From jcrawford at codebowl.com Sun Aug 1 10:10:49 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joe Crawford) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 10:10:49 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OOP Tutorials Message-ID: <1091369449.24364.1.camel@vt-fairhaven1a-82.bur.adelphia.net> Guys & Gals, i am looking for an in depth explanation and example based OOP tutorial, at this time i have been learning OOP in PHP and mostly been using them as collections rather than objects i mean i do $user->login and have it authorize the user and then check $user->isAuth() to see if they are authorized but i believe the point to objects is more than that, and i would like to forward my knowledge in OOP and use it correctly. Joe Crawford Jr. From tgales at tgaconnect.com Sun Aug 1 12:28:02 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 12:28:02 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OOP Tutorials In-Reply-To: <1091369449.24364.1.camel@vt-fairhaven1a-82.bur.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <000201c477e4$83ecf590$e98d3818@oberon1> Joe Crawford writes: > i am looking for an in depth explanation and example based > OOP tutorial, > You might find some of the articles at: http://www.objectmentor.com/resources/listArticles?key=topic&topic=Object% 20Oriented%20Design to be of interest. (They are not really tutorials per se) I recommend: http://www.objectmentor.com/resources/articles/Principles_and_Patterns.PDF by Robert Martin -- (c)2000. here's an excerpt: "Of all the principles of object oriented design, this is the most important. It originated from the work of Bertrand Meyer. It means simply this: We should write our modules so that they can be extended, without requiring them to be modified. In other words, we want to be able to change what the modules do, without changing the source code of the modules." (sometimes Mr. Martin's opinions can appear rather extreme...) T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Sun Aug 1 16:35:27 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 16:35:27 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR::DB->nextID problems Message-ID: <410D540F.80700@spacemonkeylabs.com> Hey list, I'm experimenting with PEAR::DB's nextID method and PostgreSQL 7.4. Everything appears to be on the up-and-up, but I keep getting stale numbers from nextID when called. Just to catch the problem, I wrote an echo to show what DB thinks the next number is in the sequence, and it prints out: UPDATE content SET content_archive_id = 18 WHERE id = 4 ...but pgsql tells me the latest id in the table is 20?!?! Any ideas on how to debug this? -- Mitch From myersm at optonline.net Mon Aug 2 07:17:46 2004 From: myersm at optonline.net (Michael Myers) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 07:17:46 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] SQL question - summary data for two categories Message-ID: <949FCF24-E475-11D8-B366-000A95DB7EF2@optonline.net> I have a primary data table that holds the same type of results for two different categories. There is a column in the table that reflects the category for each row. Up to this point, I have been creating two separate summary tables, one for each category. Is it possible to combine them in one CREATE...SELECT construct? I would add a suffix to the column names to distinguish which category the data came from. The sql below generates the summary data for the category where species = 'human'. Can I do the same for an additional species and put everything into one summary table? DROP TABLE IF EXISTS primary_dr_hum_summ; CREATE TABLE primary_dr_hum_summ SELECT id, ROUND(avg(IC50), 4) AS avg_IC50, COUNT(IC50) as count, ROUND(MIN(IC50), 4) AS min_IC50, ROUND(MAX(IC50), 4) AS max_IC50, ROUND(STD(IC50), 4) AS std_dev, ROUND(max(IC50)/min(IC50)) as ratio FROM primary_dr WHERE species = "human" GROUP BY id ORDER BY avg_IC50; ALTER TABLE primary_dr_hum_summ ADD PRIMARY KEY (id); From webmaster at localnotion.com Mon Aug 2 17:51:43 2004 From: webmaster at localnotion.com (Matthew Terenzio) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:51:43 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] pear.php.net down? Message-ID: <24D2EE32-E4CE-11D8-81E5-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> trying to install some pear packages. . . PEAR_Remote::call: fsockopen(`pear.php.net', 80) failed since browser access fails also, I assume it's down anyone in here privy to the problem? From webmaster at localnotion.com Mon Aug 2 18:22:10 2004 From: webmaster at localnotion.com (Matthew Terenzio) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 18:22:10 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Pear Auth options array Message-ID: <6579C369-E4D2-11D8-81E5-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> Examples I've seen using Pear Auth normally require the Auth module and pass an array of options including database name,type host etc. In practice are most users wrapping this into a class of its own and including that all pages. I mean to say that you wouldn't want to edit all db backed pages if the db host changed right? I can handle abstracting it out. Just wanted to verify that's the case here. Matt Terenzio From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Mon Aug 2 19:14:01 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 19:14:01 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR::DB->nextID problems In-Reply-To: <410D540F.80700@spacemonkeylabs.com> References: <410D540F.80700@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: <20040802231401.GA23741@panix.com> Hi Mitch: On Sun, Aug 01, 2004 at 04:35:27PM -0400, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > > I'm experimenting with PEAR::DB's nextID method and PostgreSQL 7.4. > Everything appears to be on the up-and-up, but I keep getting stale > numbers from nextID when called. That's odd. I'm running 7.4.1 and everything is fine on my tests. Can you please run the 05sequences.phpt test? It's located in /tests/DB/tests/driver or there about depending on your installation. Instructions are here: http://cvs.php.net/co.php/pear/DB/doc/TESTERS I trust you've broken down your problem into a simple test script. If so, email it to me and I'll check it out. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Mon Aug 2 19:18:59 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 19:18:59 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] SQL question - summary data for two categories In-Reply-To: <949FCF24-E475-11D8-B366-000A95DB7EF2@optonline.net> References: <949FCF24-E475-11D8-B366-000A95DB7EF2@optonline.net> Message-ID: <20040802231859.GB23741@panix.com> On Mon, Aug 02, 2004 at 07:17:46AM -0400, Michael Myers wrote: > I have a primary data table that holds the same type of results for two > different categories. There is a column in the table that reflects the > category for each row. Good job. > Up to this point, I have been creating two separate summary tables, one > for each category. Ouch. Glad you've seen the light of merging them into one table. > Is it possible to combine them in one CREATE...SELECT construct? Not really, that I know of. For ease of long term maintenance, comprehension and accuracy in choosing column types, do your self a favor: make one file that just has a CREATE TABLE statement. Don't have it do a create select. Then create separate SELECT INTO statements to move the data from the different tables into the new centralized table. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Mon Aug 2 19:20:21 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 19:20:21 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] pear.php.net down? In-Reply-To: <24D2EE32-E4CE-11D8-81E5-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> References: <24D2EE32-E4CE-11D8-81E5-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> Message-ID: <20040802232021.GC23741@panix.com> Hi Matthew: Yeah, the site was down briefly. It went back up within a few minutes. Perhaps there was a network connectivity hickup. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Mon Aug 2 21:34:44 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 21:34:44 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR::DB->nextID problems In-Reply-To: <20040802231401.GA23741@panix.com> References: <410D540F.80700@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040802231401.GA23741@panix.com> Message-ID: <410EEBB4.8080101@spacemonkeylabs.com> Hey Dan, Congrats for making it to the International PHP Conference final 40! I wager with all of the submissions they limited most everything to PHP-specific stuff, as the HORDE gang didn't make it in either. Good job, you are definitely one of the elite! :-) As for me and my two submissions, well, erm, *cough* Daniel Convissor wrote: >That's odd. I'm running 7.4.1 and everything is fine on my tests. >Can you please run the 05sequences.phpt test? It's located in >/tests/DB/tests/driver or there about depending on your >installation. > >Instructions are here: http://cvs.php.net/co.php/pear/DB/doc/TESTERS > > Spent some time on this, but on a RH7.3 box with PHP handmade it was not possible for me to figure out. None of the test stuff was installed (and was still hanging around in the source directory trees), and the php executable was nowhere near the source directories either, for obvious reasons ;-) >I trust you've broken down your problem into a simple test script. If >so, email it to me and I'll check it out. > > Here is the function that does the update, and should be easy to understand: function processForm(){ // get the next sequence id for content_archives $id = $this->db->nextId( 'content_archives_id_seq' ); if (DB::isError($id)) { die($id->getMessage()); } // build insert SQL $sql = 'INSERT INTO content_archives (content_id, created, title, content_data, staff_id) VALUES (' . $_POST['content_id'] . ', now(), ' . $this->db->quoteSmart( $_POST['title'] ) . ', ' . $this->db->quoteSmart( $_POST['content'] ) . ', ' . $_POST['staff_id'] . ')'; $res = $this->db->query( $sql ); if (DB::isError($res)) { die($res->getMessage()); } // update content to point to new content_archives.id $sql = 'UPDATE content SET content_archive_id = ' . $id . ' WHERE id = ' . $_POST['content_id']; $res = $this->db->query( $sql ); if (DB::isError($res)) { die($res->getMessage()); } echo "

Content update successful!

\n"; } // ends function processForm Whenever this function is called, the last insert gets an older id from the content_archives_id_seq sequence, most definitely not current. As this is new code that is only accessable on a development site, I am the only person running it at present - so there's no possibility of the sequence getting incremented while the process is underway. What do you think? Am I not using nextID() properly here? Am I missing a commit that needs to happen first? -- Mitch, suddenly annoyed with sequences From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Mon Aug 2 22:02:58 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 22:02:58 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR::DB->nextID problems In-Reply-To: <410EEBB4.8080101@spacemonkeylabs.com> References: <410D540F.80700@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040802231401.GA23741@panix.com> <410EEBB4.8080101@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: <20040803020257.GA29846@panix.com> Hi Mitch: On Mon, Aug 02, 2004 at 09:34:44PM -0400, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > > Congrats for making it to the International PHP Conference final 40! Thanks! I'm looking forward to the trip and meeting many of the people I just know via email and IRC. > Here is the function that does the update, and should be easy to > understand: Before I get into testing things out, did you create the sequence manually somewhere else using createSequence()? If so, are you using the same exact name, including your unnecessarily appending "_seq" to the name as you are here: > $id = $this->db->nextId( 'content_archives_id_seq' ); Similarly, do all calls to nextID() use the same exact name? You see, "_seq" is automatically appended to any name you pass to any of the sequence methods. So, if you call it with "_seq" the name will be "_seq_seq". If neither of those situations are the problem, please be so kind as to send along a self contained test script that both creates and drops the test table plus passes values into the query. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From dmintz at davidmintz.org Mon Aug 2 22:34:59 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 22:34:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Pear Auth options array In-Reply-To: <6579C369-E4D2-11D8-81E5-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> References: <6579C369-E4D2-11D8-81E5-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Matthew Terenzio wrote: > In practice are most users wrapping this into a class of its own and > including that all pages. > > I mean to say that you wouldn't want to edit all db backed pages if the > db host changed right? I can handle abstracting it out. Just wanted to > verify that's the case here. What I have done is require an 'auth.php' on each page that, well, requires it. auth.php in turn loads Auth.php and instantiates an Auth, passing among other things 'dsn'=>DSN in the $options array, where DSN is a constant defined elsewhere. Worksforme. For even less work, you might consider doing this by setting a auto_prepend_file directive in an .htaccess file in the directory in question. HTH --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Tue Aug 3 09:34:16 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 09:34:16 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR::DB->nextID problems In-Reply-To: <20040803020257.GA29846@panix.com> References: <410D540F.80700@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040802231401.GA23741@panix.com> <410EEBB4.8080101@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040803020257.GA29846@panix.com> Message-ID: <410F9458.8020707@spacemonkeylabs.com> Daniel Convissor wrote: >Before I get into testing things out, did you create the sequence >manually somewhere else using createSequence()? If so, are you using >the same exact name, including your unnecessarily appending "_seq" to >the name as you are here: > > > >> $id = $this->db->nextId( 'content_archives_id_seq' ); >> >> The sequence was created automagically by PostgreSQL at table creation time, thanks to the SERIAL column type. I used PGAdminIII to get the exact name of the sequence, which is content_archives_id_seq. >Similarly, do all calls to nextID() use the same exact name? You see, >"_seq" is automatically appended to any name you pass to any of the >sequence methods. So, if you call it with "_seq" the name will be >"_seq_seq". > > So are you saying that nextID() appends the string "_seq" to the sequence name? >If neither of those situations are the problem, please be so kind as >to send along a self contained test script that both creates and drops >the test table plus passes values into the query. > > Okay, first will experiment with the sequence names and check that things are on the up and up. If after that I still have trouble I'll write something up that you can see. -- Mitch From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Tue Aug 3 12:17:51 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 12:17:51 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR::DB->nextID problems In-Reply-To: <410F9458.8020707@spacemonkeylabs.com> References: <410D540F.80700@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040802231401.GA23741@panix.com> <410EEBB4.8080101@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040803020257.GA29846@panix.com> <410F9458.8020707@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: <410FBAAF.4030901@spacemonkeylabs.com> Mitch Pirtle wrote: > Okay, first will experiment with the sequence names and check that > things are on the up and up. If after that I still have trouble I'll > write something up that you can see. Attached is the test script, looks a little nonsensical now that I understand how nextID() works. Here was the misunderstanding, and hopefully you could add something to the docs to clarify? nextID() grabs the next value from the sequence, AND THEN INCREMENTS THAT SEQUENCE. So you cannot get a value from nextID() and then do an insert without specifying that value for the column that the sequence is used for. I created a table that only had two columns, id and sequence_value. I then got the latest sequence value with nextID, and inserted a new row like this: "INSERT INTO test ( sequence_value ) VALUES ( $id )"; Of course I was not thinking that I needed to use $ID for the first column in the table as well, and got two different values on the insert. Basically row 2 got an id of 1, row 4 got an id of 3, and so on. I corrected the SQL to: "INSERT INTO test ( id, sequence_value ) VALUES ( $id, $id )"; And of course everything syncs up properly. The sequence is also now happy, as it isn't being used twice for each row. Providing an example in the docs would be a time saver and avoid unnecessary forehead slapping. ;-) -- Mitch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Tue Aug 3 12:39:14 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:39:14 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR::DB->nextID problems In-Reply-To: <410FBAAF.4030901@spacemonkeylabs.com> References: <410D540F.80700@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040802231401.GA23741@panix.com> <410EEBB4.8080101@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040803020257.GA29846@panix.com> <410F9458.8020707@spacemonkeylabs.com> <410FBAAF.4030901@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: <20040803163914.GA9182@panix.com> Hi Mitch: On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 12:17:51PM -0400, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > > Here was the misunderstanding, and > hopefully you could add something to the docs to clarify? > > nextID() grabs the next value from the sequence, AND THEN INCREMENTS > THAT SEQUENCE. A couple thoughts off the top of my head... I think the behavior may vary between DBMS's. Also, all the system is meant to do is provide a unique number, not necessarily a specific number, so it doesn't really matter what the number is. > So you cannot get a value from nextID() and then do an > insert without specifying that value for the column that the sequence > is used for. A quick look at your test script shows you're using the PostgreSQL's native serial (which is like auto_increment to you MySQL'ers out there) and PEAR DB's sequence data. Use one or the other. Using both leads to the problems you're seeing, let alone, the duplication of information. > Providing an example > in the docs would be a time saver and avoid unnecessary forehead > slapping. ;-) http://pear.php.net/manual/en/package.database.db.intro-sequences.php has an example. Are you saying it's too terse / not real-world enough? --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Tue Aug 3 13:51:28 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 13:51:28 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR::DB->nextID problems In-Reply-To: <20040803163914.GA9182@panix.com> References: <410D540F.80700@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040802231401.GA23741@panix.com> <410EEBB4.8080101@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040803020257.GA29846@panix.com> <410F9458.8020707@spacemonkeylabs.com> <410FBAAF.4030901@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040803163914.GA9182@panix.com> Message-ID: <410FD0A0.8080606@spacemonkeylabs.com> Daniel Convissor wrote: >A couple thoughts off the top of my head... I think the behavior may >vary between DBMS's. Also, all the system is meant to do is provide a >unique number, not necessarily a specific number, so it doesn't really >matter what the number is. > > It does if you are trying to keep that number synced with a sequence LOL Also, do you know if the other relational databases do that too (DB2, Oracle, etc.), or is this a PostgreSQL only thing? >A quick look at your test script shows you're using the PostgreSQL's >native serial (which is like auto_increment to you MySQL'ers out >there) and PEAR DB's sequence data. Use one or the other. Using both >leads to the problems you're seeing, let alone, the duplication of >information. > > As long as you are aware that nextID() will increment the sequence, you are golden. This is what confused me, and when I was writing the test script it dawned on me what was going on. I'm not using PEAR DB's sequence data, but using DB's nextID() to get the current value from the sequence in a PostgreSQL database. I've tested it thoroughly enough to feel confident that this is expected/consistent behaviour (at least on PostgreSQL). >>Providing an example >>in the docs would be a time saver and avoid unnecessary forehead >>slapping. ;-) >> >> >http://pear.php.net/manual/en/package.database.db.intro-sequences.php >has an example. Are you saying it's too terse / not real-world >enough? > > Nope, I love the documentation you have been providing :-) Just would really like a note for PostgreSQL folks out there that if they want to use nextID() to deal with existing sequences, they will need to omit the '_seq' from the sequence name and also use that number for the SERIAL column if they are issuing DML on that column. Maybe a two table example where you use the newly created SERIAL column in one table to update rows in another? I'll supply the text if you want. Or do I ask too much? :-) -- Mitch From webmaster at localnotion.com Tue Aug 3 14:23:58 2004 From: webmaster at localnotion.com (Matthew Terenzio) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 14:23:58 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Pear Auth options array In-Reply-To: References: <6579C369-E4D2-11D8-81E5-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> Message-ID: <492651D1-E57A-11D8-81E5-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> I thought so,. I'm just super frugal when it comes to requires and includes, so I just wanted to check. On Aug 2, 2004, at 10:34 PM, David Mintz wrote: > On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Matthew Terenzio wrote: > >> In practice are most users wrapping this into a class of its own and >> including that all pages. >> >> I mean to say that you wouldn't want to edit all db backed pages if >> the >> db host changed right? I can handle abstracting it out. Just wanted to >> verify that's the case here. > > What I have done is require an 'auth.php' on each page that, well, > requires it. auth.php in turn loads Auth.php and instantiates an Auth, > passing among other things 'dsn'=>DSN in the $options array, where DSN > is > a constant defined elsewhere. Worksforme. For even less work, you might > consider doing this by setting a auto_prepend_file directive in an > .htaccess file in the directory in question. > > HTH > > > --- > David Mintz > http://davidmintz.org/ > > "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org From woodwort at agritec.net Wed Aug 4 13:11:11 2004 From: woodwort at agritec.net (woodwort) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:11:11 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Development environment? Message-ID: <85BB56BE-E640-11D8-9F4D-000A95C5E0B6@agritec.net> I code on OSX and use a $20 program called skEdit. http://www.skti.org html, css, php code completion. very light, simple and fast. free demo too. From Cbielanski at inta.org Wed Aug 4 15:19:33 2004 From: Cbielanski at inta.org (Chris Bielanski) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 15:19:33 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Jamming multi-dimensional arrays in a Query string. Message-ID: Hey gang, I've tried unsuccessfully to make this happen but I haven't got any more time to tinker exhaustively on it so... Anyone have a method for getting a multidimensional array passed on the query string using GET? For now I'm just going to go back to multiple arrays and process them "the hard way". Thanks, Chris Bielanski Web Programmer, International Trademark Association, 1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor New York, NY 10036 +1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence From woodwort at agritec.net Wed Aug 4 15:31:04 2004 From: woodwort at agritec.net (woodwort) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 15:31:04 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Jamming multi-dimensional arrays in a Query string. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Interesting... maybe serialize()? http://us2.php.net/serialize On Aug 4, 2004, at 3:19 PM, Chris Bielanski wrote: > Hey gang, > I've tried unsuccessfully to make this happen but I haven't got any > more > time to tinker exhaustively on it so... > > Anyone have a method for getting a multidimensional array passed on the > query string using GET? > > For now I'm just going to go back to multiple arrays and process them > "the > hard way". > > > Thanks, > Chris Bielanski > Web Programmer, > International Trademark Association, > 1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor > New York, NY 10036 > +1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 > mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org > INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From dcech at phpwerx.net Wed Aug 4 15:32:55 2004 From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 15:32:55 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Jamming multi-dimensional arrays in a Query string. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <411139E7.2040507@phpwerx.net> Chris Bielanski wrote: > Anyone have a method for getting a multidimensional array passed on the > query string using GET? You *can* do it, just use the xxx[][] syntax, like: http://www.example.com/index.php?test[1][hello]=tiger&test[1][test]=testing&test[2][]=a&test[2][]=test would become: $_GET['test'] = array ( '1' => array ( 'hello' => 'tiger', 'test' => 'testing' ), '2' => array ( 'a', 'test' ) ); Technically the [] syntax shouldn't be used, but it in the real world it works and can save a lot of headaches. Dan From Cbielanski at inta.org Wed Aug 4 15:39:17 2004 From: Cbielanski at inta.org (Chris Bielanski) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 15:39:17 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Jamming multi-dimensional arrays in a Query stri ng. Message-ID: Since I'm using PHP4, I don't have the oh-so-snazzy build_query_string(), but for academia's sake, what does *it* do when handed a multi-dim array? Thanks, Chris Bielanski Web Programmer, International Trademark Association, 1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor New York, NY 10036 +1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Cech [mailto:dcech at phpwerx.net] > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 3:33 PM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Jamming multi-dimensional arrays in a Query > string. > > > Chris Bielanski wrote: > > > Anyone have a method for getting a multidimensional array > passed on the > > query string using GET? > > You *can* do it, just use the xxx[][] syntax, like: > > http://www.example.com/index.php?test[1][hello]=tiger&test[1][ test]=testing&test[2][]=a&test[2][]=test would become: $_GET['test'] = array ( '1' => array ( 'hello' => 'tiger', 'test' => 'testing' ), '2' => array ( 'a', 'test' ) ); Technically the [] syntax shouldn't be used, but it in the real world it works and can save a lot of headaches. Dan _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From dcech at phpwerx.net Wed Aug 4 15:51:30 2004 From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 15:51:30 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Jamming multi-dimensional arrays in a Query stri ng. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41113E42.2050103@phpwerx.net> http://php.net/http_build_query If you scroll down there is a function for us php4 users... Dan Chris Bielanski wrote: > Since I'm using PHP4, I don't have the oh-so-snazzy build_query_string(), > but for academia's sake, what does *it* do when handed a multi-dim array? > > > Thanks, > Chris Bielanski > Web Programmer, > International Trademark Association, > 1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor > New York, NY 10036 > +1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 > mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org > INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Dan Cech [mailto:dcech at phpwerx.net] >>Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 3:33 PM >>To: NYPHP Talk >>Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Jamming multi-dimensional arrays in a Query >>string. >> >> >>Chris Bielanski wrote: >> >> >>>Anyone have a method for getting a multidimensional array >> >>passed on the >> >>>query string using GET? >> >>You *can* do it, just use the xxx[][] syntax, like: >> >>http://www.example.com/index.php?test[1][hello]=tiger&test[1][ > > test]=testing&test[2][]=a&test[2][]=test > > would become: > > $_GET['test'] = array ( > '1' => array ( > 'hello' => 'tiger', > 'test' => 'testing' > ), > '2' => array ( > 'a', > 'test' > ) > ); > > Technically the [] syntax shouldn't be used, but it in the real world it > works and can save a lot of headaches. > > Dan > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From joel at tagword.com Wed Aug 4 15:54:36 2004 From: joel at tagword.com (Joel De Gan) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 19:54:36 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Jamming multi-dimensional arrays in a Query string. