NYCPHP Meetup

[Kristina D. H. Anderson]

Let's be realy clear here and clarify that nobody that responded to 
this thread -- myself, Chauncey or the other NYC PHPers, ever made ANY 
comment about "not being able to find work" and I'm puzzled and 
concerned about why it's being turned into that.

Do employers and recruiters really fear empowered technical employees 
to that extent, that any discussion by us about empowering ourselves 
economically has to be turned into a bogus claim that we're whiny and 
unemployed?

Kristina

> 
> Here here, SA. I could not agree with you more. There are an absolute 
metric ton of jobs out there for people with the right skill set. All 
you need to do is be plugged in and willing to learn new stuff. -
Alexander
> 
> From: jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:jobs-
bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Shahan Avedian
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:51 AM
> To: Chauncey Thorn; Kristina D. H. Anderson
> Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects
> 
> I am a technical recuriter based out of the NYC area.   I can tell 
you right now I have jobs paying  150k with 300K total package that we 
cannot find people for right in Manhattan.  The one's that are 
qualified are all working and won't consider it.  I speak to 
consultants all the time who will not get off the sofa unless they get 
95.00 per hour.  ( Some would view 95.00 as a pay cut).   It all comes 
down to skill set.  For every job that is being offshored...there are 
other jobs cannot be offshored nor is there any intention of being 
offshored.
> 
> Just recently I was looking for Strong PHP/Drupal developer...cannot 
tell you how many people I spoke who just wouldn't consider a job 
unless they got paid $100.00 per hour.   Offshoring is hear to 
stay...its not just in the computer programming world.  If companies 
can get the same thing done at a cheaper rate its going to go abroad.  
If they need a real heavy hitter its going to stay here.  The sooner 
people stop viewing themselves as victims and focus on what you have 
control over the quicker you will solve your problems.  I can tell you 
first hand there are whole classes of programmers who don't share these 
views.
> 
> SA
> 
> From: jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:jobs-
bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Chauncey Thorn
> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:46 PM
> To: Kristina D. H. Anderson
> Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects
> 
> I'm not sure a Union would solve the problem. I've been exposed to a 
number of Union workers and they become very complacent knowing that 
they going to be making the same regardless. I feel this could de-value 
the profession.
> 
> CT
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Kristina D. H. Anderson 
<ka at kacomputerconsulting.com<mailto:ka at kacomputerconsulting.com>> wrote:
> I for one am grateful to see the passionate opinions being voiced
> here.  In an industry where so much is expected of us in terms of
> knowledge and commitment, and which has been subjected like no other
> profession to the forces of "globalization" (i.e. wage reduction), we
> do need to consider, really, how offensive it truly is that anyone
> feels our work is worth "minimum wage".
> 
> And we are subjected to insulting stereotypes which hold 
that "computer
> geeks" enjoy their work too much to care about what they get paid, or
> that all we need are some old T-shirts and some cold pizza and we are
> good to go...and how much can that cost?  Please, programmers are not
> all the same, and some even have families they need to support, or
> possibly even other goals besides spending the rest of their lives
> toiling over a hot text editor for practically no money...*GASP*.
> 
> This all comes back to the issue that I feel is at the core of
> things...the lack of licensing or credentialling organizations in our
> field that would perform the core functions that they do in other
> industries...namely to maintain a certain exclusivity of talent and to
> fight against economic pressures seeking to dampen wage or salary 
rates
> in our industry.  Or a programmer's union that could mandate that the
> MINIMUM hourly rate for any union programmer is $40 or $50 or whatever
> they decide on...and make it hard on companies that don't use union
> programmers...or whatever the solution might be.
> 
> I feel that attempting to take work away from NYC programmers by
> undercutting our billing rates to the tune of 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR should
> be explicitly prohibited on this list, because it IS offensive, and
> even potentially harmful.
> 
> Happy coding everyone,
> 
> Kristina
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > I was not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the person who 
posted
> the
> > advertisement.  I monitor the list for Jobs in NYC to see what
> employers are
> > looking for. Seeing someone posting an Ad for what is .75 above
> minimum wage
> > here.  I have ZERO desire to compete with those prices regardless of
> the
> > state of the application after developed.
> >
> > I've been developing PHP application for over 7 year and my base
> price is 8
> > times the lowest they would take to develop an application. I'm sure
> there
> > are other PHP developer here in NYC that are in the same boat. Why
> would we
> > want those types of Ads.
> >
> > I'm sure there are some skilled PHP developers in India that are
> willing to
> > write applications for 8-15 USD. But no skilled PHP developer in the
> NY is
> > going to work for those prices and I spoke up to halt the 
competition.
> > Nothing personal (and I mean that)
> >
> > To be honest I didn't really have a problem with the Ad but when it
> said 8 -
> > 15 USD. I couldn't let it slide.
> > When it comes to "*jobs*" I only care if PHP recruiters and/or
> developers in
> > NYC benefit from this list and that message didn't benefit anyone in
> NYC.
> >
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Paul A Houle 
<paul at devonianfarm.com<mailto:paul at devonianfarm.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Web wrote:
> > >
> > >> I would share this with my friends but I don't have any friends 
in
> India.
> > >>  Nor do I get work from India.
> > >>  That's why I'm on this NEW YORK PHP list.  For New York PHP
> jobs.  NEW
> > >> YORK!
> > >>  Start your own IndiaPHP list.
> > >>  Thank you,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >   People in India don't get work from India.  A big drop in the
> dollar
> > > would be good because it would bring jobs back to the US and
> encourage other
> > > countries to develop balanced local markets in goods and services.
> > >
> > >   There are some world-class organizations in India,  and there 
are
> a lot
> > > of smaller ones that aren't so good.  Overall,  India tends to
> underprice
> > > software development work (and other white collar) done in the US
> by about
> > > 2/3.  In the better cases,  you're paying for more people and for
> people to
> > > manage the extra people,  and get good results.  In the worst
> cases,  you
> > > just get ripped.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
> > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
> > >
> > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > >
> > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Chauncey Thorn
> > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator
> > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com<mailto:chaunceyt at gmail.com>
> > url: http://www.cthorn.com/
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Chauncey Thorn
> PHP Developer/Systems Administrator
> email: chaunceyt at gmail.com<mailto:chaunceyt at gmail.com>
> url: http://www.cthorn.com/
> 
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