact something that no one can possibly double-
>> check. I think it's unfair, and am surprised that, on a list
>> dedicated to helping consultants find jobs, you folks would not be
>> more concerned about it. I think this is the first time I have seen
>> someone in a public forum accuse someone of something and not be
>> called to provide proof of their claims. Very puzzling.
>>
>> No one knows what the job requirements were, what the client's
>> expectations were, or what the budget was. Did the client provide
>> enough time and budget to have the job done right, or did they just
>> say, "Get it done for next to nothing," and then when they realized
>> the short-sidedness of their approach, hire Ben to clean up the mess
>> rather than go back to the developer they low-balled and admit that
>> they didn't give him enough time and $$ to do the job correctly. We
>> don't know. Ben won't even tell the list who the client was or
>> produce evidence of the inferior work. So to my mind, this whole
>> thread is quite unfair to the developer who originally posted his
>> availability and should be dropped.
>>
>> Finally, as you read this, please keep in mind that we are a company
>> that  employs people on this list, that's why I subscribe. I have
>> employed developers here in the US and in six other countries. I
>> find *no* geo-political differences in coding skills. We evaluate
>> developers based on samples, client references and their ability to
>> follow directions. I have had more than a few developers who are so
>> focused on developing "great code" that they completely ignore the
>> project specs, budget and time-lines. Those people don't last long,
>> but people who follow directions do.
>>
>> Again, without knowing the original assignment that Sundar was given
>> and what went on between he and the client at that time, facts which
>> I doubt even Ben knows, we really can't draw any useful conclusions
>> nor should we try.
>>
>> Just my $.02.
>>
>> sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Andrew Wint wrote:
>>>
>>> All he did was to provide transparency, now we are discussing the
>>> issues. Kristina gave very valid points about the 'delivery of
>>> crappy code' and not being able to take action because they are in
>>> another country.
>>>
>>> Another point is that this why we have standards of development
>>> practices, these standards shouldn't be compromised they can bend a
>>> bit but not break. Sundar needs to seek them out and adhere to them.
>>>
>>> I know it may seem harsh but it may help Sundar down the line in
>>> his growth.  As well as protect a small struggling company,
>>> thinking they are saving money but  falling into a trap.
>>>
>>> Ben did a good thing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 9, 2008, at 10:50 AM, RDP wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm sorry Donna, but I disagree.
>>>>
>>>> It's perfectly fine to express a view about someone's work.
>>>>
>>>> Of course we make errors in our code, everybody does.  But you
>>>> can't evaluate experience without examining ones work.
>>>>
>>>> And employers DO give out this information.  Especially if an
>>>> individual was let go because of inability.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, I'm having a problem imagining rows of unemployed PHP
>>>> coders down and out on skid-row in cardboard boxes, homeless,
>>>> because their work was criticized.
>>>>
>>>> Bye,
>>>>
>>>> Rob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Donna Marie Vincent
>>>> To: jobs at lists.nyphp.org
>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 9:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with
>>>> about 5+ yrs ofexp & good client references
>>>>
>>>> It's not only unethical to publicly disparage an individual's
>>>> ability to perform a job, you could be subject to legal action.
>>>>
>>>> Have you ever made an error while performing your job duties?
>>>>
>>>> Even a former employer would not give out this type of
>>>> information.  Do you want to be responsible for someone not
>>>> getting work, and ending up homeless on the street, because of
>>>> your personal opinion about their work, which may or may not be
>>>> valid?
>>>>
>>>> This is not the same as publicly criticizing a particular product,
>>>> or a company's business practice.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Sat, 8/9/08, Ben Sgro <ben at projectskyline.com> wrote:
>>>> From: Ben Sgro <ben at projectskyline.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with
>>>> about 5+ yrs of exp & good client references
>>>> To:
>>>> Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org
>>>> Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 2:17 AM
>>>>
>>>> Hey,
>>>>
>>>> I audited a site this guy built - it was full of holes - SQL
>>>> injection,
>>>> XSS, default passwords on CMS admin accounts, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Also, the code was PHP4 w/HTML sprinkled all over it, cut and
>>>> paste, no
>>>> functions. No layouts, templates or
>>>> smarty.
>>>> Basically, impossible and very time consuming to make updates.
>>>>
>>>> Be sure to request some source before you work with him.
>>>>
>>>> - Ben
>>>>
>>>> sundar rajan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>> ,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm a Freelance Telecommuting PHP/MySQL Programmer with about 5+
>>>> yrs
>>>>> of experience in building web applications .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Following are the type of small / contract jobs that I take:
>>>>> /Creating Custom scripts
>>>>> Member signup with email verification & login with session
>>>> authentication
>>>>> Dynamic PDF File generation from the database information using
>>>> FPDF
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> libraries
>>>>> Command line processing of PHP scripts
>>>>> Installing CAPTCHA security code for the forms
>>>>> Google Maps <http://maps.google.com/> API to display a location
>>>> with
>>>>
>>>>> pop-up
>>>> info
>>>>> XML parsing to database
>>>>> CSV parsing to database
>>>>> RSS feeds using Carp
>>>>> Handling File uploads
>>>>> Generating statistics reports from the database values
>>>>> Generating Graphical reports from the database values
>>>>> Generating Excel download from the database
>>>> values
>>>>> Working with complex queries in Mysql console
>>>>> Building application with SEO friendly URLs
>>>>> Installing MySQL , Apache , PHP , SVN , AWStats & software apps in
>>>>> linux boxes
>>>>> /
>>>>> I can also take up bigger projects with proper
>>>> specification documents
>>>>
>>>>> along with the UI/HTML prototypes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Checkout my online portfolio at http://www.sundarrajan.com
>>>>> <http://www.sundarrajan.com/> to know more about my skill-set ,
>>>>> experiences , projects as
>>>> well as client references.
>>>>>
>>>>> As a verified premier paypal member since 2005  with over 70
>>>> seller
>>>>> reputation , I can accept paypal / credit card payments.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please do contact me for further details , if you have any jobs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> With regards,
>>>>> Sundar
>>>>> Phone: (+1) 510.455.4387
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> New York PHP
>>>> Community Jobs Mailing
>>>> List
>>>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>>>>>
>>>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
>>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>>>>
>>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>>>
>>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
>>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>>>>
>>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>>>
>>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
>>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>>>>
>>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>>>
>>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>>>
>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>>
>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>
>> -- 
>> Sean Fulton
>> GCN
>> Publishing,
>> Inc.
>> Internet Design, Development and Consulting For Today's Media
>> Companies
>> http://www.gcnpublishing.com
>> (203) 665-6211, x203
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>