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1091649276.7504.103.camel@bezel> Honestly, serialize is your best bet here. You can also compress it if need be. -joeldg On Wed, 2004-08-04 at 19:31, woodwort wrote: > Interesting... > > maybe serialize()? http://us2.php.net/serialize > > > > On Aug 4, 2004, at 3:19 PM, Chris Bielanski wrote: > > > Hey gang, > > I've tried unsuccessfully to make this happen but I haven't got any > > more > > time to tinker exhaustively on it so... > > > > Anyone have a method for getting a multidimensional array passed on the > > query string using GET? > > > > For now I'm just going to go back to multiple arrays and process them > > "the > > hard way". > > > > > > Thanks, > > Chris Bielanski > > Web Programmer, > > International Trademark Association, > > 1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor > > New York, NY 10036 > > +1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 > > mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org > > INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Talk > > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org -- joeldg - developer, Intercosmos media group. http://lucifer.intercosmos.net From Cbielanski at inta.org Wed Aug 4 16:07:08 2004 From: Cbielanski at inta.org (Chris Bielanski) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 16:07:08 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Jamming multi-dimensional arrays in a Query stri ng. Message-ID: 10-4. Thanks guys :) Thanks, Chris Bielanski Web Programmer, International Trademark Association, 1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor New York, NY 10036 +1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence > -----Original Message----- > From: Joel De Gan [mailto:joel at tagword.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 3:55 PM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Jamming multi-dimensional arrays in a Query > string. > > > Honestly, serialize is your best bet here. > You can also compress it if need be. > > -joeldg > > On Wed, 2004-08-04 at 19:31, woodwort wrote: > > Interesting... > > > > maybe serialize()? http://us2.php.net/serialize > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 2004, at 3:19 PM, Chris Bielanski wrote: > > > > > Hey gang, > > > I've tried unsuccessfully to make this happen but I > haven't got any > > > more > > > time to tinker exhaustively on it so... > > > > > > Anyone have a method for getting a multidimensional array > passed on the > > > query string using GET? > > > > > > For now I'm just going to go back to multiple arrays and > process them > > > "the > > > hard way". > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Chris Bielanski > > > Web Programmer, > > > International Trademark Association, > > > 1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor > > > New York, NY 10036 > > > +1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 > > > mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org > > > INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New York PHP Talk > > > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Talk > > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.newyorkphp.org > -- > joeldg - developer, Intercosmos media group. > http://lucifer.intercosmos.net > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From jsiegel1 at optonline.net Wed Aug 4 16:14:36 2004 From: jsiegel1 at optonline.net (Jeff Siegel) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 16:14:36 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Jamming multi-dimensional arrays in a Query string. In-Reply-To: <1091649276.7504.103.camel@bezel> References: <1091649276.7504.103.camel@bezel> Message-ID: <411143AC.4030400@optonline.net> The nice thing about serializing is that, when you unserialize it, you'll immediately know if someone mucked with the URL string, i.e., if (!unserialize([$_GET['mystuff'])) echo 'Hey...don't mess with that string!!'; Jeff S. Joel De Gan wrote: > Honestly, serialize is your best bet here. > You can also compress it if need be. > > -joeldg > > On Wed, 2004-08-04 at 19:31, woodwort wrote: > >>Interesting... >> >>maybe serialize()? http://us2.php.net/serialize >> >> >> >>On Aug 4, 2004, at 3:19 PM, Chris Bielanski wrote: >> >> >>>Hey gang, >>>I've tried unsuccessfully to make this happen but I haven't got any >>>more >>>time to tinker exhaustively on it so... >>> >>>Anyone have a method for getting a multidimensional array passed on the >>>query string using GET? >>> >>>For now I'm just going to go back to multiple arrays and process them >>>"the >>>hard way". >>> >>> >>>Thanks, >>>Chris Bielanski >>>Web Programmer, >>>International Trademark Association, >>>1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor >>>New York, NY 10036 >>>+1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 >>>mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org >>>INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New York PHP Talk >>>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >>>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>>http://www.newyorkphp.org >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New York PHP Talk >>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>http://www.newyorkphp.org From webmaster at localnotion.com Wed Aug 4 19:06:41 2004 From: webmaster at localnotion.com (Matthew Terenzio) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 19:06:41 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Development environment? In-Reply-To: <85BB56BE-E640-11D8-9F4D-000A95C5E0B6@agritec.net> References: <85BB56BE-E640-11D8-9F4D-000A95C5E0B6@agritec.net> Message-ID: BBEdit seems to have taken over since I'm now developing on OS X. I am, however, surprised only one person mentioned Emacs. Times sure have changed. Or maybe that never caught fire with the PHP crowd. On Aug 4, 2004, at 1:11 PM, woodwort wrote: > I code on OSX and use a $20 program called skEdit. http://www.skti.org > > html, css, php code completion. very light, simple and fast. free > demo too. > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org From hans at nyphp.com Thu Aug 5 14:27:47 2004 From: hans at nyphp.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 11:27:47 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] FW: Vulnerability in PNG image format (Linux / OSX) Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F87037996B6@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> FYI > The US-CERT announced a vulnerability in libpng, the library that > handles processing for PNG images in many unix-like operating systems. > PNG is a fairly popular image file format which is equivalent to GIF, > and found on many web sites and in some email messages. > > The US-CERT says: > > "A remote attacker could cause an application to crash or potentially > execute arbitrary code by convincing a victim user to visit a malicious > web site or view an email message containing a malformed image." > > At this time Linux and Apple OSX appear to be vulnerable, as do the > Mozilla suite of web browsers and email clients. RedHat has issued a > patch along with some other Linux vendors, but Apple has not yet > released a patch. Be sure to check for updates in the coming hours and > days until this issue is resolved. > > For more details about this vulnerability read the US-CERT's advisory: > > http://www.us-cert.gov/cas/techalerts/TA04-217A.html From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Thu Aug 5 17:29:32 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 17:29:32 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR::DB->nextID problems In-Reply-To: <410FD0A0.8080606@spacemonkeylabs.com> References: <410D540F.80700@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040802231401.GA23741@panix.com> <410EEBB4.8080101@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040803020257.GA29846@panix.com> <410F9458.8020707@spacemonkeylabs.com> <410FBAAF.4030901@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040803163914.GA9182@panix.com> <410FD0A0.8080606@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: <20040805212931.GA25181@panix.com> Sir Mitch: On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 01:51:28PM -0400, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > > Also, do you know if the other relational databases do that too (DB2, > Oracle, etc.), or is this a PostgreSQL only thing? I haven't really paid attention to which DBMS's do what. I just know that it works. I'm out of town, so can't research it for you further at this time. > As long as you are aware that nextID() will increment the sequence, you > are golden. This is what confused me Ah. I'm not sure what in the docs gave you that impression, but I do realize that there is nothing in the docs clearly indicating exactly how it DOES work. Before I left, I updated the warning text in the notes section of the intro. See the new text at http://www.appelsiini.net/~tuupola/php/peardoc2/package.database.db.intro-sequences.html Also put a link to it on all of the sequence methods's pages. I'll try to further clarify how things work when I get back. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Thu Aug 5 21:17:26 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 21:17:26 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR::DB->nextID problems In-Reply-To: <20040805212931.GA25181@panix.com> References: <410D540F.80700@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040802231401.GA23741@panix.com> <410EEBB4.8080101@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040803020257.GA29846@panix.com> <410F9458.8020707@spacemonkeylabs.com> <410FBAAF.4030901@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040803163914.GA9182@panix.com> <410FD0A0.8080606@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040805212931.GA25181@panix.com> Message-ID: <4112DC26.5080500@spacemonkeylabs.com> Daniel Convissor wrote: >Sir Mitch: > >On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 01:51:28PM -0400, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > > >>Also, do you know if the other relational databases do that too (DB2, >>Oracle, etc.), or is this a PostgreSQL only thing? >> >> > >I haven't really paid attention to which DBMS's do what. I just know that >it works. I'm out of town, so can't research it for you further at this >time. > > Perhaps this is me remembering things from long ago (probably in different environments even), and they have since all evolved... But I do vaguely remember when you fetched the current value of a sequence, some databases automatically incremented the value while others did not; and this had to do with some databases allowing you to get the current value of a sequence without issuing any DML, and others would automatically increment just by you fetching the current value. *shrug* >>As long as you are aware that nextID() will increment the sequence, you >>are golden. This is what confused me >> >> > >Ah. I'm not sure what in the docs gave you that impression, but I do >realize that there is nothing in the docs clearly indicating exactly how >it DOES work. Before I left, I updated the warning text in the notes >section of the intro. See the new text at >http://www.appelsiini.net/~tuupola/php/peardoc2/package.database.db.intro-sequences.html >Also put a link to it on all of the sequence methods's pages. > > BTW there was nothing in your docs that led me astray, I had assumed that before a COMMIT or DML statement you would have the same value in the sequence. Again, this may be historical influences, and therefore irrelevant ;-) I like this a lot, but wonder why you wouldn't try to use the sequences that were already in the database? If I had a PostgreSQL database that had a PHP website and wxPython client, then the sequence would obviously belong in the database; and having PHP keep it's own 'PHP-only' sequence alongside the existing one is not a logical choice, no? Or were there other technical issues that forced you to go with the "%s_seq" route? Regardless, have safe travels and thanks for IMHO PEAR's greatest asset! ;-) -- Mitch From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Thu Aug 5 21:45:04 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 21:45:04 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] question about pruning code Message-ID: <4112E2A0.1060900@spacemonkeylabs.com> Hi list, I'm looking at one particularly big script that I would like to prune to several includes, but wondering what performance issues would arise... Basically I have one script that has become the 'controller' for the rest of the side (thanks to mod_rewrite), and I want to prune this initial file down so it is not such a big beast. However I fear that performance could suffer as a result. Any opinions on tackling such a problem? -- Mitch From adam at trachtenberg.com Fri Aug 6 02:35:45 2004 From: adam at trachtenberg.com (Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 02:35:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] question about pruning code In-Reply-To: <4112E2A0.1060900@spacemonkeylabs.com> References: <4112E2A0.1060900@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Aug 2004, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > Basically I have one script that has become the 'controller' for the > rest of the side (thanks to mod_rewrite), and I want to prune this > initial file down so it is not such a big beast. However I fear > that performance could suffer as a result. Performance will be worse. How worse is open to discussion. It will be better on Linux than FreeBSD, at least from what I've read from Rasmus w/r/t Yahoo! Depending on load, it may be barely noticeable, particularly if you have well-designed include paths. You could easily mimic performance by adding in a few empty includes and benchmarking it. That'll let you test the performance hit without bothering to refactor the code. -adam -- adam at trachtenberg.com author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook" avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today! From ashaw at iifwp.org Fri Aug 6 15:14:06 2004 From: ashaw at iifwp.org (Allen Shaw) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:14:06 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] email quota hander in PHP Message-ID: <018401c47be9$8c970380$6401a8c0@iifwp.local> Hi Folks, Anybody here want to try and talk me out of writing a PHP script to help me trim down over-quota mailboxes on my server? Somehow I pick up the impression from some people that PHP is just not meant for this kind of thing, and that I'd be better off going with python or perl. Since I'm much more familiar with PHP than most anything else, that seems a lot more convenient. The background is that I've been looking for some ways to manage email quotas per user on my server, something that's a little more flexible than procmail's "bounce anything over-quota" methods. Not having found anything existing, I've started to hack something together in PHP that would get called daily by cron and then implement a certain policy on over-quota mbox files (basically, delete oldest messages one-by-one until mbox size is acceptable, but never delete anything less than x days old). I've also got access to something in Python which I could (extensively) modify -- but I don't look forward to that. Anybody in NYPHP-land want to issue a word of warning before I go this way? Thanks, Allen -- =========================================================== Allen Shaw ashaw at iifwp.org IIFWP Data and 914.631.1331 x.106 IT Services http://www.iifwp.org From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Fri Aug 6 16:54:15 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:54:15 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] question about pruning code In-Reply-To: <4112E2A0.1060900@spacemonkeylabs.com> References: <4112E2A0.1060900@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: <20040806205415.GA20678@panix.com> Mitch: To expand upon what Adam said, include performance is better when... Your include_path leads directly to the files in question or you include using a full path. The files are at the root of the file system or as close to there as possible. Steps have been, and will be, taken to improve the Zend engine's performance when doing includes. They should be appearing in future releases. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From php at haberco.com Fri Aug 6 16:57:16 2004 From: php at haberco.com (Eddie Haber) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 16:57:16 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] question about pruning code In-Reply-To: <4112E2A0.1060900@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: I for one think code readability and organization are more important than shaving one ten-thousandth of a second off your load time. Any compiled at run-time language served over a network is going to have variable serve times, the margin of which, is probably greater than the server load incurred by an include statement. Optimization and performance are important. And profiling is a necessity, especially for spotting sluggish parts of an app. But I think people can become overly consumed with performance. Your best bet for performance might be to first look at code architecture. And according to "extreme programming" you should profile first before optimizing. See if it actually is those pesky "includes" or maybe a poorly written function that's used 1,000 times during execution of your script. I hope this doesn't sound persnickety, but if we start worrying about using "includes" we'll never be able to write any serious PHP programs. E On 8/5/04 9:45 PM, "Mitch Pirtle" wrote: > Hi list, > > I'm looking at one particularly big script that I would like to prune to > several includes, but wondering what performance issues would arise... > > Basically I have one script that has become the 'controller' for the > rest of the side (thanks to mod_rewrite), and I want to prune this > initial file down so it is not such a big beast. However I fear that > performance could suffer as a result. > > Any opinions on tackling such a problem? > > -- Mitch > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Fri Aug 6 16:59:08 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:59:08 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] question about pruning code In-Reply-To: <4112E2A0.1060900@spacemonkeylabs.com> References: <4112E2A0.1060900@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: <20040806205908.GB20678@panix.com> Ugh, this "broadband" wireless is wretchedly slow. The lag time between keyboard input and reponse makes me feel like I'm using a 2400 baud modem. So, I meant also to say that unless super performance is an issue, maintainability should weigh heavier in your mind than the performance degredation you'll experience. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From jlacey at att.net Fri Aug 6 17:37:58 2004 From: jlacey at att.net (John Lacey) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 15:37:58 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] question about pruning code In-Reply-To: <20040806205908.GB20678@panix.com> References: <4112E2A0.1060900@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040806205908.GB20678@panix.com> Message-ID: <4113FA36.7010305@att.net> Daniel Convissor wrote: > Ugh, this "broadband" wireless is wretchedly slow. The lag time between > keyboard input and reponse makes me feel like I'm using a 2400 baud modem. > > So, I meant also to say that unless super performance is an issue, > maintainability should weigh heavier in your mind than the performance > degredation you'll experience. > > --Dan > hell, there was a time when 2400 baud was smokin' :) John From webmaster at jaymax.com Sat Aug 7 15:37:19 2004 From: webmaster at jaymax.com (Joseph E. Maxwell) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 12:37:19 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP installation problems Message-ID: <41152F6F.2080303@jaymax.com> Hello, I've installed php4, "I think" on a FreeBSD - i386 platform w/ FreeBSD 4.9 O/S installed and running apache_1.3.31, however I think I have an Apache problem but need to check on php4 setup & syntax uname -a ===> 4.9-STABLE FreeBSD 4.9-STABLE #0: Wed Nov 12 17:41:01 PST 2003 .........:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/STANDARD i386 php -v ===> PHP 4.3.6 (cgi-fcgi) (built: Jun 21 2004 00:43:24) Copyright (c) 1997-2004 The PHP Group Zend Engine v1.3.0, Copyright (c) 1998-2004 Zend Technologies Doesn't this imply that php is built & installed correctly ____________________________ Created a file phpinfo.php cat phpinfo.php ===> http://www.mydomain.com/phpinfo.php ===> nothing except the options to download the file Now, php -i ===> the html coded file with the expected details of the phpinfo.php, but nothing on Apache and I thought there was or should be The problems seems to reside in the Apache httpd.conf file. httpd -l ===> Compiled-in modules: http_core.c mod_env.c mod_log_config.c mod_mime.c mod_negotiation.c mod_status.c mod_include.c mod_autoindex.c mod_dir.c mod_cgi.c mod_asis.c mod_imap.c mod_actions.c mod_speling.c mod_userdir.c mod_alias.c mod_rewrite.c mod_access.c mod_auth.c mod_auth_dbm.c mod_so.c mod_setenvif.c mod_ssl.c suexec: disabled; invalid wrapper /usr/local/apache/bin/suexec don't see mod_php4.c or 3 for that matter In the httpd.conf file sed -n 395,414p httpd.conf ===> DirectoryIndex index.html index.php index.php3 DirectoryIndex index.html index.php3 DirectoryIndex index.html index.php index.php3 DirectoryIndex index.html grep php4 httpd.conf ===> LoadModule php4_module /usr/local/libexec/apache/libphp4.so AddType application/x-httpd-php .php .php4 AddType application/x-httpd-php4 .php .php4 AddType application/x-httpd-php-source .phps .php4s now if I include a Addmodule mod_php4.c apachectll configtest ===> warning that mod_php is already installed ?? ___________________________________________________ redoing the installation after removing the configure-cache make with ./configure --with-mysql --with-apxs=/usr/local/apache/bin/apxs --enable-versioning ===> ........ Configuring SAPI modules checking for AOLserver support... no checking for Apache 1.x module support via DSO through APXS... Sorry, I was not able to successfully run APXS. Possible reasons: 1. Perl is not installed; 2. Apache was not compiled with DSO support (--enable-module=so); 3. 'apxs' is not in your path. Try to use --with-apxs=/path/to/apxs The output of /usr/local/apache/bin/apxs follows apxs:Error: @sbindir@/httpd not found or not executable configure: error: Aborting ........ Perl is installed perl -v This is perl, v5.8.2 httpd -l Compiled-in modules: http_core.c ........ ........ mod_so.c mod_setenvif.c mod_ssl.cmodule apxs is installed version ( not from source tarball) ls -l /usr/local/apache/bin/apxs -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 24624 Jun 21 01:23 /usr/local/apache/bin/apxs* and is executible could not interpret the error message : @sbindir@/httpd not found or not executable Hope someone can provide some guidance Thanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From webmaster at localnotion.com Sun Aug 8 13:55:23 2004 From: webmaster at localnotion.com (Matthew Terenzio) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 13:55:23 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Combining Auth with DB Message-ID: <1F399F72-E964-11D8-8FAE-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> If i'm using Auth with DB on top of a page and I need DB access for other objects on the page, am I duplicating the connection unnecessarily. In other words, can they both use the same handle and how might I achieve that. Matt terenzio From webmaster at localnotion.com Sun Aug 8 22:12:21 2004 From: webmaster at localnotion.com (Matthew Terenzio) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 22:12:21 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Auth on Mac OS X Message-ID: <8C236B0A-E9A9-11D8-8CA0-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> My sessions using AUTH don't seem to stick with any browser on my Mac. Windows works fine. : ( From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Sun Aug 8 23:10:34 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 23:10:34 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Pathetic Hacker Parade, vol 260 Message-ID: <20040809031034.GA5943@panix.com> Hi Boys and Girls (there HAS to be SOME girls on this list, RIGHT???): Here are the vulnerabilities from last week's SecurityFocus newsletter, number 260. The pathetic hackers who consider themselves programmers have done it again. EasyWeb FileManager Module Directory Traversal Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10792 PostNuke Install Script Administrator Password Disclosure Vu... http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10793 EasyIns Stadtportal Site Parameter Remote File Include Vulne... http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10795 PostNuke Reviews Module Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10802 Invision Power Board Index.php Query String Cross-Site Scrip... http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10804 OpenDocMan Access Control Bypass Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10807 phpMyFAQ Image Manager Authentication Bypass Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10813 AntiBoard Multiple Input Validation Vulnerabilities http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10821 Phorum Search Script Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10822 Verylost LostBook Message Entry HTML Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10825 JAWS ControlPanel.PHP SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10826 PowerPortal Private Message HTML Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10835 FusionPHP Fusion News Administrator Command Execution Vulner... http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10836 -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Sun Aug 8 23:17:57 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 23:17:57 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR::DB->nextID problems In-Reply-To: <4112DC26.5080500@spacemonkeylabs.com> References: <410D540F.80700@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040802231401.GA23741@panix.com> <410EEBB4.8080101@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040803020257.GA29846@panix.com> <410F9458.8020707@spacemonkeylabs.com> <410FBAAF.4030901@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040803163914.GA9182@panix.com> <410FD0A0.8080606@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040805212931.GA25181@panix.com> <4112DC26.5080500@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: <20040809031757.GA7411@panix.com> On Thu, Aug 05, 2004 at 09:17:26PM -0400, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > > I like this a lot, but wonder why you wouldn't try to use the sequences > that were already in the database? To avoid the confusion we're seeing here. :) > If I had a PostgreSQL database that > had a PHP website and wxPython client, then the sequence would > obviously belong in the database; and having PHP keep it's own > 'PHP-only' sequence alongside the existing one is not a logical choice, > no? In a situation like that, yeah. > Or were there other technical issues that forced you to go with the > "%s_seq" route? I didn't do it. But, I'm pretty sure it was to avoid name space conflicts between sequences and tables. > Regardless, have safe travels and thanks for IMHO PEAR's greatest > asset! ;-) Next time we meet you'll have to put your beer where your mouth is. Or should I say, "you have to put some beer where MY mouth is?" You BETTER show up at the next meeting! :) --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Mon Aug 9 00:34:43 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 00:34:43 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR::DB->nextID problems In-Reply-To: <20040809031757.GA7411@panix.com> References: <410D540F.80700@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040802231401.GA23741@panix.com> <410EEBB4.8080101@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040803020257.GA29846@panix.com> <410F9458.8020707@spacemonkeylabs.com> <410FBAAF.4030901@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040803163914.GA9182@panix.com> <410FD0A0.8080606@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040805212931.GA25181@panix.com> <4112DC26.5080500@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040809031757.GA7411@panix.com> Message-ID: <4116FEE3.3010805@spacemonkeylabs.com> Daniel Convissor wrote: >>Or were there other technical issues that forced you to go with the >>"%s_seq" route? >> >> > >I didn't do it. But, I'm pretty sure it was to avoid >name space conflicts between sequences and tables. > > Hmm, I wonder what it would take to 'fix' this? Is this something that needs to be looked at? Or is this just a personal thing ;-) >>Regardless, have safe travels and thanks for IMHO PEAR's greatest >>asset! ;-) >> >> > >Next time we meet you'll have to put your beer where your mouth is. >Or should I say, "you have to put some beer where MY mouth is?" > >You BETTER show up at the next meeting! > > Okay, I certainly owe you a beer. I'm in! -- Mitch From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Mon Aug 9 00:54:53 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 00:54:53 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR::DB->nextID problems In-Reply-To: <4116FEE3.3010805@spacemonkeylabs.com> References: <410EEBB4.8080101@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040803020257.GA29846@panix.com> <410F9458.8020707@spacemonkeylabs.com> <410FBAAF.4030901@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040803163914.GA9182@panix.com> <410FD0A0.8080606@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040805212931.GA25181@panix.com> <4112DC26.5080500@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040809031757.GA7411@panix.com> <4116FEE3.3010805@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: <20040809045453.GA1006@panix.com> Hey Mitch: On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 12:34:43AM -0400, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > Daniel Convissor wrote: > > >>Or were there other technical issues that forced you to go with the > >>"%s_seq" route? > > Hmm, I wonder what it would take to 'fix' this? Is this something that > needs to be looked at? Or is this just a personal thing ;-) Nothing needs to be fixed. If you want to access a specific DBMS sequence via DB's nextID() method, you'll have to change the seqname_format option before calling nextID(). > Okay, I certainly owe you a beer. I'm in! Bless you fine sir, --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From dmintz at davidmintz.org Mon Aug 9 09:46:33 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:46:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Combining Auth with DB In-Reply-To: <1F399F72-E964-11D8-8FAE-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> References: <1F399F72-E964-11D8-8FAE-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Aug 2004, Matthew Terenzio wrote: > If i'm using Auth with DB on top of a page and I need DB access for > other objects on the page, am I duplicating the connection > unnecessarily. In other words, can they both use the same handle and > how might I achieve that. if (! is_null($a->storage->db)) { $db =& $a->storage->db; //echo "got a " . get_class($db)." from my Auth object (-:
"; } else { $db = DB::connect(DSN); } This might not be PHP5-proof but for now, worksforme. HTH --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From Kbedi at inta.org Mon Aug 9 10:56:43 2004 From: Kbedi at inta.org (Kshitij Bedi) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:56:43 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP-Apache 2.0.48 Session Message-ID: For some reason the session in my PHP app dies when I open a page in a new window using (JavaScript: window.open()). Server Config: Windows 2k; Apache 2.0.48;PHP 4.3.4; MySql 4.0.18; This same app works fine on my development environment: Windows 2K; IIS 5.0; PHP 4.3.7; Mysql 4.0.18; In ideas why? From tgales at tgaconnect.com Mon Aug 9 11:28:24 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:28:24 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP-Apache 2.0.48 Session In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001401c47e25$832c1310$e98d3818@oberon1> Kshitij Bedi writes: > For some reason the session in my PHP app dies when I open a > page in a new window using (JavaScript: window.open()). > Server Config: Windows 2k; Apache 2.0.48;PHP 4.3.4; MySql 4.0.18; > > This same app works fine on my development environment: > Windows 2K; IIS 5.0; PHP 4.3.7; Mysql 4.0.18; > > In ideas why? what is your 'session.save_path' in the default ini (php.ini-dist) it is usually blank -- like so: [Session] ; Handler used to store/retrieve data. session.save_handler = files Maybe adding something like: session.save_path="C:\tmp" will help (watch the permissions on the actual directory you use!!!) T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Mon Aug 9 11:41:32 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:41:32 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP-Apache 2.0.48 Session In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040809154132.GB3100@panix.com> On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 10:56:43AM -0400, Kshitij Bedi wrote: > For some reason the session in my PHP app dies when I open a page > in a new > window using (JavaScript: window.open()). Oh, that's karma biting you in the arse for using JavaScrap. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From tom at supertom.com Mon Aug 9 11:52:55 2004 From: tom at supertom.com (Tom) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 11:52:55 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Project Management Software? Message-ID: <1092066774.32499.1.camel@tmelendez.int.bascom.com> Hey Folks, I'm looking for suggestions/opinions about web-based project management software. We've been using dotProject for quite a while, and it is OK, but it is still young and a little buggy. Just thought I would see what everyone else was using. (Or, if anyone is using dotProject regularly, I have some questions that I'd like to have answered - their forums have not been too responsive.) Anyone have any thoughts/suggestions? Commercial or OS is fine, makes no difference whether I host it or not. Also, this is for internal development, so billing features, and client access are not a concern. Thanks for the feeback, Tom www.liphp.org From mwithington at PLMresearch.com Mon Aug 9 11:56:17 2004 From: mwithington at PLMresearch.com (Mark Withington) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:56:17 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Project Management Software? Message-ID: <1F3CD8DDFB6A9B4C9B8DD06E4A7DE358B3190D@network.PLMresearch.com> We use PhpCollab v2.1 (think there's a branch out there also). Pretty nice. -------------------------- Mark L. Withington PLMresearch "eBusiness for the Midsize Enterprise" PO Box 1354 Plymouth, MA 02362 o: 800-310-3992 f: 508-746-4973 v: 508-746-2383 m: 508-801-0181 http://www.PLMresearch.com Netscape/AOL/MSN IM: PLMresearch mwithington at plmresearch.com Public Key: http://www.PLMresearch.com/keys/MLW_public_key.asc Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Tom Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:53 AM To: talk at lists.nyphp.org Subject: [nycphp-talk] Project Management Software? Hey Folks, I'm looking for suggestions/opinions about web-based project management software. We've been using dotProject for quite a while, and it is OK, but it is still young and a little buggy. Just thought I would see what everyone else was using. (Or, if anyone is using dotProject regularly, I have some questions that I'd like to have answered - their forums have not been too responsive.) Anyone have any thoughts/suggestions? Commercial or OS is fine, makes no difference whether I host it or not. Also, this is for internal development, so billing features, and client access are not a concern. Thanks for the feeback, Tom www.liphp.org _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From yury at heavenspa.com Mon Aug 9 11:58:52 2004 From: yury at heavenspa.com (Yury Rush) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:58:52 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Project Management Software? In-Reply-To: <1092066774.32499.1.camel@tmelendez.int.bascom.com> Message-ID: I've heard some nice things about Copper. http://www.copperproject.com/ regards yury http://www.photoshoptalk.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Tom Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 10:53 AM To: talk at lists.nyphp.org Subject: [nycphp-talk] Project Management Software? Hey Folks, I'm looking for suggestions/opinions about web-based project management software. We've been using dotProject for quite a while, and it is OK, but it is still young and a little buggy. Just thought I would see what everyone else was using. (Or, if anyone is using dotProject regularly, I have some questions that I'd like to have answered - their forums have not been too responsive.) Anyone have any thoughts/suggestions? Commercial or OS is fine, makes no difference whether I host it or not. Also, this is for internal development, so billing features, and client access are not a concern. Thanks for the feeback, Tom www.liphp.org _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From tgales at tgaconnect.com Mon Aug 9 12:10:38 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 12:10:38 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Project Management Software? In-Reply-To: <1F3CD8DDFB6A9B4C9B8DD06E4A7DE358B3190D@network.PLMresearch.com> Message-ID: <001501c47e2b$6a8103b0$e98d3818@oberon1> Mark Withington writes: > > We use PhpCollab v2.1 (think there's a branch out there > also). Pretty nice. > Here is a thread about (some) branches of PhpCollab: http://phpcollab.sourceforge.net/viewtopic.php?p=5621 T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com Mon Aug 9 12:40:57 2004 From: sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 12:40:57 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Project Management Software? In-Reply-To: <1092066774.32499.1.camel@tmelendez.int.bascom.com> References: <1092066774.32499.1.camel@tmelendez.int.bascom.com> Message-ID: <6925-12541@sneakemail.com> Tom tom-at-supertom.com |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: >Hey Folks, > >I'm looking for suggestions/opinions about web-based project management >software. We've been using dotProject for quite a while, and it is OK, >but it is still young and a little buggy. Just thought I would see what >everyone else was using. (Or, if anyone is using dotProject regularly, >I have some questions that I'd like to have answered - their forums have >not been too responsive.) > >Anyone have any thoughts/suggestions? Commercial or OS is fine, makes >no difference whether I host it or not. Also, this is for internal >development, so billing features, and client access are not a concern. > >Thanks for the feeback, > >Tom >www.liphp.org > > >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > I have always liked Project KickStart http://www.projectkickstart.com/ as a supplement to whatever project management sw I use. It may be a bit bloated or outdated at this point (I haven't looked for over a year), but basically it's a (Windows only) gui for capturing project intent at the earliest stage. It walks you (and your team, hopefully) through the goal defining, milestones, brainstorming, etc and then kicks out a basic datafile suitable for import into popular PM software. It can do basic charting as well. I find it an excellent tool to project during a project kick-start meeting . It helps builds the team, align the objectives, and in no small way helps garner a bit of authority as PM (once they see the effectivenes of good PM). The company has also been very accommodating when I have asked for lower cost licensing to proviude every team member with a copy (BTW, they don't usually use it, but they do look at it and gain additional respect for the management steps I do). Personally I do my PM by paying attention to details, and using tools, not PM software. Kickstart plus my spreadsheets and calendar are all I need... the big software usually gets in the way of actual analysis, IMHO, and takes too much time and attention away from managing the project. -=john andrews From tom at supertom.com Mon Aug 9 13:51:26 2004 From: tom at supertom.com (Tom Melendez) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 13:51:26 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Project Management Software? In-Reply-To: <6925-12541@sneakemail.com> References: <1092066774.32499.1.camel@tmelendez.int.bascom.com> <6925-12541@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <1092073886.32549.12.camel@tmelendez.int.bascom.com> Thanks everyone for the suggestions - I will check these out now. I agree with you, John, and "managing" the software has proven to be more of a pain than necessary. The main problem we are having with dotProject is the reporting features, and some of the calculations - the numbers that we need to supply to management. Hopefully some of these other products prove to be better. Thanks again! Tom On Mon, 2004-08-09 at 12:40, inforequest wrote: > Tom tom-at-supertom.com |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: > > >Hey Folks, > > > >I'm looking for suggestions/opinions about web-based project management > >software. We've been using dotProject for quite a while, and it is OK, > >but it is still young and a little buggy. Just thought I would see what > >everyone else was using. (Or, if anyone is using dotProject regularly, > >I have some questions that I'd like to have answered - their forums have > >not been too responsive.) > > > >Anyone have any thoughts/suggestions? Commercial or OS is fine, makes > >no difference whether I host it or not. Also, this is for internal > >development, so billing features, and client access are not a concern. > > > >Thanks for the feeback, > > > >Tom > >www.liphp.org > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >New York PHP Talk > >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > >http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > > > > > I have always liked Project KickStart http://www.projectkickstart.com/ > as a supplement to whatever project management sw I use. It may be a bit > bloated or outdated at this point (I haven't looked for over a year), > but basically it's a (Windows only) gui for capturing project intent at > the earliest stage. It walks you (and your team, hopefully) through the > goal defining, milestones, brainstorming, etc and then kicks out a > basic datafile suitable for import into popular PM software. It can do > basic charting as well. > > I find it an excellent tool to project during a project kick-start > meeting . It helps builds the team, align the objectives, and in no > small way helps garner a bit of authority as PM (once they see the > effectivenes of good PM). The company has also been very accommodating > when I have asked for lower cost licensing to proviude every team member > with a copy (BTW, they don't usually use it, but they do look at it and > gain additional respect for the management steps I do). > > Personally I do my PM by paying attention to details, and using tools, > not PM software. Kickstart plus my spreadsheets and calendar are all I > need... the big software usually gets in the way of actual analysis, > IMHO, and takes too much time and attention away from managing the project. > > -=john andrews > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org -- ==== ======================== Tom Melendez Senior Software Developer BASCOM Global Internet Services, Inc. Phone : 631-434-6600 Fax : 631-434-7800 Email : tmelendez at bascom.com Web : http://www.bascom.com ======================== From patterson at computer.org Mon Aug 9 14:28:20 2004 From: patterson at computer.org (Bill Patterson) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 14:28:20 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] volunteer opportunity Message-ID: <4117C244.9040107@computer.org> Here is an announcement I received, through the Philadelphia Linux Users Group, indirectly from Moveon.org. This announcement may be of interest to NYPHPers. --Bill The non-partisan Verified Voting Foundation is working with other voter protection groups to make sure every vote is counted, focusing its efforts on the new electronic voting terminals we're all concerned about. Their program is called TechWatch, and it will help reduce the risk that votes will be lost or miscounted by these machines and other technology. Please volunteer for TechWatch at: http://www.verifiedvoting.org/techwatch/ Geeks who sign up with TechWatch will be able to help out both beforehand and on Election Day. You'll find out what kind of machines are being used, how they are tested, and how to tell if they are being used properly. The responsibilities include: * Observing and documenting the Logic & Accuracy testing of voting technology by election officials before Election Day; * Monitoring the polls on Election Day (assigned to a single polling place or central election office); * Reporting incidents on Election Day (dispatched to particular polling places when trouble is indicated). With your technical expertise, you can help document election problems for follow-on litigation and policymaking in a way that most poll watchers cannot. More than 500 technologists have already volunteered, but it will take thousands of TechWatch Geeks to cover priority states and key counties, starting with the Florida primary on August 31 and continuing through to the November 2 general election. Also, if you like to code, Verified Voting Foundation has "an urgent need for php programmers who want to assist with development of an open-source Election Incident Reporting system from now until September." You can also sign up to help with this project at their web page. Please sign up today, at: http://www.verifiedvoting.org/techwatch/ Thank you. Sincerely, - Peter Schurman MoveOn.org August 3, 2004 P.S.: Paul Krugman of the New York Times wrote an important column on this issue on July 27: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/27/opinion/27krug.html From nyphp at enobrev.com Mon Aug 9 16:33:33 2004 From: nyphp at enobrev.com (Mark Armendariz) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 16:33:33 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] with-regex=system Message-ID: <20040809203339.B64B8A8658@virtu.nyphp.org> Can anyone tell me what with-regex=system? I've just moved a client site from my server to theirs and my regex patterns that I've been using for, well, quite a while seem to be throwing errors now. The php.ini shows: --with-regex=system Which I've never seen before. I figure this is my brick wall. Anyone? Thanks! Mark Armendariz From sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com Mon Aug 9 18:14:41 2004 From: sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 18:14:41 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] volunteer opportunity In-Reply-To: <4117C244.9040107@computer.org> References: <4117C244.9040107@computer.org> Message-ID: <10943-66968@sneakemail.com> Normally I would not support "political" posts to this list, but I attended a talk about the voting improprieties discovered during the investigations of the past year. Most of them were *not* technical but social engineering maneuvers which led to uncounted votes, mistakes, and breaks in the chain of authority which prevented accountability. It was recommended that people who can spot loopholes and irregularities volunteer to man polling places, participate in local community projects surrounding the voting process, etc. so that the foxes aren't the only ones guarding the chicken koop. It is widely acknowledged that the people with those skillz are the techies like us. I haven't looked at this particular group, but if it is simply about being involved and aware for the sake of due process, based on what I have seen it is an excellent idea. -=john andrews Bill Patterson patterson-at-computer.org |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: > Here is an announcement I received, through the Philadelphia Linux > Users Group, indirectly from Moveon.org. This announcement may be of > interest to NYPHPers. --Bill > > > > The non-partisan Verified Voting Foundation is working with other > voter protection groups to make sure every vote is counted, > focusing its efforts on the new electronic voting terminals we're > all concerned about. > > Their program is called TechWatch, and it will help reduce the risk > that votes will be lost or miscounted by these machines and other > technology. > > Please volunteer for TechWatch at: > > http://www.verifiedvoting.org/techwatch/ > > Geeks who sign up with TechWatch will be able to help out both > beforehand and on Election Day. You'll find out what kind of machines > are being used, how they are tested, and how to tell if they are being > used properly. The responsibilities include: > > * Observing and documenting the Logic & Accuracy testing of > voting technology by election officials before Election Day; > > * Monitoring the polls on Election Day (assigned to a single > polling place or central election office); > > * Reporting incidents on Election Day (dispatched to particular > polling places when trouble is indicated). > > With your technical expertise, you can help document election > problems for follow-on litigation and policymaking in a way > that most poll watchers cannot. > > More than 500 technologists have already volunteered, but it will take > thousands of TechWatch Geeks to cover priority states and key > counties, starting with the Florida primary on August 31 and > continuing through to the November 2 general election. > > Also, if you like to code, Verified Voting Foundation has "an urgent > need for php programmers who want to assist with development of an > open-source Election Incident Reporting system from now until > September." You can also sign up to help with this project at > their web page. > > Please sign up today, at: > > http://www.verifiedvoting.org/techwatch/ > > Thank you. > > Sincerely, > > - Peter Schurman > MoveOn.org > August 3, 2004 > > P.S.: Paul Krugman of the New York Times wrote an important > column on this issue on July 27: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/27/opinion/27krug.html > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From michael.southwell at nyphp.org Mon Aug 9 18:19:41 2004 From: michael.southwell at nyphp.org (Michael Southwell) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 18:19:41 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] volunteer opportunity In-Reply-To: <10943-66968@sneakemail.com> References: <4117C244.9040107@computer.org> <10943-66968@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040809181814.01fcaec0@mail.optonline.net> At 06:14 PM 8/9/2004, you wrote: >Normally I would not support "political" posts to this list, The question of whether this post should be permitted has been discussed by the Board, which approved its posting (in part precisely because it is non-partisan). >but I attended a talk about the voting improprieties discovered during the >investigations of the past year. Most of them were *not* technical but >social engineering maneuvers which led to uncounted votes, mistakes, and >breaks in the chain of authority which prevented accountability. It was >recommended that people who can spot loopholes and irregularities >volunteer to man polling places, participate in local community projects >surrounding the voting process, etc. so that the foxes aren't the only >ones guarding the chicken koop. > >It is widely acknowledged that the people with those skillz are the >techies like us. > >I haven't looked at this particular group, but if it is simply about being >involved and aware for the sake of due process, based on what I have seen >it is an excellent idea. > >-=john andrews > > > > >Bill Patterson patterson-at-computer.org |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: > >>Here is an announcement I received, through the Philadelphia Linux Users >>Group, indirectly from Moveon.org. This announcement may be of interest >>to NYPHPers. --Bill >> >> >> >>The non-partisan Verified Voting Foundation is working with other >>voter protection groups to make sure every vote is counted, >>focusing its efforts on the new electronic voting terminals we're >>all concerned about. >> >>Their program is called TechWatch, and it will help reduce the risk >>that votes will be lost or miscounted by these machines and other >>technology. >> >>Please volunteer for TechWatch at: >> >>http://www.verifiedvoting.org/techwatch/ >> >>Geeks who sign up with TechWatch will be able to help out both beforehand >>and on Election Day. You'll find out what kind of machines are being >>used, how they are tested, and how to tell if they are being used >>properly. The responsibilities include: >> >>* Observing and documenting the Logic & Accuracy testing of >>voting technology by election officials before Election Day; >> >>* Monitoring the polls on Election Day (assigned to a single >>polling place or central election office); >> >>* Reporting incidents on Election Day (dispatched to particular >>polling places when trouble is indicated). >> >>With your technical expertise, you can help document election >>problems for follow-on litigation and policymaking in a way >>that most poll watchers cannot. >> >>More than 500 technologists have already volunteered, but it will take >>thousands of TechWatch Geeks to cover priority states and key counties, >>starting with the Florida primary on August 31 and continuing through to >>the November 2 general election. >> >>Also, if you like to code, Verified Voting Foundation has "an urgent need >>for php programmers who want to assist with development of an open-source >>Election Incident Reporting system from now until September." You can >>also sign up to help with this project at >>their web page. >> >>Please sign up today, at: >> >>http://www.verifiedvoting.org/techwatch/ >> >>Thank you. >> >>Sincerely, >> >>- Peter Schurman >>MoveOn.org >>August 3, 2004 >> >>P.S.: Paul Krugman of the New York Times wrote an important >>column on this issue on July 27: >> >>http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/27/opinion/27krug.html >>_______________________________________________ >>New York PHP Talk >>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>http://www.newyorkphp.org > >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org Michael Southwell VP, Education Department NYPHP michael.southwell at nyphp.org From webmaster at localnotion.com Mon Aug 9 18:24:53 2004 From: webmaster at localnotion.com (Matthew Terenzio) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 18:24:53 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Auth sessions Message-ID: I'm using PHP 5, postgresql and Pear Auth. if I use a table named auth with fields called username and password (defaults) then the typical code works fine: require 'Auth/Auth.php'; $opts = array('table' => 'auth', 'cryptType' => 'none', 'dsn' => 'pgsql://db_user:db_pass at db_host/db_name'); $a = new Auth('DB', $opts); //$a->setShowLogin(false); $a->start(); I can login, go to google, return and I'm still logged in. However when changing $opts to reflect my database, the session won't stick. I can login and retrieve my user info, but like I said, If I leave and return, I'm logged out. here is the (faulty?) $opts : $opts = array('table' => 'users', usernamecol => 'email', 'passwordcol' => 'pass', 'cryptType' => 'none', 'dsn' => 'pgsql://db_user:db_pass at db_host/db_name'); By the way, cryptType of none is just for testing. : ) Thanks for any help, Matt Terenzio From dmintz at davidmintz.org Tue Aug 10 10:30:03 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:30:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Auth sessions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, Matthew Terenzio wrote: > [snip snip] > However when changing $opts to reflect my database, the session won't > stick. I can login and retrieve my user info, but like I said, If I > leave and return, I'm logged out. what is $a->getStatus() returning? --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From jonbaer at jonbaer.net Tue Aug 10 11:40:00 2004 From: jonbaer at jonbaer.net (Jon Baer) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:40:00 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] FW: [PHP-GTK] PHP-GTK 1.0.1 released Message-ID: <20040810153847.7E0EEA860A@virtu.nyphp.org> -----Original Message----- From: Andrei Zmievski [mailto:andrei at gravitonic.com] Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 7:36 PM To: php-gtk-general at lists.php.net Subject: [PHP-GTK] PHP-GTK 1.0.1 released PHP-GTK 1.0.1 is finally seeing the light of day. What's in this release: Version 1.0.1 "you thought we were done?" 09-Aug-2004 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - buildconf script now takes an optional --with-phpize= option to specify the location of phpize script. (Andrei) - removed support for old build system. PHP 4.3.x is now required to build PHP-GTK. (Andrei) - implemented append_element(), prepend_element(), insert_element(), append_item(), prepend_item(), and insert_item() methods of GtkToolbar class. (Andrei) - exposed the following (read-only) GtkToolbar properties: (Andrei) * style * space_style * space_size * orientation - reimplemented Gdk::cursor_new_from_pixmap() so it actually works. (Tom Rogers , Andrei) Get it from: http://gtk.php.net/download.php Cheers, - Andrei -- PHP-GTK General Mailing List (http://gtk.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Tue Aug 10 18:24:19 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 18:24:19 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] "bring em on..." sf #261 Message-ID: <20040810222418.GA18999@panix.com> Horde IMP HTML+TIME HTML Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10845 WHM AutoPilot Clogin.PHP Username/Password Information Discl.. http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10846 eNdonesia Search Form Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10856 Jetbox One Plaintext Password Storage Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10858 Jetbox One Remote Server-Side Script Execution Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10859 WackoWiki TextSearch Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10860 PHP-Nuke Delete God Admin Access Control Bypass Vulnerabilit... http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10861 phpBB Fetch All SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10868 phpBB Login.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10883 -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From jcrawford at codebowl.com Wed Aug 11 10:34:36 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:34:36 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Message-ID: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> Guys i have put in a quote for a site similar to http://www.novica.com/ and the person said the quote was way too much, my quote was $25,000 for the entire site to be done that is tax free for them, meaning i am paying my own taxes. Thier site included a ton of statistic features and quickbooks report integration etc... Do you guys think i quoted high or low? Joe Crawford Jr. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yury at heavenspa.com Wed Aug 11 10:46:32 2004 From: yury at heavenspa.com (Yury Rush) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:46:32 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: For a shopping cart -- maybe a little. But you would know better..you met with them and could feel them out. But hey -- a deal is made when you have a willing seller and a willing buyer! Is the quote for a jewelry store? regards Yury http://www.webuyolddiamonds.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford Jr. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:35 AM To: talk at lists.nyphp.org Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Guys i have put in a quote for a site similar to http://www.novica.com/ and the person said the quote was way too much, my quote was $25,000 for the entire site to be done that is tax free for them, meaning i am paying my own taxes. Thier site included a ton of statistic features and quickbooks report integration etc... Do you guys think i quoted high or low? Joe Crawford Jr. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian at vermonster.com Wed Aug 11 10:54:49 2004 From: brian at vermonster.com (Brian Kaney) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:54:49 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> References: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <1092236089.25399.17.camel@brian.vermonster.com> It is really hard to tell without reading a specification or proposal. There is quite a range out there from a $1k to $100k-plus. Consider if you need to hire a designer that could cost upward of $5k. How much back-end integration and automation is required for instance, etc...but this brings up a topic we deal with every day. One thing that drives me crazy about some small/mid business owners is their cost expectation. A SMB owner can purchase an entire office-productivity suite for less than $500. An accounting system for $300. So when they need integrated and custom work, it is a pretty big leap for them to drop multi-$k for a project. It really comes down to setting expectations as early as possible (so you don't waste hours researching and deploying). In the initial meeting with the client, I've found just asking for their budget is very useful. - Brian On Wed, 2004-08-11 at 10:34, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > Guys i have put in a quote for a site similar to > > http://www.novica.com/ > > and the person said the quote was way too much, my quote was $25,000 > for the entire site to be done that is tax free for them, meaning i am > paying my own taxes. Thier site included a ton of statistic features > and quickbooks report integration etc... > > Do you guys think i quoted high or low? > > Joe Crawford Jr. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org From jcrawford at codebowl.com Wed Aug 11 10:57:56 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 10:57:56 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote References: Message-ID: <002e01c47fb3$9646ea80$524a4044@codebowl> Yuri, that's just it, it's not a typical shopping cart, they want to have several store fronts that can sell items. Multiple shops where a user can navigate and order products from more than one shop in one transaction. They also want an admin area for each shop, the main admin interface limited by access, such as admin1 has access to part of the admin area and admin2 can have access to more parts of the admin area. If it wasnt confidential i would forward the docs to the list so you could see all of the features. They want to be able to have a portal for the users so that they can have They can see the weather See the stock market See front page news from local newspapers Horoscopes Match.com The top boxoffice numbers Search integration including not limited to yahoo, google such stuff as -message board -classifieds -their profile -newsletter -events -Email to a Friend recommend us kind of thing and win points program. -Discounts, shopping within the site's community members. So they can shop between themselves and have a community discount . so as you can see it is much more than a typical shopping cart. this project will probably take me upwards of 6-8 months Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: Yury Rush To: NYPHP Talk Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:46 AM Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote For a shopping cart -- maybe a little. But you would know better..you met with them and could feel them out. But hey -- a deal is made when you have a willing seller and a willing buyer! Is the quote for a jewelry store? regards Yury http://www.webuyolddiamonds.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford Jr. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:35 AM To: talk at lists.nyphp.org Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Guys i have put in a quote for a site similar to http://www.novica.com/ and the person said the quote was way too much, my quote was $25,000 for the entire site to be done that is tax free for them, meaning i am paying my own taxes. Thier site included a ton of statistic features and quickbooks report integration etc... Do you guys think i quoted high or low? Joe Crawford Jr. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcrawford at codebowl.com Wed Aug 11 11:00:44 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:00:44 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote References: <002e01c47fb3$9646ea80$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <004301c47fb3$fa500c00$524a4044@codebowl> i should also mention that they want each store to have it's own domain name if they so choose. Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Crawford Jr. To: NYPHP Talk Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Yuri, that's just it, it's not a typical shopping cart, they want to have several store fronts that can sell items. Multiple shops where a user can navigate and order products from more than one shop in one transaction. They also want an admin area for each shop, the main admin interface limited by access, such as admin1 has access to part of the admin area and admin2 can have access to more parts of the admin area. If it wasnt confidential i would forward the docs to the list so you could see all of the features. They want to be able to have a portal for the users so that they can have They can see the weather See the stock market See front page news from local newspapers Horoscopes Match.com The top boxoffice numbers Search integration including not limited to yahoo, google such stuff as -message board -classifieds -their profile -newsletter -events -Email to a Friend recommend us kind of thing and win points program. -Discounts, shopping within the site's community members. So they can shop between themselves and have a community discount . so as you can see it is much more than a typical shopping cart. this project will probably take me upwards of 6-8 months Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: Yury Rush To: NYPHP Talk Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:46 AM Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote For a shopping cart -- maybe a little. But you would know better..you met with them and could feel them out. But hey -- a deal is made when you have a willing seller and a willing buyer! Is the quote for a jewelry store? regards Yury http://www.webuyolddiamonds.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford Jr. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:35 AM To: talk at lists.nyphp.org Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Guys i have put in a quote for a site similar to http://www.novica.com/ and the person said the quote was way too much, my quote was $25,000 for the entire site to be done that is tax free for them, meaning i am paying my own taxes. Thier site included a ton of statistic features and quickbooks report integration etc... Do you guys think i quoted high or low? Joe Crawford Jr. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yury at heavenspa.com Wed Aug 11 11:08:03 2004 From: yury at heavenspa.com (Yury Rush) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:08:03 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <1092236089.25399.17.camel@brian.vermonster.com> Message-ID: I've found that *most* of my interactions with small clients has resulted in blank looks once they were asked about their budgets.. and if they were a bit larger then a small business they put on their poker face and try to play me into quoting a price. It would save me and them much time if we could work around their budget.. but alas few are willing to reveal this taboo issue :( regards yury http://www.day-spa-gifts.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Brian Kaney Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:55 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote It is really hard to tell without reading a specification or proposal. There is quite a range out there from a $1k to $100k-plus. Consider if you need to hire a designer that could cost upward of $5k. How much back-end integration and automation is required for instance, etc...but this brings up a topic we deal with every day. One thing that drives me crazy about some small/mid business owners is their cost expectation. A SMB owner can purchase an entire office-productivity suite for less than $500. An accounting system for $300. So when they need integrated and custom work, it is a pretty big leap for them to drop multi-$k for a project. It really comes down to setting expectations as early as possible (so you don't waste hours researching and deploying). In the initial meeting with the client, I've found just asking for their budget is very useful. - Brian On Wed, 2004-08-11 at 10:34, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > Guys i have put in a quote for a site similar to > > http://www.novica.com/ > > and the person said the quote was way too much, my quote was $25,000 > for the entire site to be done that is tax free for them, meaning i am > paying my own taxes. Thier site included a ton of statistic features > and quickbooks report integration etc... > > Do you guys think i quoted high or low? > > Joe Crawford Jr. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From yury at heavenspa.com Wed Aug 11 11:08:05 2004 From: yury at heavenspa.com (Yury Rush) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:08:05 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <002e01c47fb3$9646ea80$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: Joe -- in this instance-- your quote was rather fair in my eyes.. but hey once they say its too much.. refer to the proposal and say -- ok which elements can we remove so that we can fit the proposal into your alloted budget.... if they still give you alot of BS, wish them well and move on. Just my 2 cents. regards yury http://www.americanfactfinders.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford Jr. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:58 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Yuri, that's just it, it's not a typical shopping cart, they want to have several store fronts that can sell items. Multiple shops where a user can navigate and order products from more than one shop in one transaction. They also want an admin area for each shop, the main admin interface limited by access, such as admin1 has access to part of the admin area and admin2 can have access to more parts of the admin area. If it wasnt confidential i would forward the docs to the list so you could see all of the features. They want to be able to have a portal for the users so that they can have They can see the weather See the stock market See front page news from local newspapers Horoscopes Match.com The top boxoffice numbers Search integration including not limited to yahoo, google such stuff as -message board -classifieds -their profile -newsletter -events -Email to a Friend recommend us kind of thing and win points program. -Discounts, shopping within the site?s community members. So they can shop between themselves and have a community discount . so as you can see it is much more than a typical shopping cart. this project will probably take me upwards of 6-8 months Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: Yury Rush To: NYPHP Talk Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:46 AM Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote For a shopping cart -- maybe a little. But you would know better..you met with them and could feel them out. But hey -- a deal is made when you have a willing seller and a willing buyer! Is the quote for a jewelry store? regards Yury http://www.webuyolddiamonds.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford Jr. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:35 AM To: talk at lists.nyphp.org Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Guys i have put in a quote for a site similar to http://www.novica.com/ and the person said the quote was way too much, my quote was $25,000 for the entire site to be done that is tax free for them, meaning i am paying my own taxes. Thier site included a ton of statistic features and quickbooks report integration etc... Do you guys think i quoted high or low? Joe Crawford Jr. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yury at heavenspa.com Wed Aug 11 11:11:40 2004 From: yury at heavenspa.com (Yury Rush) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:11:40 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <004301c47fb3$fa500c00$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: One other idea -- ask if they would be interested in doing it hourly... which would be fantastic for you!!!!! :P ciao yury http://www.templatelabs.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford Jr. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:01 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote i should also mention that they want each store to have it's own domain name if they so choose. Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Crawford Jr. To: NYPHP Talk Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Yuri, that's just it, it's not a typical shopping cart, they want to have several store fronts that can sell items. Multiple shops where a user can navigate and order products from more than one shop in one transaction. They also want an admin area for each shop, the main admin interface limited by access, such as admin1 has access to part of the admin area and admin2 can have access to more parts of the admin area. If it wasnt confidential i would forward the docs to the list so you could see all of the features. They want to be able to have a portal for the users so that they can have They can see the weather See the stock market See front page news from local newspapers Horoscopes Match.com The top boxoffice numbers Search integration including not limited to yahoo, google such stuff as -message board -classifieds -their profile -newsletter -events -Email to a Friend recommend us kind of thing and win points program. -Discounts, shopping within the site?s community members. So they can shop between themselves and have a community discount . so as you can see it is much more than a typical shopping cart. this project will probably take me upwards of 6-8 months Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: Yury Rush To: NYPHP Talk Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:46 AM Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote For a shopping cart -- maybe a little. But you would know better..you met with them and could feel them out. But hey -- a deal is made when you have a willing seller and a willing buyer! Is the quote for a jewelry store? regards Yury http://www.webuyolddiamonds.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford Jr. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:35 AM To: talk at lists.nyphp.org Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Guys i have put in a quote for a site similar to http://www.novica.com/ and the person said the quote was way too much, my quote was $25,000 for the entire site to be done that is tax free for them, meaning i am paying my own taxes. Thier site included a ton of statistic features and quickbooks report integration etc... Do you guys think i quoted high or low? Joe Crawford Jr. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcrawford at codebowl.com Wed Aug 11 11:17:41 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:17:41 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote References: Message-ID: <007601c47fb6$587fc340$524a4044@codebowl> Yuri, thanks for your opinion i am going to talk with the client and see what can be done. It is actually a client of another company who wanted me to quote the job. I think they just want me to develop this really cheap to increase thier profits i am not sure. Thanks for all of your input on this situation. Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: Yury Rush To: NYPHP Talk Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:08 AM Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Joe -- in this instance-- your quote was rather fair in my eyes.. but hey once they say its too much.. refer to the proposal and say -- ok which elements can we remove so that we can fit the proposal into your alloted budget.... if they still give you alot of BS, wish them well and move on. Just my 2 cents. regards yury http://www.americanfactfinders.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford Jr. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:58 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Yuri, that's just it, it's not a typical shopping cart, they want to have several store fronts that can sell items. Multiple shops where a user can navigate and order products from more than one shop in one transaction. They also want an admin area for each shop, the main admin interface limited by access, such as admin1 has access to part of the admin area and admin2 can have access to more parts of the admin area. If it wasnt confidential i would forward the docs to the list so you could see all of the features. They want to be able to have a portal for the users so that they can have They can see the weather See the stock market See front page news from local newspapers Horoscopes Match.com The top boxoffice numbers Search integration including not limited to yahoo, google such stuff as -message board -classifieds -their profile -newsletter -events -Email to a Friend recommend us kind of thing and win points program. -Discounts, shopping within the site's community members. So they can shop between themselves and have a community discount . so as you can see it is much more than a typical shopping cart. this project will probably take me upwards of 6-8 months Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: Yury Rush To: NYPHP Talk Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:46 AM Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote For a shopping cart -- maybe a little. But you would know better..you met with them and could feel them out. But hey -- a deal is made when you have a willing seller and a willing buyer! Is the quote for a jewelry store? regards Yury http://www.webuyolddiamonds.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford Jr. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:35 AM To: talk at lists.nyphp.org Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Guys i have put in a quote for a site similar to http://www.novica.com/ and the person said the quote was way too much, my quote was $25,000 for the entire site to be done that is tax free for them, meaning i am paying my own taxes. Thier site included a ton of statistic features and quickbooks report integration etc... Do you guys think i quoted high or low? Joe Crawford Jr. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yury at heavenspa.com Wed Aug 11 11:16:43 2004 From: yury at heavenspa.com (Yury Rush) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:16:43 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <007601c47fb6$587fc340$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: :) good luck! Anytime.. regards Yury http://www.free-diet-info.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford Jr. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:18 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Yuri, thanks for your opinion i am going to talk with the client and see what can be done. It is actually a client of another company who wanted me to quote the job. I think they just want me to develop this really cheap to increase thier profits i am not sure. Thanks for all of your input on this situation. Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: Yury Rush To: NYPHP Talk Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:08 AM Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Joe -- in this instance-- your quote was rather fair in my eyes.. but hey once they say its too much.. refer to the proposal and say -- ok which elements can we remove so that we can fit the proposal into your alloted budget.... if they still give you alot of BS, wish them well and move on. Just my 2 cents. regards yury http://www.americanfactfinders.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford Jr. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:58 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Yuri, that's just it, it's not a typical shopping cart, they want to have several store fronts that can sell items. Multiple shops where a user can navigate and order products from more than one shop in one transaction. They also want an admin area for each shop, the main admin interface limited by access, such as admin1 has access to part of the admin area and admin2 can have access to more parts of the admin area. If it wasnt confidential i would forward the docs to the list so you could see all of the features. They want to be able to have a portal for the users so that they can have They can see the weather See the stock market See front page news from local newspapers Horoscopes Match.com The top boxoffice numbers Search integration including not limited to yahoo, google such stuff as -message board -classifieds -their profile -newsletter -events -Email to a Friend recommend us kind of thing and win points program. -Discounts, shopping within the site?s community members. So they can shop between themselves and have a community discount . so as you can see it is much more than a typical shopping cart. this project will probably take me upwards of 6-8 months Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: Yury Rush To: NYPHP Talk Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:46 AM Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote For a shopping cart -- maybe a little. But you would know better..you met with them and could feel them out. But hey -- a deal is made when you have a willing seller and a willing buyer! Is the quote for a jewelry store? regards Yury http://www.webuyolddiamonds.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford Jr. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:35 AM To: talk at lists.nyphp.org Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Guys i have put in a quote for a site similar to http://www.novica.com/ and the person said the quote was way too much, my quote was $25,000 for the entire site to be done that is tax free for them, meaning i am paying my own taxes. Thier site included a ton of statistic features and quickbooks report integration etc... Do you guys think i quoted high or low? Joe Crawford Jr. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwithington at PLMresearch.com Wed Aug 11 11:21:15 2004 From: mwithington at PLMresearch.com (Mark Withington) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:21:15 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Message-ID: <1F3CD8DDFB6A9B4C9B8DD06E4A7DE3586A6BF6@network.PLMresearch.com> How true! But I don't think we can lay all the blame at the client. There's always a lot of hocus-pocus on both sides - much of which are the characteristics of a young, "undisciplined" [Econ 101] industry. As a rather rough [pardon me] analogy, I suggest looking at the automobile repair industry. 15 - 20 years ago you could go to several garages and get several different quotes to do a particular job. Today, they all quote out of the same book (x number of hours at $y/hour). OK...where am I going with this? Perhaps in an effort to start to standardize rates and jobs (and remove some of the hocus pocus) NYPHP could set up a database of positions/rates and job/efforts. From that the whole community could benefit. For example: Database modeling - $x/hour Standard shopping cart - y man-hours Really crude, I know, but [hopefully] you get the idea. -------------------------- Mark L. Withington PLMresearch v: 508-746-2383 m: 508-801-0181 Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Yury Rush Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:08 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote I've found that *most* of my interactions with small clients has resulted in blank looks once they were asked about their budgets.. and if they were a bit larger then a small business they put on their poker face and try to play me into quoting a price. It would save me and them much time if we could work around their budget.. but alas few are willing to reveal this taboo issue :( regards yury http://www.day-spa-gifts.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Brian Kaney Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:55 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote It is really hard to tell without reading a specification or proposal. There is quite a range out there from a $1k to $100k-plus. Consider if you need to hire a designer that could cost upward of $5k. How much back-end integration and automation is required for instance, etc...but this brings up a topic we deal with every day. One thing that drives me crazy about some small/mid business owners is their cost expectation. A SMB owner can purchase an entire office-productivity suite for less than $500. An accounting system for $300. So when they need integrated and custom work, it is a pretty big leap for them to drop multi-$k for a project. It really comes down to setting expectations as early as possible (so you don't waste hours researching and deploying). In the initial meeting with the client, I've found just asking for their budget is very useful. - Brian On Wed, 2004-08-11 at 10:34, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > Guys i have put in a quote for a site similar to > > http://www.novica.com/ > > and the person said the quote was way too much, my quote was $25,000 > for the entire site to be done that is tax free for them, meaning i am > paying my own taxes. Thier site included a ton of statistic features > and quickbooks report integration etc... > > Do you guys think i quoted high or low? > > Joe Crawford Jr. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com Wed Aug 11 11:28:34 2004 From: phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com (Phillip Powell) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:28:34 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <007601c47fb6$587fc340$524a4044@codebowl> References: <007601c47fb6$587fc340$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <411A3B22.3030400@adnet-sys.com> Your experience reminds me of my past experiences dealing with projects via Rentacoder. There most of your small businesses would collect bids and proposals from individual coders, but none of them would dare provide the rather fair quote you provided of $25K; in fact, it would be far far lower, say around.. $250. Then again, the small businesses would instantly scoop them up, ask for impossible deadlines and demands including UI, secured processing and other unusual demands, and expect it to be done in 15 days or less. Oh did I mention where these coders usually wind up coming from? Can you say INDIA? Hope your experience is far more fruitful than mine! Phil Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > Yuri, > thanks for your opinion i am going to talk with the client and see > what can be done. It is actually a client of another company who > wanted me to quote the job. I think they just want me to develop this > really cheap to increase thier profits i am not sure. Thanks for all > of your input on this situation. > Joe Crawford Jr. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Yury Rush > *To:* NYPHP Talk > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:08 AM > *Subject:* RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote > > Joe -- in this instance-- your quote was rather fair in my eyes.. > but hey once they say its too much.. refer to the proposal and say > -- ok which elements can we remove so that we can fit the proposal > into your alloted budget.... if they still give you alot of BS, > wish them well and move on. Just my 2 cents. > regards > yury > http://www.americanfactfinders.com > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]*On Behalf Of *Joseph > Crawford Jr. > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:58 AM > *To:* NYPHP Talk > *Subject:* Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote > > Yuri, > that's just it, it's not a typical shopping cart, they want to > have several store fronts that can sell items. Multiple shops > where a user can navigate and order products from more than > one shop in one transaction. > They also want an admin area for each shop, the main admin > interface limited by access, such as admin1 has access to part > of the admin area and admin2 can have access to more parts of > the admin area. If it wasnt confidential i would forward the > docs to the list so you could see all of the features. > They want to be able to have a portal for the users so that > they can have > They can see the weather > See the stock market > See front page news from local newspapers > Horoscopes > Match.com > The top boxoffice numbers > Search integration including not limited to > yahoo, google > such stuff as > -message board > -classifieds > -their profile > -newsletter > -events > -Email to a Friend recommend us kind of thing and win points > program. > -Discounts, shopping within the site?s community members. So > they can shop between themselves and have a community discount . > so as you can see it is much more than a typical shopping cart. > this project will probably take me upwards of 6-8 months > Joe Crawford Jr. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Yury Rush > *To:* NYPHP Talk > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:46 AM > *Subject:* RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote > > For a shopping cart -- maybe a little. But you would know > better..you met with them and could feel them out. But hey > -- a deal is made when you have a willing seller and a > willing buyer! Is the quote for a jewelry store? > regards > Yury > http://www.webuyolddiamonds.com > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]*On Behalf Of > *Joseph Crawford Jr. > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:35 AM > *To:* talk at lists.nyphp.org > *Subject:* [nycphp-talk] Site Quote > > Guys i have put in a quote for a site similar to > http://www.novica.com/ > and the person said the quote was way too much, my > quote was $25,000 for the entire site to be done that > is tax free for them, meaning i am paying my own > taxes. Thier site included a ton of statistic features > and quickbooks report integration etc... > Do you guys think i quoted high or low? > Joe Crawford Jr. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phil Powell Multimedia Programmer BPX Technologies, Inc. #: (703) 709-7218 x107 Fax: (703) 709-7219 From jcrawford at codebowl.com Wed Aug 11 11:32:43 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:32:43 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote References: Message-ID: <005101c47fb8$724c4e90$524a4044@codebowl> tried that and said i would work for $25/hr they wanted a project quote and then anything after the contract be @ 25/hr Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: Yury Rush To: NYPHP Talk Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:11 AM Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote One other idea -- ask if they would be interested in doing it hourly... which would be fantastic for you!!!!! :P ciao yury http://www.templatelabs.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford Jr. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:01 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote i should also mention that they want each store to have it's own domain name if they so choose. Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Crawford Jr. To: NYPHP Talk Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Yuri, that's just it, it's not a typical shopping cart, they want to have several store fronts that can sell items. Multiple shops where a user can navigate and order products from more than one shop in one transaction. They also want an admin area for each shop, the main admin interface limited by access, such as admin1 has access to part of the admin area and admin2 can have access to more parts of the admin area. If it wasnt confidential i would forward the docs to the list so you could see all of the features. They want to be able to have a portal for the users so that they can have They can see the weather See the stock market See front page news from local newspapers Horoscopes Match.com The top boxoffice numbers Search integration including not limited to yahoo, google such stuff as -message board -classifieds -their profile -newsletter -events -Email to a Friend recommend us kind of thing and win points program. -Discounts, shopping within the site's community members. So they can shop between themselves and have a community discount . so as you can see it is much more than a typical shopping cart. this project will probably take me upwards of 6-8 months Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: Yury Rush To: NYPHP Talk Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:46 AM Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote For a shopping cart -- maybe a little. But you would know better..you met with them and could feel them out. But hey -- a deal is made when you have a willing seller and a willing buyer! Is the quote for a jewelry store? regards Yury http://www.webuyolddiamonds.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford Jr. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:35 AM To: talk at lists.nyphp.org Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Guys i have put in a quote for a site similar to http://www.novica.com/ and the person said the quote was way too much, my quote was $25,000 for the entire site to be done that is tax free for them, meaning i am paying my own taxes. Thier site included a ton of statistic features and quickbooks report integration etc... Do you guys think i quoted high or low? Joe Crawford Jr. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bpang at bpang.com Wed Aug 11 12:13:01 2004 From: bpang at bpang.com (Brian Pang) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:13:01 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Message-ID: I agree with you here. Everybody likes to play the little game of "He who mentions a dollar amount first loses." I usually try to explain to potential clients that if I can at least get a ballpark range that I can tailor the proposal to fit within that. It's only semi-effective as everybody wants the best solution for the lowest price and still have a hard time understanding that $1000 does not get you a $100,000 solution. > I've found that *most* of my interactions with small clients has resulted in > blank looks once they were asked about their budgets.. and if they were a > bit larger then a small business they put on their poker face and try to > play me into quoting a price. > > It would save me and them much time if we could work around their budget.. > but alas few are willing to reveal this taboo issue :( > > regards > yury > From joel at tagword.com Wed Aug 11 12:12:28 2004 From: joel at tagword.com (Joel De Gan) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:12:28 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <005101c47fb8$724c4e90$524a4044@codebowl> References: <005101c47fb8$724c4e90$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <1092240748.7530.56.camel@bezel> Really depends.. You will see people bid super low on things like this on scriptlance and rentacoder (and my site listbid.com) just to get talking with the buyer. If you have a very good team of people to do this, you could realistically charge between 20 and 40k depending on how much graphical work they need and if things need to be specialized and built from scratch. However, if you can use pre-built carts and stuff you could go as low as 5-10k and have something like this built-out in a couple weeks easy. But: The main issue with these is "always" feature-creep and maintenance which will chew into your profits horribly unless you clearly define a "Maintenance hourly contract". My recommendation (from working at various custom site shops and having done a lot of these) if you are working solo would be $25 hour coding (basic php and html, templates, graphics etc) and $40-70/hour for any database specific work (which you can explain is "specialized work", don't mention the fact the whole thing is built on a database, this gives you a great way to deter certain 'features' the client thinks they want). If you have several people working with you and have an established name for yourself, you could go as high as $75-125/hour for billing on any work and specialized network coding starts at $150/hour for a professional. (i.e. if they want some news rdf scraper) Another note: Always, always, always double your quoted time (when working by yourself) unless your know for a certain fact that you can do it within that time period. Having seen this firsthand many times, it will give you some flex area and you can sometimes come in below the quote which makes the client very happy. -joeldg On Wed, 2004-08-11 at 15:32, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > tried that and said i would work for $25/hr they wanted a project > quote and then anything after the contract be @ 25/hr > > Joe Crawford Jr. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Yury Rush > To: NYPHP Talk > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:11 AM > Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote > > One other idea -- ask if they would be interested in doing it > hourly... which would be fantastic for you!!!!! :P > > ciao > yury > > > http://www.templatelabs.com > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of > Joseph Crawford Jr. > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:01 AM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote > > > i should also mention that they want each store to > have it's own domain name if they so choose. > > Joe Crawford Jr. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joseph Crawford Jr. > To: NYPHP Talk > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:57 AM > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote > > Yuri, > > that's just it, it's not a typical shopping > cart, they want to have several store fronts > that can sell items. Multiple shops where a > user can navigate and order products from more > than one shop in one transaction. > > They also want an admin area for each shop, > the main admin interface limited by access, > such as admin1 has access to part of the admin > area and admin2 can have access to more parts > of the admin area. If it wasnt confidential i > would forward the docs to the list so you > could see all of the features. > > They want to be able to have a portal for the > users so that they can have > > They can see the weather > See the stock market > See front page news from local newspapers > Horoscopes > Match.com > The top boxoffice numbers > > Search integration including not limited to > > yahoo, google > > such stuff as > -message board > -classifieds > -their profile > -newsletter > -events > -Email to a Friend recommend us kind of thing > and win points program. > -Discounts, shopping within the sites > community members. So they can shop between > themselves and have a community discount . > > so as you can see it is much more than a > typical shopping cart. > > this project will probably take me upwards of > 6-8 months > > Joe Crawford Jr. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Yury Rush > To: NYPHP Talk > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:46 > AM > Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote > > For a shopping cart -- maybe a little. > But you would know better..you met > with them and could feel them out. But > hey -- a deal is made when you have a > willing seller and a willing buyer! Is > the quote for a jewelry store? > > regards > Yury > > http://www.webuyolddiamonds.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: > talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford Jr. > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, > 2004 9:35 AM > To: talk at lists.nyphp.org > Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site > Quote > > > Guys i have put in a quote for > a site similar to > > http://www.novica.com/ > > and the person said the quote > was way too much, my quote was > $25,000 for the entire site to > be done that is tax free for > them, meaning i am paying my > own taxes. Thier site > included a ton of statistic > features and quickbooks report > integration etc... > > Do you guys think i quoted > high or low? > > Joe Crawford Jr. > > ______________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology > (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > ______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > ______________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org -- joeldg - developer, Intercosmos media group. http://lucifer.intercosmos.net From yury at heavenspa.com Wed Aug 11 12:15:23 2004 From: yury at heavenspa.com (Yury Rush) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:15:23 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: Message-ID: But then once in a blue moon you get a nice client who says -- i want a 5 page static website and I have 5k budgeted.. BINGO! :P ciao yury http://www.videogamesoutlet.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Brian Pang Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:13 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote I agree with you here. Everybody likes to play the little game of "He who mentions a dollar amount first loses." I usually try to explain to potential clients that if I can at least get a ballpark range that I can tailor the proposal to fit within that. It's only semi-effective as everybody wants the best solution for the lowest price and still have a hard time understanding that $1000 does not get you a $100,000 solution. > I've found that *most* of my interactions with small clients has resulted in > blank looks once they were asked about their budgets.. and if they were a > bit larger then a small business they put on their poker face and try to > play me into quoting a price. > > It would save me and them much time if we could work around their budget.. > but alas few are willing to reveal this taboo issue :( > > regards > yury > _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From jcrawford at codebowl.com Wed Aug 11 12:19:59 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:19:59 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote References: Message-ID: <006001c47fbf$0c5080a0$524a4044@codebowl> Yury, isnt that taking advantage lol ;) Joe Crawford Jr. From bpang at bpang.com Wed Aug 11 12:21:01 2004 From: bpang at bpang.com (Brian Pang) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:21:01 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Message-ID: sure.. but it's full of dhtml and other wacked out ideas > But then once in a blue moon you get a nice client who says -- i want a 5 > page static website and I have 5k budgeted.. BINGO! :P From yury at heavenspa.com Wed Aug 11 12:28:18 2004 From: yury at heavenspa.com (Yury Rush) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:28:18 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <006001c47fbf$0c5080a0$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: no :) remember -- willing buyer and willing seller - this should be your mantra too!!!! Would your competition jump on it? If this client went to a new firm and said "oh yury quoted me a price of 4799.99 on my budget of 5k for the project".. the new firm will say - Oh we can give you a very good deal of only 4150.00 and we'll build you a Free sitemap!. They'd go to rentadesigner and get a template built for 100.00 and viola.. much profit. I'll take these clients all day long. please.. if you have them send them my way :> Free sitemaps for all! regards yury p.s. if anyone wants to hire me -- im looking for f/t work! http://www.authorbooksearch.com/ -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford Jr. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:20 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Yury, isnt that taking advantage lol ;) Joe Crawford Jr. _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From yury at heavenspa.com Wed Aug 11 12:29:28 2004 From: yury at heavenspa.com (Yury Rush) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:29:28 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: Message-ID: better yet -- repeating/tiling background images of their logo :) regards yury http://www.photoshoptalk.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Brian Pang Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:21 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote sure.. but it's full of dhtml and other wacked out ideas > But then once in a blue moon you get a nice client who says -- i want a 5 > page static website and I have 5k budgeted.. BINGO! :P _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From jcrawford at codebowl.com Wed Aug 11 12:32:15 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:32:15 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote References: Message-ID: <006a01c47fc0$c2f65b30$524a4044@codebowl> lol yury i guess i need to use that same moto willing buyer willing seller. ;) Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yury Rush" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:28 PM Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote > no :) remember -- willing buyer and willing seller - this should be your > mantra too!!!! Would your competition jump on it? If this client went to a > new firm and said "oh yury quoted me a price of 4799.99 on my budget of 5k > for the project".. the new firm will say - Oh we can give you a very good > deal of only 4150.00 and we'll build you a Free sitemap!. They'd go to > rentadesigner and get a template built for 100.00 and viola.. much profit. > I'll take these clients all day long. please.. if you have them send them my > way :> Free sitemaps for all! > > regards > yury > > p.s. if anyone wants to hire me -- im looking for f/t work! > > http://www.authorbooksearch.com/ > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford Jr. > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:20 AM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote > > > Yury, > > isnt that taking advantage lol ;) > > Joe Crawford Jr. > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From brian at vermonster.com Wed Aug 11 13:13:45 2004 From: brian at vermonster.com (Brian Kaney) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:13:45 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1092244425.25399.180.camel@brian.vermonster.com> That blank stare is a bummer! It's important to be tactful when broaching price and budget. Some will come out and say "I have a $10k budget to work with", others can glaze over or become anxious when talking about a budget. After discussing the project details, I try to have a quick estimate ready. "This feels like we are in the $20-25k range. Is this in line with your expectations?". This kind of communication is sometimes difficult, but most clients will appreciate the upfront honesty. And once the cat is out of the bag, the topic becomes less taboo and more manageable and more fair for both sides. Some other (unwarranted) advice is to try not to make cost the focus of the conversation, highlight the results you can provide. Most clients are excited about their project, that enthusiasms is great to work with. People tend to remember the opening and (especially) the closing of a conversation, so I try to touch on the budget somewhere in the middle instead of waiting until the end. It also helps to offer flexible payment terms, small businesses are very cash-flow conscious. Anyway, just some suggestions. - Brian On Wed, 2004-08-11 at 11:08, Yury Rush wrote: > I've found that *most* of my interactions with small clients has resulted in > blank looks once they were asked about their budgets.. and if they were a > bit larger then a small business they put on their poker face and try to > play me into quoting a price. > > It would save me and them much time if we could work around their budget.. > but alas few are willing to reveal this taboo issue :( > > regards > yury > > http://www.day-spa-gifts.com From ajai at bitblit.net Wed Aug 11 13:18:13 2004 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:18:13 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <1092240748.7530.56.camel@bezel> References: <005101c47fb8$724c4e90$524a4044@codebowl> <1092240748.7530.56.camel@bezel> Message-ID: <411A54D5.4050703@bitblit.net> Joel De Gan wrote: >Really depends.. >You will see people bid super low on things like this on scriptlance and >rentacoder (and my site listbid.com) just to get talking with the buyer. >If you have a very good team of people to do this, you could >realistically charge between 20 and 40k depending on how much graphical >work they need and if things need to be specialized and built from >scratch. > My personal opinion is that we have been going through a technology "backlash" for the past 3 years. All those Web wannabe's overcharged in the 90s and the pebdulum has swung to the other extreme. People simply do not want to pay New York prices for contracting work (that is, if you can find any contracting work at all in the first place). Its all very depressing. Makes you want to just quit and go work on a farm. -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer From nyphp at enobrev.com Wed Aug 11 13:27:14 2004 From: nyphp at enobrev.com (Mark Armendariz) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:27:14 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <1092244425.25399.180.camel@brian.vermonster.com> Message-ID: <20040811172720.31E1BA862D@virtu.nyphp.org> > Some other (unwarranted) advice is to try not to make cost > the focus of the conversation, highlight the results you can > provide. Most clients are excited about their project, that > enthusiasms is great to work with. I absolutely agree. I tend to aim high and make the price very matter of fact, ensuring phenomenal service and great work. Also, double your time is a minimum. Expect problems with the host, meetings, miscommunication, sick days, and anything else that could possibly halt the project for days on end. And don't let the blank stare scare you. When they give you a 'more reasonable' number, give them that same look, even more prolonged. When they lose confidence, cut some functionality and meet them in the middle. From php at haberco.com Wed Aug 11 13:34:24 2004 From: php at haberco.com (Eddie Haber) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:34:24 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Love this thread. And some great advice has already been posted. I completely concur with all of Joel De Gan's points, too. And I sympathize with Ajai's remarks. I wanted to also add, in the beginning of Brooks's The Mythical Man-Month, he makes a big point about the difference between a Software Application and a Programming System. Not to be pedantic, but briefly: a programming system differs in that it is extensible and adaptable in the future. In web parlance, we can say the difference between a first-generation PHP site (with code and logic interspersed throughout and procedural calls placed directly in the scripts) vs. a web-application built on a framework that is OO, component-based, internationalized, and skinable. Clearly the latter has tons more value. Brooks concludes the exact amount is **9** times the financial cost. It may be possible to meet some clients' needs with very unsophisticated brute-force solutions. And sometimes this is exactly what the client wants and needs. There are PC-based apps that generate PHP and SQL code already. And some websites may be a matter of designing nice HTML-based templates, and utilizing these applications to inject some generic features. Another possibility, maybe even another tier lower, would be to try to implement an "off-the-shelf" solution like MamboServer or Plone, or even a slick blogger; and then customize the look and feel for them. A solution like this could be provided for under $1,000. So, I usually make these distinctions clear to my clients. If what they want is a Programming System, that is going to carry a much higher price tag (9x according to Brooks, but you all know this to be the case from experience anyway). If your client laughs at you when you say you can at the push of a button dish out his site in French or German, then clearly that is a case of your desires for boss programming architecture over-ruling the needs of your client. So, I'd say read your client. Explain these possibilities and consequences. Explain the pros and cons of building specialized apps verses programming systems. Ultimately at the end of the discussion, the client should see clearly the justification for their budget. I believe it is possible, in broad terms, to communicate this to the client. Eddie From yury at heavenspa.com Wed Aug 11 13:51:44 2004 From: yury at heavenspa.com (Yury Rush) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:51:44 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: Message-ID: :) yes but we have people with *web-app visions* and shoe string budgets :) All the points stated are quite valid -- selling on price alone is a bad way to do business, just as you can undercut the next guy, your client will be stolen from you by the next lower price. We've kind of strayed away from Josephs original question: was his quote fair? Initially i thought it was a bit high, but after him explaining the details, I thing its fair.. i would have added some on top to be safe. But the client in the end makes the decisions -- all we can do is try to educate them ( using marks, joels and eddie's suggestions ).. all great points. and if that doesn't work - we'll look into starting a medical marijuana farm.. :) ciao yury http://www.powertoolsoutlet.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Eddie Haber Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:34 PM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Love this thread. And some great advice has already been posted. I completely concur with all of Joel De Gan's points, too. And I sympathize with Ajai's remarks. I wanted to also add, in the beginning of Brooks's The Mythical Man-Month, he makes a big point about the difference between a Software Application and a Programming System. Not to be pedantic, but briefly: a programming system differs in that it is extensible and adaptable in the future. In web parlance, we can say the difference between a first-generation PHP site (with code and logic interspersed throughout and procedural calls placed directly in the scripts) vs. a web-application built on a framework that is OO, component-based, internationalized, and skinable. Clearly the latter has tons more value. Brooks concludes the exact amount is **9** times the financial cost. It may be possible to meet some clients' needs with very unsophisticated brute-force solutions. And sometimes this is exactly what the client wants and needs. There are PC-based apps that generate PHP and SQL code already. And some websites may be a matter of designing nice HTML-based templates, and utilizing these applications to inject some generic features. Another possibility, maybe even another tier lower, would be to try to implement an "off-the-shelf" solution like MamboServer or Plone, or even a slick blogger; and then customize the look and feel for them. A solution like this could be provided for under $1,000. So, I usually make these distinctions clear to my clients. If what they want is a Programming System, that is going to carry a much higher price tag (9x according to Brooks, but you all know this to be the case from experience anyway). If your client laughs at you when you say you can at the push of a button dish out his site in French or German, then clearly that is a case of your desires for boss programming architecture over-ruling the needs of your client. So, I'd say read your client. Explain these possibilities and consequences. Explain the pros and cons of building specialized apps verses programming systems. Ultimately at the end of the discussion, the client should see clearly the justification for their budget. I believe it is possible, in broad terms, to communicate this to the client. Eddie _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From dmintz at davidmintz.org Wed Aug 11 13:59:48 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:59:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >From the Paranoia Department: Beware of talking about numbers on a public forum. In other industries the FTC has been known to investigate people for price-fixing for the sin of conversing in just the way you guys are doing. (Of course, if you're Big Business you can usually get away with it, but that's another topic.) --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From jcrawford at codebowl.com Wed Aug 11 14:05:50 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:05:50 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote References: Message-ID: <009e01c47fcd$d5d955b0$524a4044@codebowl> David, can you explain a bit better? Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Mintz" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:59 PM Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote > > >From the Paranoia Department: > > Beware of talking about numbers on a public forum. In other industries the > FTC has been known to investigate people for price-fixing for the sin of > conversing in just the way you guys are doing. > > (Of course, if you're Big Business you can usually get away with it, but > that's another topic.) > > --- > David Mintz > http://davidmintz.org/ > > "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From joel at tagword.com Wed Aug 11 14:09:16 2004 From: joel at tagword.com (Joel De Gan) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:09:16 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <411A54D5.4050703@bitblit.net> References: <005101c47fb8$724c4e90$524a4044@codebowl> <1092240748.7530.56.camel@bezel> <411A54D5.4050703@bitblit.net> Message-ID: <1092247740.7522.85.camel@bezel> On Wed, 2004-08-11 at 17:18, Ajai Khattri wrote: > My personal opinion is that we have been going through a technology > "backlash" for the past 3 years. All those Web wannabe's overcharged in > the 90s and the pebdulum has swung to the other extreme. People simply > do not want to pay New York prices for contracting work (that is, if you > can find any contracting work at all in the first place). Its all very > depressing. Makes you want to just quit and go work on a farm. The issue I was addressing was the clients who want the equivalent of amazon.com for under $5,000 ... and if you have not run across one of these, you have been under a rock. Prices quoted were for business contracts, not little mom and pop shops (which don't pay anything and have a tendency to think the kid down the road could do it anyway). I have done the majority of my work for corporations. Bothering with a site under 5k is usually a complete waste of time. Don't work cheap people, they think you are cheap. -- joeldg - developer, Intercosmos media group. http://lucifer.intercosmos.net From chubbard at next-online.net Wed Aug 11 14:11:44 2004 From: chubbard at next-online.net (Chris Hubbard) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:11:44 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> References: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: Joe, My initial reaction is that your quote is fair and reasonable. I've built a couple projects this large and they were in your price range. That being said it's hard to not get a project like this. They can get it built for considerably less money, they could use OSC as the core shopping cart, and then start leveraging stuff into it. Then they're in trouble going forward. Sometimes I ask the client when do they want to pay the piper? Now? Later? Unfortunately the answer is too often, later. I tend to let those folks work with someone else. They typically end up spending 3x - 5x more than they needed to on the project. I resonate with the sentiments, about the need to get people educated about the true costs of development projects. Chris On Aug 11, 2004, at 7:34 AM, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > Guys i have put in a quote for a site similar to > ? > http://www.novica.com/ > ? > and the person said the quote was way too much, my quote was $25,000 > for the entire site to be done that is tax free for them, meaning i am > paying my own taxes.? Thier site included a ton of statistic features > and quickbooks report integration etc... > ? > Do you guys think i quoted high or low? > ? > Joe Crawford Jr. > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org Chris Hubbard chubbard at next-online.net 425 563 4153 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1847 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hans at cyberxdesigns.com Wed Aug 11 14:21:31 2004 From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:21:31 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <411A63AB.2070901@cyberxdesigns.com> Wow! This is truly scary. Do you have personal experience with this David? You can respond off list. I love our government. More fodder for my fear and uncertainty. Hans K David Mintz wrote: >>From the Paranoia Department: > >Beware of talking about numbers on a public forum. In other industries the >FTC has been known to investigate people for price-fixing for the sin of >conversing in just the way you guys are doing. > > From mwithington at PLMresearch.com Wed Aug 11 14:27:48 2004 From: mwithington at PLMresearch.com (Mark Withington) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:27:48 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Message-ID: <1F3CD8DDFB6A9B4C9B8DD06E4A7DE3586A6BF7@network.PLMresearch.com> To my knowledge (limited I admit) discussing pricing in an open format is not illegal. Big biz does this all the time via newspapers, TV, etc. (you don't really think the airlines are announcing a price hike for any other reason than price signaling to their competitors do you). I agree that collusion is something to worry about, however, in our highly fragmented industry I would doubt such charges would hold water. But... I could be wrong ;-) -------------------------- Mark L. Withington PLMresearch v: 508-746-2383 m: 508-801-0181 Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Hans C. Kaspersetz Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:22 PM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Wow! This is truly scary. Do you have personal experience with this David? You can respond off list. I love our government. More fodder for my fear and uncertainty. Hans K David Mintz wrote: >>From the Paranoia Department: > >Beware of talking about numbers on a public forum. In other industries >the FTC has been known to investigate people for price-fixing for the >sin of conversing in just the way you guys are doing. > > _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From lists at prusak.com Wed Aug 11 14:37:21 2004 From: lists at prusak.com (ophir prusak) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:37:21 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> References: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <411A6761.8070308@prusak.com> Hi Joseph, Any site that's gonna cost over $10,000 really needs to be built in a two (or more) stage process. Stage one is creating a detailed specification of what the clients will get - what the end result will be. This can also be thought of a user manual / blueprint of the site. Stage two is the actual creation. The is the building of the site. Sometimes there is a stage three of what they get after you're done. A good analogy to give to clients is that they want to create a building but first need to create a detailed blueprint. You should separate both stages regarding cost. A serious client understands the importance of creating good specs. Offer to do just stage one for $X and then when they have the specs you can give a price for doing the entire site, but tell them that they're free to do the implementation with anyone they want. If the client only cares about price, you're better off having someone else do the implementation anyways. If they can appreciate excellent quality and service, then you should be able to show them such during phase one and have won them over. Personally, if a client isn't prepared to spend at least $500 for the specs of an over $10,000 project, I'd beware. Ophir Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > Guys i have put in a quote for a site similar to > > http://www.novica.com/ > > and the person said the quote was way too much, my quote was $25,000 > for the entire site to be done that is tax free for them, meaning i am > paying my own taxes. Thier site included a ton of statistic features > and quickbooks report integration etc... > > Do you guys think i quoted high or low? > > Joe Crawford Jr. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffknight at mac.com Wed Aug 11 14:39:48 2004 From: jeffknight at mac.com (Jeff Knight) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:39:48 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <1F3CD8DDFB6A9B4C9B8DD06E4A7DE3586A6BF7@network.PLMresearch.com> References: <1F3CD8DDFB6A9B4C9B8DD06E4A7DE3586A6BF7@network.PLMresearch.com> Message-ID: On Aug 11, 2004, at 2:27 PM, Mark Withington wrote: > To my knowledge (limited I admit) discussing pricing in an open format > is not illegal... An interesting project would be to begin something like the Graphic Artists Guild & their Handbook of Pricing & Ethical Guidelines. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0932102123 They've published their 11th edition (I think they're about 20-25 years old), and the FTC hasn't troubled them yet... It is an amazing resource, would be nice to have something similar for our corner of the world. The Guild also provides legal help with disputes and other services, a well organized model worthy of emulation. From ajai at bitblit.net Wed Aug 11 14:37:27 2004 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:37:27 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <411A6767.2020004@bitblit.net> Yury Rush wrote: >and if that doesn't work - we'll look into starting a medical marijuana >farm.. > Dont laugh - some startups have been funded on marijuana sales! (If you've ever read "The Nudist on the Night Shift" by (I think) Po Bronson ;-) -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer From ajai at bitblit.net Wed Aug 11 14:42:46 2004 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:42:46 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <411A63AB.2070901@cyberxdesigns.com> References: <411A63AB.2070901@cyberxdesigns.com> Message-ID: <411A68A6.7020904@bitblit.net> Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote: > Wow! This is truly scary. Do you have personal experience with this > David? You can respond off list. I love our government. More fodder > for my fear and uncertainty. If we combined our paranoia, regarding our conservative government, with our marijuana plan, you would have to move to Canada ;-) -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer From yury at heavenspa.com Wed Aug 11 14:47:33 2004 From: yury at heavenspa.com (Yury Rush) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:47:33 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <1F3CD8DDFB6A9B4C9B8DD06E4A7DE3586A6BF7@network.PLMresearch.com> Message-ID: What about the IRS list infiltrators :P) ciao yury http://www.motionrush.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Mark Withington Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:28 PM To: 'NYPHP Talk' Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote To my knowledge (limited I admit) discussing pricing in an open format is not illegal. Big biz does this all the time via newspapers, TV, etc. (you don't really think the airlines are announcing a price hike for any other reason than price signaling to their competitors do you). I agree that collusion is something to worry about, however, in our highly fragmented industry I would doubt such charges would hold water. But... I could be wrong ;-) -------------------------- Mark L. Withington PLMresearch v: 508-746-2383 m: 508-801-0181 Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Hans C. Kaspersetz Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 2:22 PM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Wow! This is truly scary. Do you have personal experience with this David? You can respond off list. I love our government. More fodder for my fear and uncertainty. Hans K David Mintz wrote: >>From the Paranoia Department: > >Beware of talking about numbers on a public forum. In other industries >the FTC has been known to investigate people for price-fixing for the >sin of conversing in just the way you guys are doing. > > _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From yury at heavenspa.com Wed Aug 11 14:52:58 2004 From: yury at heavenspa.com (Yury Rush) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:52:58 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <411A68A6.7020904@bitblit.net> Message-ID: BC here we come ;) plus free health benifits and 1+ month paid vacations... regards yury http://www.photoshoptalk.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Ajai Khattri Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:43 PM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Hans C. Kaspersetz wrote: > Wow! This is truly scary. Do you have personal experience with this > David? You can respond off list. I love our government. More fodder > for my fear and uncertainty. If we combined our paranoia, regarding our conservative government, with our marijuana plan, you would have to move to Canada ;-) -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com Wed Aug 11 15:23:38 2004 From: sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:23:38 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> References: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <21471-54165@sneakemail.com> Joseph Crawford Jr. jcrawford-at-codebowl.com |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: > Guys i have put in a quote for a site similar to > > http://www.novica.com/ > > and the person said the quote was way too much, my quote was $25,000 > for the entire site to be done that is tax free for them, meaning i am > paying my own taxes. Thier site included a ton of statistic features > and quickbooks report integration etc... > > Do you guys think i quoted high or low? > > Joe Crawford Jr. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Interesting professional discussion here... nice to see it. If I may offer some different perspective : if you are a general contractor, you approach the client completely differently, with plans to get the job at any price over some minimum you know you can meet specs with after cutting all corners. You know those numbers going in, so if they say $5k you farm it to Elbonia out as a CMS customization job for $3500; and if they say $25,000 you hire your buddies and do a great job you can build upon. Keep in mind in tis case you are in the business of estimating and project managing, NOT coding. If you are a coder and a company approaches you to bid on a full project (like this one) you are at a serious disadvantage. Since you are a coder, you know all the intangibles they can never see clearly until they feel the pain. You can't see the forest for the trees; they can't see the trees but see the forest. With a request like this, either you step back and play project manager/GC, or pass this newbie client to a programming shop for a referral fee. If they are also middlemen on this, as you suggest, then more reason to distance yourself from any obligation but strong, specific written requirements (not just "make a site like this other one with these features"). If they balk at a price without careful scruitiny of your specific implementation plans, that's also a sign of trouble. I work in website optimization, which involves fixing normal-to-above-average websites so they actually achieve their objectives (turning committe-designed brochure sites into lead generators, category leaders, sales engines, or advertisements, or whatever). One of the guidelines for website optimization work is NEVER take a client who has *never* worked with an optimization firm or consultant (i.e. no newbies) and also *never* take a client who has worked with more than two optimization firms in three years. The newbies simply will not see the value and therefore won't pay well enough (in money or collaborative effort). The latter wasn't able to do it at least twice already (if you work well with an optimization firm it's a win-win for everyone, and you would most likely want to work with them again). Sure it means passing over lots of business opportunitities..... but knowing that 90% of my new business comes by referral from past (happy) customers, are they really business opoortunities? Perhaps it is better to let the seeds germinate into plants before transplanting them into the front garden. -=john John Andrews From dmintz at davidmintz.org Wed Aug 11 15:49:31 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:49:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <21471-54165@sneakemail.com> References: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> <21471-54165@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: Following up about the paranoia: I'm basing my caveat on things I observed in the translation and interpreting industry in the 1990s. Some translator/interpreter organizations like ATA (atanet.org) and AIIC (aiic.net) and NAJIT (najit.org) were given various degrees of grief by the FTC for publishing stuff about how to price things. It's wise to be careful about saying things like charge more or charge less for x or y. (But, again, if you're say Archer Daniels Midland and you fix prices and screw consumers big time on purpose, you'll get at worst a paltry $300,000,000 fine, or thereabouts.) --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ http://sdnyinterpreters.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From jv_nyphp at duikerbok.com Wed Aug 11 16:25:51 2004 From: jv_nyphp at duikerbok.com (Jose Villegas) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:25:51 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Paranoia In-Reply-To: References: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> <21471-54165@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: What about saying "I charge x for y". If I can put this on my website, is it any different than telling people on a mailing list? Membership on this list isn't restricted, so if a customer were curious, they could always sign up and see what developers are talking about. Similarly, a customer can write me and ask, "how much do you charge for y?" How different is this if I go on this list and ask, "How much do you all charge for y?" After all, we are all each other's potential customers/clients. -jose On Aug 11, 2004, at 3:49 PM, David Mintz wrote: > > Following up about the paranoia: > > I'm basing my caveat on things I observed in the translation and > interpreting industry in the 1990s. Some translator/interpreter > organizations like ATA (atanet.org) and AIIC (aiic.net) and NAJIT > (najit.org) were given various degrees of grief by the FTC for > publishing > stuff about how to price things. It's wise to be careful about saying > things like charge more or charge less for x or y. > > (But, again, if you're say Archer Daniels Midland and you fix prices > and > screw consumers big time on purpose, you'll get at worst a paltry > $300,000,000 fine, or thereabouts.) > > --- > David Mintz > http://davidmintz.org/ > http://sdnyinterpreters.org/ > > "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From dmintz at davidmintz.org Wed Aug 11 17:53:11 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Paranoia In-Reply-To: References: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> <21471-54165@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, Jose Villegas wrote: > What about saying "I charge x for y". If I can put this on my website, > is it any different than telling people on a mailing list? Membership > on this list isn't restricted, so if a customer were curious, they > could always sign up and see what developers are talking about. [...] No, I am pretty sure no one can give you a hard time about publishing your own rates. Anyway, I don't claim legal expertise on this or anything else; I do know that people have been given a hard time by the authorities for discussing how they set their prices. Take it cum grano salis, as they say... --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From chubbard at next-online.net Wed Aug 11 18:07:16 2004 From: chubbard at next-online.net (Chris Hubbard) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:07:16 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote Paranoia In-Reply-To: References: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> <21471-54165@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: Mind you there's a huge difference between discussing how you determine what you charge, versus working collaboratively to set prices that we informally agree to use. It's the collusion that is the problem, not the dissemination of information, especially in an industry that hasn't gone through rounds of aggregation, like ours. If there were two developers, then yes, it would be a problem. chris On Aug 11, 2004, at 2:53 PM, David Mintz wrote: > On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, Jose Villegas wrote: > >> What about saying "I charge x for y". If I can put this on my website, >> is it any different than telling people on a mailing list? Membership >> on this list isn't restricted, so if a customer were curious, they >> could always sign up and see what developers are talking about. [...] > > No, I am pretty sure no one can give you a hard time about publishing > your > own rates. Anyway, I don't claim legal expertise on this or anything > else; > I do know that people have been given a hard time by the authorities > for > discussing how they set their prices. Take it cum grano salis, as they > say... > > --- > David Mintz > http://davidmintz.org/ > > "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > Chris Hubbard chubbard at next-online.net 425 563 4153 From webmaster at localnotion.com Wed Aug 11 18:10:53 2004 From: webmaster at localnotion.com (Matthew Terenzio) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:10:53 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Auth sessions Message-ID: <4FDFFC45-EBE3-11D8-8CA0-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> For anyone who might be interested. I was having a problem with Auth sessions sticking and found the problem went away when the References: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> <21471-54165@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: At http://pear.php.net/package/Cache/download/ you'll notice that the changelog includes this: - Removed Cache_DB as it apparently never really worked. Ouch. I fixed one bug in it, and tried to offer my fix to the maintainers via PEAR's bug reporting system, and I was essentially ignored, so I had a hunch that it was being neglected, but... never really worked? I ran a couple of tests and profiled some code and stuff and it certainly seemed to be doing ~something~ right ... umm, such as getting data out of a filesystem cache instead of contacting the db. Anyway: what do you guys recommend? I often use shared servers where db performance sometimes sucks -- more than likely because of sloppy application coding -- and I like to be part of the solution by caching frequently requested but rarely changing data. I see Cache and Cache_Lite are out there but I'm fishing for expert opinion. --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Wed Aug 11 18:58:57 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:58:57 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <411A68A6.7020904@bitblit.net> References: <411A63AB.2070901@cyberxdesigns.com> <411A68A6.7020904@bitblit.net> Message-ID: <411AA4B1.9060408@spacemonkeylabs.com> Ajai Khattri wrote: > If we combined our paranoia, regarding our conservative government, > with our marijuana plan, you would have to move to Canada ;-) No can do. Their pool tables are way too small. -- Mitch From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Wed Aug 11 19:06:01 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:06:01 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR DB_Cache is dead? In-Reply-To: References: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> <21471-54165@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <411AA659.8080808@spacemonkeylabs.com> David Mintz wrote: >Anyway: what do you guys recommend? I often use shared servers where db >performance sometimes sucks -- more than likely because of sloppy >application coding -- and I like to be part of the solution by caching >frequently requested but rarely changing data. I see Cache and Cache_Lite >are out there but I'm fishing for expert opinion. > I am a huge fan of ADOdb's query cache - similar to MySQL's but it lives on the webserver (saving you a round trip to the data box) and is database-agnostic. However, working on the Mambo project I learned from recent posts that caching at the page level provides a bigger benefit - you cache more than just the data, you cache the generated output as well. I also learned that on underpowered webservers, ADOdb's query cache is actually a performance hit, not a gain. For each application you have to consider the usage patterns, overall architecture, and environment - but it seems pretty safe to say that you should get real cozy with PEAR's Cache_Lite... Just IMHO, of course ;-) -- Mitch From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Wed Aug 11 19:53:53 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:53:53 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? Message-ID: <411AB191.1080507@spacemonkeylabs.com> Hey gang, I am building a site where you can see how many members are logged in for each group. After looking around, I see that this is being done by forums, some CMS, and may even be integrated with PEAR's AUTH. The site uses ADOdb, and I am considering using ADOdb's session storage as it also can run user defined functions when sessions expire. So I am also certain that there are several ways to tackle this problem. Knowing that performance and scalability is an absolute must, what is the best approach? #1) In the accounts table, also have a column of 'logged_in', as a boolean; and then count the 'true's for each group. #2) Create a linked table, 'group_counts'; and store each account_id in there while the session is still active #3) ??? This group is hot enough that I am certain some of you have come up with very solid approaches to this problem - and I wanna hear them! -- Mitch From jcrawford at codebowl.com Wed Aug 11 21:07:21 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 21:07:21 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? References: <411AB191.1080507@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: <000d01c48008$b8ef7110$524a4044@codebowl> Better yet just count the files that are in your session save directory ;) i saw a tutorial i believe on weberdev.com for this use. oh and with PHP 5 you can use static properties so you could do it that way but it wouldnt decrement unless the person logged out, i think going with the session way is best. Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitch Pirtle" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 7:53 PM Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? > Hey gang, > > I am building a site where you can see how many members are logged in > for each group. After looking around, I see that this is being done by > forums, some CMS, and may even be integrated with PEAR's AUTH. The site > uses ADOdb, and I am considering using ADOdb's session storage as it > also can run user defined functions when sessions expire. > > So I am also certain that there are several ways to tackle this > problem. Knowing that performance and scalability is an absolute must, > what is the best approach? > > #1) In the accounts table, also have a column of 'logged_in', as a > boolean; and then count the 'true's for each group. > #2) Create a linked table, 'group_counts'; and store each account_id in > there while the session is still active > #3) ??? > > This group is hot enough that I am certain some of you have come up with > very solid approaches to this problem - and I wanna hear them! > > -- Mitch > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com Wed Aug 11 21:15:21 2004 From: sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 21:15:21 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: <000d01c48008$b8ef7110$524a4044@codebowl> References: <411AB191.1080507@spacemonkeylabs.com> <000d01c48008$b8ef7110$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <7646-88140@sneakemail.com> Of course you have to accept the latency.... at any given time it shows # people active as of a few minutes ago, because of uncleared yet no-longer-active sessions. Can be a problem if the community likes to see who is on and attempt to chat..... -=john Joseph Crawford Jr. jcrawford-at-codebowl.com |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: >Better yet just count the files that are in your session save directory ;) > >i saw a tutorial i believe on weberdev.com for this use. >oh and with PHP 5 you can use static properties so you could do it that way >but it wouldnt decrement unless the person logged out, i think going with >the session way is best. > >Joe Crawford Jr. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mitch Pirtle" >To: "NYPHP Talk" >Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 7:53 PM >Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? > > > > >>Hey gang, >> >>I am building a site where you can see how many members are logged in >>for each group. After looking around, I see that this is being done by >>forums, some CMS, and may even be integrated with PEAR's AUTH. The site >>uses ADOdb, and I am considering using ADOdb's session storage as it >>also can run user defined functions when sessions expire. >> >>So I am also certain that there are several ways to tackle this >>problem. Knowing that performance and scalability is an absolute must, >>what is the best approach? >> >>#1) In the accounts table, also have a column of 'logged_in', as a >>boolean; and then count the 'true's for each group. >>#2) Create a linked table, 'group_counts'; and store each account_id in >>there while the session is still active >>#3) ??? >> >>This group is hot enough that I am certain some of you have come up with >>very solid approaches to this problem - and I wanna hear them! >> >>-- Mitch >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New York PHP Talk >>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>http://www.newyorkphp.org >> >> From dmintz at davidmintz.org Wed Aug 11 22:14:29 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:14:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR DB_Cache is dead? In-Reply-To: <411AA659.8080808@spacemonkeylabs.com> References: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> <21471-54165@sneakemail.com> <411AA659.8080808@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > For each application you have to consider the usage patterns, overall > architecture, and environment - but it seems pretty safe to say that you > should get real cozy with PEAR's Cache_Lite... > > Just IMHO, of course ;-) Thanks for the $.02. Good timing: I was just starting to mess with Cache_Lite and finding it pretty cool. --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From adam at trachtenberg.com Thu Aug 12 02:48:50 2004 From: adam at trachtenberg.com (Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 02:48:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: <000d01c48008$b8ef7110$524a4044@codebowl> References: <411AB191.1080507@spacemonkeylabs.com> <000d01c48008$b8ef7110$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > oh and with PHP 5 you can use static properties so you could do it > that way but it wouldnt decrement unless the person logged out, i > think going with the session way is best. Static properties only persist for the life of a single request. So while they're shared among all instances of a class, they can't really be used in this case. -adam -- adam at trachtenberg.com author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook" avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today! From php at haberco.com Thu Aug 12 03:02:04 2004 From: php at haberco.com (Eddie Haber) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 03:02:04 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There are JavaScript and flash solutions that calculate exact seconds of every page-view. Check into those technologies. If you really wanna know as much as you can about page-view duration and user stickiness set up a socket connection between an invisible flash movie on the user's page and a simple PHP socket "page-views" server. And the funny thing is I'm not even joking. E > Hey gang, > > I am building a site where you can see how many members are logged in > for each group. After looking around, I see that this is being done by > forums, some CMS, and may even be integrated with PEAR's AUTH. The site > uses ADOdb, and I am considering using ADOdb's session storage as it > also can run user defined functions when sessions expire. > > So I am also certain that there are several ways to tackle this > problem. Knowing that performance and scalability is an absolute must, > what is the best approach? > > #1) In the accounts table, also have a column of 'logged_in', as a > boolean; and then count the 'true's for each group. > #2) Create a linked table, 'group_counts'; and store each account_id in > there while the session is still active > #3) ??? > > This group is hot enough that I am certain some of you have come up with > very solid approaches to this problem - and I wanna hear them! > > -- Mitch > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org From yvan.strahm at med.monash.edu.au Thu Aug 12 03:09:00 2004 From: yvan.strahm at med.monash.edu.au (yvan) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:09:00 +1000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] text2xml Message-ID: <7C609815-EC2E-11D8-B574-000A956ADFE6@med.monash.edu.au> Hi all, What will it be the fastest way of converting a text file into a xml one? I have several files produced all with the same architecture and want to pass them to a xml parser which feeds a database. Expect from writing a parser (again!), do you have any other ideas? Thank you yvan From nyphp at enobrev.com Thu Aug 12 08:28:56 2004 From: nyphp at enobrev.com (Mark Armendariz) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:28:56 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040812122902.6C583A8635@virtu.nyphp.org> > If you really wanna know as much as you can about page-view > duration and user stickiness set up a socket connection > between an invisible flash movie on the user's page and a > simple PHP socket "page-views" server. And the funny thing is > I'm not even joking. I've done this for 3 projects (intranets) and it worked incredibly well. The issue becomes that once you have a socket server script / app setup for such a minor task, the temptation to build something far more robust - similar to one of Colin Moock's intra-page chats, 'live' user viewers, PM's, live forums and whatever else a socket connection from every page can afford you - becomes unbearable. patServer is a pretty good start, for a php based socket server: And I put up a very basic, um, story for communicating with a socket server from flash: Mark (I'm not affiliated with the PAT people, I just really like their Socket Server and their Template Library) From list at harveyk.com Thu Aug 12 08:44:16 2004 From: list at harveyk.com (harvey) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:44:16 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] text2xml References: <7C609815-EC2E-11D8-B574-000A956ADFE6@med.monash.edu.au> Message-ID: <095201c4806a$1ca99120$0200a8c0@desktop> Google "text to xml conversion" chaperon : http://chaperon.sourceforge.net/ doc2xml: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Platform/4871/ VorteXML ($459) : http://www.vortexml.com/ xDoc XML Converter ($?) : http://www.cambridgedocs.com/products_xdoc.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "yvan" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 3:09 AM Subject: [nycphp-talk] text2xml > Hi all, > > What will it be the fastest way of converting a text file into a xml > one? > I have several files produced all with the same architecture and want > to pass them to a xml parser which feeds a database. Expect from > writing a parser (again!), do you have any other ideas? > > Thank you > > yvan > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Thu Aug 12 09:25:18 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:25:18 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: <000d01c48008$b8ef7110$524a4044@codebowl> References: <411AB191.1080507@spacemonkeylabs.com> <000d01c48008$b8ef7110$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <411B6FBE.6050607@spacemonkeylabs.com> Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: >Better yet just count the files that are in your session save directory ;) > I'd love to, but I need to aggregate those counts in groups ("125 people in group A" etc.). One of the biggest issues is lock contention on the accounts table, as it is constantly getting hammered with SELECTs ('SELECT count(*) FROM accounts WHERE group = 3 AND online = 1'), and constantly getting hammered with UPDATEs when 10,000 people show up and login ('UPDATE accounts SET online = 1 WHERE id = 12323'). Ultimately, the output would include: group 1 3,545 online group 2 4,292 online group 3 5,123 online ...and so on... The site gets over 3.5 million page views daily, and averages around 10,000 people logging in daily. Served on two dual Xeon servers, the hardware is fine, but the statistics in MySQL show that InnoDB has some major lock issues: ---------- SEMAPHORES ---------- OS WAIT ARRAY INFO: reservation count 1823, signal count 1709 Mutex spin waits 153589, rounds 772170, OS waits 437 RW-shared spins 1276, OS waits 587; RW-excl spins 531, OS waits 103 These stats were collected right after a restart in the morning, with less than 1,000 people online. I'm redesigning the site with fixes to the most glaring architectural issues (using classes instead of redundant includes scattered randomly about the filesystem is a big plus), and also will be switching to PostgreSQL ;-) So again, my biggest dilemma is deciding how to separate the account info that is static (username, email) with stuff that is constantly changing (online status, last logged in timestamp). Any pearls of wisdom out there? -- Mitch From sailer at bnl.gov Thu Aug 12 09:38:18 2004 From: sailer at bnl.gov (Tim Sailer) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:38:18 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] DB for large datasets Message-ID: <20040812133818.GA31028@bnl.gov> I'm developing an internal application that takes information about network traffic, and stores it in tables, currently MySQL, for each month. A merge table gets queried instead of having to look through each table. Now, the problem is, we're looking at more than 30M records/mo and MySQL is just barfing. I'm getting the notorious error 127 from the table handler, and bad corruption if I am foolish enough to try to delete from the tables. The backend feeding the database is perl, and the frontend, of course, is PHP. My only alternative at this point is to go to another 'robust' database like Postresql or Oracle. My inclination is Postgresql. Not having any experience lately with Postgresql, I'm turning to the collective brainpower of this group. Porting the code from MySQL to Postgresql seems straightforward. Does Postgresql have something like Merge Tables? What about performance. What does anyone thing will be the performance loss/gain on the move? It's on a 2.8Ghz P4/2G RAM machine. Thanks, Tim -- Tim Sailer Information and Special Technologies Program Office of CounterIntelligence Brookhaven National Laboratory (631) 344-3001 From webmaster at localnotion.com Thu Aug 12 09:46:00 2004 From: webmaster at localnotion.com (Matthew Terenzio) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:46:00 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: <411B6FBE.6050607@spacemonkeylabs.com> References: <411AB191.1080507@spacemonkeylabs.com> <000d01c48008$b8ef7110$524a4044@codebowl> <411B6FBE.6050607@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: On Aug 12, 2004, at 9:25 AM, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > >> Better yet just count the files that are in your session save >> directory ;) >> > > I'd love to, but I need to aggregate those counts in groups ("125 > people in group A" etc.). I haven't thought this out Mitch, but could one possibly name each group session differently and then get a count of all active sessions with each individual named session. Don't flame me anyone, but this would be a little more straight forward inside a servlet container. > > One of the biggest issues is lock contention on the accounts table, as > it is constantly getting hammered with SELECTs ('SELECT count(*) FROM > accounts WHERE group = 3 AND online = 1'), and constantly getting > hammered with UPDATEs when 10,000 people show up and login ('UPDATE > accounts SET online = 1 WHERE id = 12323'). > > Ultimately, the output would include: > > group 1 3,545 online > group 2 4,292 online > group 3 5,123 online > ...and so on... > > The site gets over 3.5 million page views daily, and averages around > 10,000 people logging in daily. Served on two dual Xeon servers, the > hardware is fine, but the statistics in MySQL show that InnoDB has > some major lock issues: > > ---------- > SEMAPHORES > ---------- > OS WAIT ARRAY INFO: reservation count 1823, signal count 1709 > Mutex spin waits 153589, rounds 772170, OS waits 437 > RW-shared spins 1276, OS waits 587; RW-excl spins 531, OS waits 103 > > > These stats were collected right after a restart in the morning, with > less than 1,000 people online. > > I'm redesigning the site with fixes to the most glaring architectural > issues (using classes instead of redundant includes scattered randomly > about the filesystem is a big plus), and also will be switching to > PostgreSQL ;-) > > So again, my biggest dilemma is deciding how to separate the account > info that is static (username, email) with stuff that is constantly > changing (online status, last logged in timestamp). Any pearls of > wisdom out there? > > -- Mitch > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org From webmaster at localnotion.com Thu Aug 12 09:51:21 2004 From: webmaster at localnotion.com (Matthew Terenzio) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:51:21 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] DB for large datasets In-Reply-To: <20040812133818.GA31028@bnl.gov> References: <20040812133818.GA31028@bnl.gov> Message-ID: Postgres or Oracle .........that should work ; ) On Aug 12, 2004, at 9:38 AM, Tim Sailer wrote: > I'm developing an internal application that takes information about > network traffic, and stores it in tables, currently MySQL, for each > month. A merge table gets queried instead of having to look through > each table. Now, the problem is, we're looking at more than 30M > records/mo > and MySQL is just barfing. I'm getting the notorious error 127 from the > table handler, and bad corruption if I am foolish enough to try to > delete > from the tables. The backend feeding the database is perl, and the > frontend, > of course, is PHP. My only alternative at this point is to go to > another > 'robust' database like Postresql or Oracle. My inclination is > Postgresql. > Not having any experience lately with Postgresql, I'm turning to the > collective > brainpower of this group. Porting the code from MySQL to Postgresql > seems > straightforward. Does Postgresql have something like Merge Tables? What > about performance. What does anyone thing will be the performance > loss/gain > on the move? It's on a 2.8Ghz P4/2G RAM machine. > > Thanks, > Tim > > -- > Tim Sailer > Information and Special Technologies Program > Office of CounterIntelligence > Brookhaven National Laboratory (631) 344-3001 > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org From sailer at bnl.gov Thu Aug 12 09:58:40 2004 From: sailer at bnl.gov (Tim Sailer) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:58:40 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] DB for large datasets In-Reply-To: References: <20040812133818.GA31028@bnl.gov> Message-ID: <20040812135840.GA702@bnl.gov> On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 09:51:21AM -0400, Matthew Terenzio wrote: > Postgres or Oracle .........that should work ; ) Well, if Oracle didn't work, I'd be surprised. However, the data stream is quite large, and the Oracle server I'd have to use would be not on the local machine, which, in my uninformed opinion, would be a bottleneck itself. Anything local should be better. I'm hoping that Postgres will work. I guess I can use a view instead of a Merge table... Tim -- Tim Sailer Information and Special Technologies Program Office of CounterIntelligence Brookhaven National Laboratory (631) 344-3001 From tgales at tgaconnect.com Thu Aug 12 10:14:50 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:14:50 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] DB for large datasets In-Reply-To: <20040812133818.GA31028@bnl.gov> Message-ID: <000401c48076$bb124710$e98d3818@oberon1> Tim Sailer writes: "...I'm getting the notorious error 127 from the table > handler, and bad corruption if I am foolish enough to try to > delete from the tables." Have you considered preprocessing/aggregating the information for the most popular queries? What I am suggesting is creating some redundant and somewhat out of date (perhaps good up to the day before) tables which sum up data for the current month. This is assuming the queries wouldn't need up to minute information and would be sort of 'same old selects' in nature. T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From sailer at bnl.gov Thu Aug 12 10:30:01 2004 From: sailer at bnl.gov (Tim Sailer) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:30:01 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] DB for large datasets In-Reply-To: <000401c48076$bb124710$e98d3818@oberon1> References: <20040812133818.GA31028@bnl.gov> <000401c48076$bb124710$e98d3818@oberon1> Message-ID: <20040812143001.GB2513@bnl.gov> On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 10:14:50AM -0400, Tim Gales wrote: > Tim Sailer writes: > > "...I'm getting the notorious error 127 from the table > > handler, and bad corruption if I am foolish enough to try to > > delete from the tables." > > Have you considered preprocessing/aggregating the > information for the most popular queries? Yup, it's not feasable. > What I am suggesting is creating some redundant > and somewhat out of date (perhaps good up to the day before) > tables which sum up data for the current month. Some of what I'm storing is data from one of our network sensors that show every connection, src and dst IPs. For each month, I'm building a table that has a unique record for every pair, no matter how many times the connection was made. querying for an ip, whether src or dst, there's just no way of preprocessing that. Also, combined volume of traffic for each record is stored. It's adding up to quite a few records... Tim -- Tim Sailer Information and Special Technologies Program Office of CounterIntelligence Brookhaven National Laboratory (631) 344-3001 From smanes at magpie.com Thu Aug 12 11:01:29 2004 From: smanes at magpie.com (Steve Manes) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:01:29 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] DB for large datasets In-Reply-To: <20040812135840.GA702@bnl.gov> References: <20040812133818.GA31028@bnl.gov> <20040812135840.GA702@bnl.gov> Message-ID: <411B8649.2070108@magpie.com> Tim Sailer wrote: > Well, if Oracle didn't work, I'd be surprised. However, the data > stream is quite large, and the Oracle server I'd have to use would be > not on the local machine, which, in my uninformed opinion, would be a > bottleneck itself. Anything local should be better. I'm hoping that > Postgres will work. We're using PostgreSQL 7.3 on Trafficmac to do ad trafficking and maintain ad and banner statistics/billing for some very busy web sites (FoxNews, Wall Street Journal, MSN, SmartMoney) and it's not failed us yet, and these are shared servers running on commodity hardware. Databases should run on dedicated servers anyway where, if nothing else, they're not in competition with other services for resources and where you can add more web servers as traffic increases. From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Thu Aug 12 11:40:39 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:40:39 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: <411AB191.1080507@spacemonkeylabs.com> References: <411AB191.1080507@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: <20040812154039.GA7673@panix.com> Hi Mitch: Have a table with two columns: group_name and group_count. Each time someone logs in, update the group_count column with group_count+1 for the appropriate group_name. When someone logs out, do a -1. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Thu Aug 12 11:47:19 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:47:19 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: <20040812154039.GA7673@panix.com> References: <411AB191.1080507@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040812154039.GA7673@panix.com> Message-ID: <411B9107.8030907@spacemonkeylabs.com> Daniel Convissor wrote: >Hi Mitch: > >Have a table with two columns: group_name and group_count. Each time >someone logs in, update the group_count column with group_count+1 for >the appropriate group_name. When someone logs out, do a -1. > > And if they don't hit the 'logout' button? -- Mitch, still trying to grok session expiration notification in PHP From preinheimer at gmail.com Thu Aug 12 12:08:35 2004 From: preinheimer at gmail.com (Paul Reinheimer) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:08:35 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Auth sessions In-Reply-To: <4FDFFC45-EBE3-11D8-8CA0-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> References: <4FDFFC45-EBE3-11D8-8CA0-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> Message-ID: <6ec19ec704081209085ed7a319@mail.gmail.com> Can you expand a bit more on what the problem was? Before wrote: > For anyone who might be interested. I was having a problem with Auth > sessions sticking and found the problem went away when the was on line 1. > > It also broke when I put the tag on line 1 of a file and then included > that file into another page. > > Can anyone verify that this is actually the way it works? It seems > like you would want to have one login.php file that gets included > around the site but uhhh..... > > Matt Terenzio > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Thu Aug 12 12:19:22 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:19:22 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: <411B9107.8030907@spacemonkeylabs.com> References: <411AB191.1080507@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040812154039.GA7673@panix.com> <411B9107.8030907@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: <20040812161922.GA14229@panix.com> On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 11:47:19AM -0400, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > > And if they don't hit the 'logout' button? The same problem exists when doing the sums you mentioned doing in your earlier posts. There needs to be an automatic way to log out timed out scripts and that process should do the decrement. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From lists at prusak.com Thu Aug 12 12:49:43 2004 From: lists at prusak.com (ophir prusak) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:49:43 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: <411B9107.8030907@spacemonkeylabs.com> References: <411AB191.1080507@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040812154039.GA7673@panix.com> <411B9107.8030907@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: <411B9FA7.5060201@prusak.com> Counting online users is really two problems: 1. How do you know when a user is "online" 2. How do you efficiently store the online user count. Regarding how do you know when a user is online, there is no simple and accurate way of knowing how many users currently have their browser open and are viewing a page on the site with standard HTML pages. (yes, technically you could use flash/java and open a socket connection but that would be an extreme resource hog just for online user counts). First of all, you need to ask yourself how YOU define an online user. Most people define a user to be online if they've *requested* a page within the last X minutes. I've seen values from 2 to 30 minutes. Regarding how to store the info, a problem like this is just asking for a local memory based solution, but since you said the site runs on two servers the simplest solution would be to use a MySQL HEAP (memory) table with 3 columns: username/ID, group and last seen. Even with 40,000 people online at a time the used memory will be minimal. You should not be updating your accounts table (which is probably very big) to store online info. Then, every 5 minutes delete from table where last seen > 10 minute ago. Instead of updating the last seen column EVERY time a logged in user views a page, store a cookie that says when they last told the server they were seen. If it's over 5 minutes, then update the database. That way you're guaranteed at most one update per online user per 5 minutes. Hope that helps, Ophir Prusak (I really need a sig) Mitch Pirtle wrote: > Daniel Convissor wrote: > >> Hi Mitch: >> >> Have a table with two columns: group_name and group_count. Each time >> someone logs in, update the group_count column with group_count+1 for >> the appropriate group_name. When someone logs out, do a -1. >> >> > > And if they don't hit the 'logout' button? > > -- Mitch, still trying to grok session expiration notification in PHP > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From smanes at magpie.com Thu Aug 12 13:08:20 2004 From: smanes at magpie.com (Steve Manes) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:08:20 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: <411B9FA7.5060201@prusak.com> References: <411AB191.1080507@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040812154039.GA7673@panix.com> <411B9107.8030907@spacemonkeylabs.com> <411B9FA7.5060201@prusak.com> Message-ID: <411BA404.6020405@magpie.com> ophir prusak wrote: > Then, every 5 minutes delete from table where last seen > 10 minute ago. > Instead of updating the last seen column EVERY time a logged in user > views a page, store a cookie that says when they last told the server > they were seen. > If it's over 5 minutes, then update the database. That way you're > guaranteed at most one update per online user per 5 minutes. Good solution. Another, somewhat wackier one is to embed a 1x1 on each page, its argument being the user's authenticated login name. This would make a request to a dedicated server running either a script or possibly an Apache module that would extract the username and update a heap table with the current time. Every couple of minutes the table of usernames would be dumped to an HTML file for display in your "Who's On" list. Every 30 minutes or so, a script would purge names with last-request times > 30 minutes. This presumes a dynamic web site. What's nice about this approach is that it's decoupled from your main web site and database, which doesn't have to do anything to maintain that list. From php at haberco.com Thu Aug 12 13:19:02 2004 From: php at haberco.com (Eddie Haber) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:19:02 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Auth sessions In-Reply-To: <6ec19ec704081209085ed7a319@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Forgive me if you have already tried this, but I find when odd problems like this creep up it's from either: 1) text gremlins from a copy/paste off the web: invisible ascii characters used for spacing on web pages that cause execution errors in scripts (or) 2) bad line-feeds. Unix is \n, but sometimes you'll see \r It's probably not this, but doesn't hurt to rule it out on all apparently inexplicable problems. Hope it helps, Eddie On 8/12/04 12:08 PM, "Paul Reinheimer" wrote: > Can you expand a bit more on what the problem was? Before line 1, what was there? > > > paul > > > On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:10:53 -0400, Matthew Terenzio > wrote: >> For anyone who might be interested. I was having a problem with Auth >> sessions sticking and found the problem went away when the > was on line 1. >> >> It also broke when I put the tag on line 1 of a file and then included >> that file into another page. >> >> Can anyone verify that this is actually the way it works? It seems >> like you would want to have one login.php file that gets included >> around the site but uhhh..... >> >> Matt Terenzio >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Talk >> Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> http://www.newyorkphp.org >> > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org From shiflett at php.net Thu Aug 12 13:24:41 2004 From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:24:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Security Workbook Message-ID: <20040812172441.30610.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> I never really mentioned it here, but for anyone who is interested, I made a PDF available of the workbook for my OSCON tutorial, PHP Security: http://shiflett.org/php-security.pdf Let me know if you notice any errors or other bad stuff. Well, let me know if you find any good stuff, too. :-) Chris ===== Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ PHP Security - O'Reilly Coming Fall 2004 HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams http://httphandbook.org/ PHP Community Site http://phpcommunity.org/ From ajai at bitblit.net Thu Aug 12 14:02:14 2004 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:02:14 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <411BB0A6.7070203@bitblit.net> Eddie Haber wrote: >If you really wanna know as much as you can about page-view duration and >user stickiness set up a socket connection between an invisible flash movie >on the user's page and a simple PHP socket "page-views" server. And the >funny thing is I'm not even joking. > Of course, you would have to record the connecting IP on the first page request and keep track of that on the server to reduce the likelyhood of it being spoofed... -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer From ajai at bitblit.net Thu Aug 12 14:12:32 2004 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:12:32 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Files or BLOBs?? Message-ID: <411BB310.9060404@bitblit.net> Im planning a web-based application where users upload text files to a site where they are stored and can be searched, viewed, edited, etc. My first instinct is to use some database to make indexing and searching nice and fast. However, each file can vary from 26K to 35K - and I think this is rather large to store in a column in MySQL so maybe I will have to use files and use MySQL to store meta-data about the file. What do you guys consider a good approach for this sort of thing? -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer From ajai at bitblit.net Thu Aug 12 14:18:28 2004 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:18:28 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: <20040812161922.GA14229@panix.com> References: <411AB191.1080507@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040812154039.GA7673@panix.com> <411B9107.8030907@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040812161922.GA14229@panix.com> Message-ID: <411BB474.2050908@bitblit.net> Daniel Convissor wrote: >The same problem exists when doing the sums you mentioned doing in >your earlier posts. There needs to be an automatic way to log out >timed out scripts and that process should do the decrement. > Maybe a script run from cron every few mins that marks old entries as "logged out" ? -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer From ajai at bitblit.net Thu Aug 12 14:19:35 2004 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:19:35 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: <411BA404.6020405@magpie.com> References: <411AB191.1080507@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040812154039.GA7673@panix.com> <411B9107.8030907@spacemonkeylabs.com> <411B9FA7.5060201@prusak.com> <411BA404.6020405@magpie.com> Message-ID: <411BB4B7.6060905@bitblit.net> Steve Manes wrote: > Another, somewhat wackier one is to embed a 1x1 on each page, its > argument being the user's authenticated login name. And if the image is cached by the browser? -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer From joel at tagword.com Thu Aug 12 14:41:28 2004 From: joel at tagword.com (Joel De Gan) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:41:28 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Files or BLOBs?? In-Reply-To: <411BB310.9060404@bitblit.net> References: <411BB310.9060404@bitblit.net> Message-ID: <1092336087.7528.113.camel@bezel> Well, depending on size. type max size ------------ ------------- TINYBLOB 255 BLOB 65_535 MEDIUMBLOB 16_777_215 LARGEBLOB 4_294_967_295 cheers -joeldg On Thu, 2004-08-12 at 18:12, Ajai Khattri wrote: > Im planning a web-based application where users upload text files to a > site where they are stored and can be searched, viewed, edited, etc. My > first instinct is to use some database to make indexing and searching > nice and fast. However, each file can vary from 26K to 35K - and I think > this is rather large to store in a column in MySQL so maybe I will have > to use files and use MySQL to store meta-data about the file. What do > you guys consider a good approach for this sort of thing? -- joeldg - developer, Intercosmos media group. http://lucifer.intercosmos.net From patrick.fee at baesystems.com Thu Aug 12 14:46:32 2004 From: patrick.fee at baesystems.com (Fee, Patrick J (US SSA)) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:46:32 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Files or BLOBs?? Message-ID: <728813C3358BF04CB3A3DA2341D44A71015E60FC@e2k11.na.baesystems.com> Aj, What about a verity search? The later versions of the verity search engine is a LOT less buggy that the earlier versions. And then you also open the door to searching other binary files as well (e.g.:Word, Excel, Powerpoint, PDF files that have been OCR'd). Then you could keep the files in a directory stucture rather than as BLOBs or CLOBs. The only drawback is that you might need two search queries... one for information kept in a db (certain file information or other unrelated info) and another for the files indexed by the Verity search engine. In my work with ColdFusion, the last couple of versions allow for a Select query that has multiple searches in one query (e.g. search this db and then do this Verity search and return the aggregate results into one page). Perhaps php may have a simiar query method? Just some Thursday afternoon musings..... Patrick J. Fee 202-203-6950 (desk) 240-401-6820 (cell) BAE SYSTEMS Patrick.Fee at BAESystems.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Ajai Khattri Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:13 PM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: [nycphp-talk] Files or BLOBs?? Im planning a web-based application where users upload text files to a site where they are stored and can be searched, viewed, edited, etc. My first instinct is to use some database to make indexing and searching nice and fast. However, each file can vary from 26K to 35K - and I think this is rather large to store in a column in MySQL so maybe I will have to use files and use MySQL to store meta-data about the file. What do you guys consider a good approach for this sort of thing? -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From php at haberco.com Thu Aug 12 14:59:17 2004 From: php at haberco.com (Eddie Haber) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:59:17 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: <411BB4B7.6060905@bitblit.net> Message-ID: You can always attach a unique id to avoid caching: '""' Even better, You can email these gifs to people and track when they read your emails. Yikes! E PS: I don't know if browsers cache to the left of the "?" only in the URL or the whole URL, but you could either additionally: a) pass the id info to the script as additional path info (I think PHP still supports this), eg:../trojan_images/listener.php/poor_sap at bigbrother.com/SOME_UNIQUE_ID b) Or, use apache's mod rewrite: .../trojan_images/listener/poor_sap at bitbrother.com/SOME_UNIQUE_ID gets rewritten as: .../trojan_images/listener.php?email=poor_sap at bigbrother.com&uniqueid=SOME_U NIQUE_ID On 8/12/04 2:19 PM, "Ajai Khattri" wrote: > Steve Manes wrote: > >> Another, somewhat wackier one is to embed a 1x1 on each page, its >> argument being the user's authenticated login name. > > > And if the image is cached by the browser? From ajai at bitblit.net Thu Aug 12 15:04:15 2004 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:04:15 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <411BBF2F.5040102@bitblit.net> Eddie Haber wrote: >You can always attach a unique id to avoid caching: > >'"src="http://www.spyware.com/trojan_images/listener.php?login=poor_sap at bigbro >ther.com&uniqueid='.md5(uniqid()).'" height="1" width="1">"' > >Even better, You can email these gifs to people and track when they read >your emails. > Yep - this why Im loathe to open spam messages since spammers could track images in HTML-formatted email and see if you read their email. Luckily, with the preferences setup the right way in Mozilla you can mark a message as spam without ever opening it - this has helped train my Bayesian filter pretty well now. I also note, in 1.7 (maybe it was in 1.6 too) a new preference under Privacy: "Do not load images in mail and newsgroup messages" which can also guard against this kind of thing... -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer From ajai at bitblit.net Thu Aug 12 15:05:58 2004 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:05:58 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Files or BLOBs?? In-Reply-To: <728813C3358BF04CB3A3DA2341D44A71015E60FC@e2k11.na.baesystems.com> References: <728813C3358BF04CB3A3DA2341D44A71015E60FC@e2k11.na.baesystems.com> Message-ID: <411BBF96.4060507@bitblit.net> Fee, Patrick J (US SSA) wrote: >What about a verity search? The later versions of the verity search engine is a LOT less buggy that the earlier versions. And then you also open the door to searching other binary files as well (e.g.:Word, Excel, Powerpoint, PDF files that have been OCR'd). Then you could keep the files in a directory stucture rather than as BLOBs or CLOBs. > The only problem being that Verity is kind of expensive and Im building a free community site... -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer From dmintz at davidmintz.org Thu Aug 12 16:03:10 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:03:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] nasty img tags (was: Hmm, how to count 'online' users?) In-Reply-To: <411BBF2F.5040102@bitblit.net> References: <411BBF2F.5040102@bitblit.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Ajai Khattri wrote: > Eddie Haber wrote: > > > >Even better, You can email these gifs to people and track when they read > >your emails. Funny, I misread this as "email these gifts" the first time and thought it was irony. > Yep - this why Im loathe to open spam messages since spammers could > track images in HTML-formatted email and see if you read their email. Unless you're like me and use an uncool mail client like Pine... Then you can consider in private whether you want a bigger one, if you're of a mind to. --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From john at coggeshall.org Thu Aug 12 16:06:43 2004 From: john at coggeshall.org (John Coggeshall) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:06:43 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hey Everyone Message-ID: <1092341203.4357.3.camel@unix-101-34.hq.communityconnect.com> Hey everyone: I finally got around to subscribing to this list, and wanted to just drop a note and say hello! I don't know who all here knows me (a bunch of you do), but I just moved shop from Michigan to NYC and am planning on getting involved in NYPHP in whatever ways I can find time for. I was thinking about giving a talk if there is a slot open sometime on something or another... but we can figure that all out later. So anyway! Hey guys :) John From nyphp at enobrev.com Thu Aug 12 16:09:37 2004 From: nyphp at enobrev.com (Mark Armendariz) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:09:37 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040812200945.AB8EBA8635@virtu.nyphp.org> > Even better, You can email these gifs to people and track > when they read your emails. This is becoming less reliable. Since the obvious advantage to spammers, so they know you've seen their email, email clients are beginning to block images pending image download approval. Outlook 03 does this (which I'm grateful for), and I recall yahoo doing it as well. I figure hotmail and gmail will if they don't already, and I'm sure other email clients should/will soon. > PS: I don't know if browsers cache to the left of the "?" > only in the URL or the whole URL, but you could either additionally: IE and firefox definitely do, and I believe the other majors do as well. It's a known method to use when working with flash to ensure your flash movies are never cached (for site upgrades). Mark From ajai at bitblit.net Thu Aug 12 16:11:27 2004 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:11:27 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] nasty img tags In-Reply-To: References: <411BBF2F.5040102@bitblit.net> Message-ID: <411BCEEF.3090800@bitblit.net> David Mintz wrote: >Unless you're like me and use an uncool mail client like Pine... Then >you can consider in private whether you want a bigger one, if you're of a >mind to. > Pine is great for reading email on the server directly - I use it all the time for work. (Being impervious to virii and HTML tricks is majorly cool in my book). -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer From ajai at bitblit.net Thu Aug 12 16:13:16 2004 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:13:16 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: <20040812200945.AB8EBA8635@virtu.nyphp.org> References: <20040812200945.AB8EBA8635@virtu.nyphp.org> Message-ID: <411BCF5C.9060801@bitblit.net> Mark Armendariz wrote: >This is becoming less reliable. Since the obvious advantage to spammers, so >they know you've seen their email, email clients are beginning to block >images pending image download approval. Outlook 03 does this (which I'm >grateful for) > Why use Outlook for anything? Is this corporate mandate or what? Many people are still using the old OutLook and so get infected and spammed constantly. -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer From smanes at magpie.com Thu Aug 12 16:23:34 2004 From: smanes at magpie.com (Steve Manes) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:23:34 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: <411BB4B7.6060905@bitblit.net> References: <411AB191.1080507@spacemonkeylabs.com> <20040812154039.GA7673@panix.com> <411B9107.8030907@spacemonkeylabs.com> <411B9FA7.5060201@prusak.com> <411BA404.6020405@magpie.com> <411BB4B7.6060905@bitblit.net> Message-ID: <411BD1C6.6000805@magpie.com> Ajai Khattri wrote: >> Another, somewhat wackier one is to embed a 1x1 on each page, its >> argument being the user's authenticated login name. > > And if the image is cached by the browser? Set the http header instructing the browser not to cache it. From nyphp at enobrev.com Thu Aug 12 16:53:35 2004 From: nyphp at enobrev.com (Mark Armendariz) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:53:35 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: <411BCF5C.9060801@bitblit.net> Message-ID: <20040812205344.3FA0AA85FE@virtu.nyphp.org> > Why use Outlook for anything? Is this corporate mandate or > what? Many people are still using the old OutLook and so get > infected and spammed constantly. I'm not a huge fan of MS for lots of reasons, security being a big one, BUT, I feel outlook 03 is by far one of the best email clients I've ever used (and I've tried at least 30 windows email clients - large and small). Personally, I've had no security issues with it (thus far). I tend not to recommend it (hold this reply) as I know MS can hardly be trusted, but until the day I can get similar or better functionality from another developer, I have to stick with it for email. From lists at prusak.com Thu Aug 12 17:28:34 2004 From: lists at prusak.com (ophir prusak) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:28:34 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hey Everyone In-Reply-To: <1092341203.4357.3.camel@unix-101-34.hq.communityconnect.com> References: <1092341203.4357.3.camel@unix-101-34.hq.communityconnect.com> Message-ID: <411BE102.1020902@prusak.com> John Coggeshall wrote: >Hey everyone: > >I finally got around to subscribing to this list, and wanted to just >drop a note and say hello! I don't know who all here knows me (a bunch >of you do), but I just moved shop from Michigan to NYC and am planning >on getting involved in NYPHP in whatever ways I can find time for. I was >thinking about giving a talk if there is a slot open sometime on >something or another... but we can figure that all out later. > >So anyway! Hey guys :) > >John > > >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu Thu Aug 12 17:30:18 2004 From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:30:18 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR DB_Cache is dead? In-Reply-To: References: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> <21471-54165@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <411BE16A.60309@mlug.missouri.edu> >umm, such as getting data out of a filesystem cache instead of contacting the db. > >Anyway: what do you guys recommend? I often use shared servers where db >performance sometimes sucks -- more than likely because of sloppy >application coding -- and I like to be part of the solution by caching >frequently requested but rarely changing data. I see Cache and Cache_Lite >are out there but I'm fishing for expert opinion. > > Can you run a db or SQLlite on your local server? Rather than resort to flat files I like to keep a small cache db with a copy of any recent data in it. Such that my code tries the cache db first and if there isn't a copy of the data there then it connects to the regular db and tries running the query. Obviously each result from the regular db is cached after use and periodically I run a command on the cache to erase outdated data. I've found this is especially useful for working with paged data such as search results. This way the results won't change as the user flips pages of results which is something I find annoying when using websites. My db layout is pretty simple usually. A field for the query, a field for the timestamp, and a field for the result. Then I create one such row for each result for that query. Another option I sometimes use is writing an XML-RPC interface to each of my db queries and then letting my app talk to the db through that interface. Because XML-RPC usually runs over HTTP you can easily set the cache life of the result. Then simply run a proxy (such as Squid) between your app and your db. I rather like this method because it removes all db logic from my apps and means I don't have to have any open ports to my db at all. Just let the db server's local web server talk to the db. It also means that if you want to create other interfaces to the db that you can write those interfaces in any language that has an XML-RPC library and you don't have to duplicate any queries. -- Michael http://kavlon.org From jlacey at att.net Thu Aug 12 17:39:30 2004 From: jlacey at att.net (John Lacey) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:39:30 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hey Everyone In-Reply-To: <1092341203.4357.3.camel@unix-101-34.hq.communityconnect.com> References: <1092341203.4357.3.camel@unix-101-34.hq.communityconnect.com> Message-ID: <411BE392.2010006@att.net> John Coggeshall wrote: > Hey everyone: > > I finally got around to subscribing to this list, and wanted to just > drop a note and say hello! I don't know who all here knows me (a bunch > of you do), but I just moved shop from Michigan to NYC and am planning > on getting involved in NYPHP in whatever ways I can find time for. I was > thinking about giving a talk if there is a slot open sometime on > something or another... but we can figure that all out later. > welcome... nice name :) John From lists at neoncowboy.com Thu Aug 12 17:49:42 2004 From: lists at neoncowboy.com (John Corry) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:49:42 -1000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Selecting unix timestamp from MySQL (3.x) datetime field In-Reply-To: <411BE16A.60309@mlug.missouri.edu> Message-ID: <20040812214944.0E8AAA85FE@virtu.nyphp.org> I wish this were a DATE_FORMAT option... How do I turn a MySQL DATETIME field (0000-00-00 00:00) into a Unix timestamp? Strtotime() choked. From jlacey at att.net Thu Aug 12 17:56:47 2004 From: jlacey at att.net (John Lacey) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:56:47 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Selecting unix timestamp from MySQL (3.x) datetime field In-Reply-To: <20040812214944.0E8AAA85FE@virtu.nyphp.org> References: <20040812214944.0E8AAA85FE@virtu.nyphp.org> Message-ID: <411BE79F.3090405@att.net> John Corry wrote: > I wish this were a DATE_FORMAT option... > > How do I turn a MySQL DATETIME field (0000-00-00 00:00) into a Unix > timestamp? > > Strtotime() choked. a MySQL function: UNIX_TIMESTAMP('0000-00-00 blah...') John From lists at neoncowboy.com Thu Aug 12 18:10:47 2004 From: lists at neoncowboy.com (John Corry) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:10:47 -1000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Selecting unix timestamp from MySQL (3.x) datetimefield In-Reply-To: <411BE79F.3090405@att.net> Message-ID: <20040812221047.DFD2BA85FE@virtu.nyphp.org> Doh, thanks. > UNIX_TIMESTAMP('0000-00-00 blah...') > > John From webmaster at localnotion.com Thu Aug 12 18:57:14 2004 From: webmaster at localnotion.com (Matthew Terenzio) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:57:14 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Auth sessions In-Reply-To: <6ec19ec704081209085ed7a319@mail.gmail.com> References: <4FDFFC45-EBE3-11D8-8CA0-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> <6ec19ec704081209085ed7a319@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 12, 2004, at 12:08 PM, Paul Reinheimer wrote: > Can you expand a bit more on what the problem was? Before line 1, what was there? Sorry, this is really a follow up to another thread which was discussing the problem. But basically that was it, Authentication was working, but not the session portion. In other words, I had to re-login whenever I refreshed the page. At that time, I had the Auth logic embedded or included into the middle of some other HTML. When I moved it to the top of the page, the session portion worked fine. I thought this was odd and not very flexible, but the trick, I guess, is to include the Auth classes at the VERY top and do a $a->start(); and you put other Auth logic anywhere on the page. But, still that seems to me that if you want the login form somewhere else but the top, you need to use a custom login form, not the Auth generated one, but I haven't played with it enough to see if there is a way around that as well. Matt terenzio > > > paul > > > On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:10:53 -0400, Matthew Terenzio > wrote: >> For anyone who might be interested. I was having a problem with Auth >> sessions sticking and found the problem went away when the > was on line 1. >> >> It also broke when I put the tag on line 1 of a file and then included >> that file into another page. >> >> Can anyone verify that this is actually the way it works? It seems >> like you would want to have one login.php file that gets included >> around the site but uhhh..... >> >> Matt Terenzio >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Talk >> Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> http://www.newyorkphp.org >> > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org From joshmccormack at travelersdiary.com Thu Aug 12 19:41:19 2004 From: joshmccormack at travelersdiary.com (Josh McCormack) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 19:41:19 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <1092236089.25399.17.camel@brian.vermonster.com> References: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> <1092236089.25399.17.camel@brian.vermonster.com> Message-ID: <411C001F.7010302@travelersdiary.com> Be very, very careful when you encounter small business owners who don't really understand what's involved in programming. If there's any way in the world you can do it, charge by the hour. They will call you about everything, expect everything to be done fast, change their mind constantly, and think they're doing you a big favor. If they think your quote was way out of bounds this might be a sign to move on. Delivering pizzas or making coffee at Starbucks could end up being more profitable and less ulcer inducing in the end. Josh Brian Kaney wrote: > It is really hard to tell without reading a specification or proposal. > There is quite a range out there from a $1k to $100k-plus. Consider if > you need to hire a designer that could cost upward of $5k. How much > back-end integration and automation is required for instance, etc...but > this brings up a topic we deal with every day. > > One thing that drives me crazy about some small/mid business owners is > their cost expectation. A SMB owner can purchase an entire > office-productivity suite for less than $500. An accounting system for > $300. So when they need integrated and custom work, it is a pretty big > leap for them to drop multi-$k for a project. > > It really comes down to setting expectations as early as possible (so > you don't waste hours researching and deploying). In the initial > meeting with the client, I've found just asking for their budget is very > useful. > > - Brian > > > On Wed, 2004-08-11 at 10:34, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > >>Guys i have put in a quote for a site similar to >> >>http://www.novica.com/ >> >>and the person said the quote was way too much, my quote was $25,000 >>for the entire site to be done that is tax free for them, meaning i am >>paying my own taxes. Thier site included a ton of statistic features >>and quickbooks report integration etc... >> >>Do you guys think i quoted high or low? >> >>Joe Crawford Jr. >> >>______________________________________________________________________ >>_______________________________________________ >>New York PHP Talk >>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From gmanon at gmanon.com Thu Aug 12 20:43:52 2004 From: gmanon at gmanon.com (Guillermina Manon) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:43:52 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Signing PHP applications. Message-ID: <411C0EC8.8070100@gmanon.com> Hello there, I've seen programmers certificates for C++, Java, and even for JavaScript, but what about PHP? It's there any entity who sells programmer certificates for PHP? How PHP programmers sign their applications? It's gpg the only way to do it? Please, thanks in advance for any information regarding to this. Guillermina From LeeEyerman at aol.com Thu Aug 12 20:46:57 2004 From: LeeEyerman at aol.com (LeeEyerman at aol.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:46:57 EDT Subject: [nycphp-talk] SMTP Issues with Linux and Windows 2003 Message-ID: I am working with a client who has a LINUX server for web serving, ftp, etc, and a Windows 2003 internal network. The internal network is very simple. Basically a couple of small MS workgroups attached to a Windows 2003 server. When setting up Outlook to talk to the LINUX server, I am able to retrieve messages over POP3 without a problem. However, I cannot send SMTP messages. I get various SMTP errors from the LINUX server. Has anyone encountered this? Any help would be very greatly appreciated. Thank you -Lee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tgales at tgaconnect.com Thu Aug 12 20:53:16 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:53:16 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] SMTP Issues with Linux and Windows 2003 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002401c480cf$eced5960$e98d3818@oberon1> LeeEyerman writes: "... I cannot send SMTP messages. I get various SMTP errors from the LINUX server." What errors do get exactly? T. Gales & Associates Helping People Connect with Technology http://www.tgaconnect.com From adam at trachtenberg.com Thu Aug 12 21:11:46 2004 From: adam at trachtenberg.com (Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] SMTP Issues with Linux and Windows 2003 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 LeeEyerman at aol.com wrote: > I am working with a client who has a LINUX server for web serving, ftp, etc, > and a Windows 2003 internal network. The internal network is very simple. > Basically a couple of small MS workgroups attached to a Windows 2003 server. > > When setting up Outlook to talk to the LINUX server, I am able to retrieve > messages over POP3 without a problem. However, I cannot send SMTP messages. > I get various SMTP errors from the LINUX server. Hello Lee -- What version of PHP are you using? -adam -- adam at trachtenberg.com author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook" avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today! From LeeEyerman at aol.com Thu Aug 12 21:30:44 2004 From: LeeEyerman at aol.com (LeeEyerman at aol.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:30:44 EDT Subject: [nycphp-talk] SMTP Issues with Linux and Windows 2003 Message-ID: <6.305bd7d1.2e4d73c4@aol.com> Error messages received in the Outlook Errors panel. First: Specified server was found, but there was no response from the server. Please verify that the port and SSL information is correct. Second" Outlook cannot connect to the outgoing SMTP. The problem could be the server name or port, pr your ser ver may not support SSL. Verify your port and SSL settings in More Setting under the Advanced Tab. Third: Unable to Connect to the server: Account: vesc-education.com, SMTP Server: 'vesc-education.com', Error Number: 0x800ccc0e Let me know if you could offer any help. I am at wits end. Thank again, Lee In a message dated 8/12/2004 8:53:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tgales at tgaconnect.com writes: LeeEyerman writes: "... I cannot send SMTP messages. I get various SMTP errors from the LINUX server." What errors do get exactly? T. Gales & Associates Helping People Connect with Technology http://www.tgaconnect.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From LeeEyerman at aol.com Thu Aug 12 21:31:29 2004 From: LeeEyerman at aol.com (LeeEyerman at aol.com) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:31:29 EDT Subject: [nycphp-talk] SMTP Issues with Linux and Windows 2003 Message-ID: Usually 4+ why? I have not gotten into 5 yet. In a message dated 8/12/2004 9:12:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, adam at trachtenberg.com writes: Hello Lee -- What version of PHP are you using? -adam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tgales at tgaconnect.com Thu Aug 12 21:39:28 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:39:28 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] SMTP Issues with Linux and Windows 2003 In-Reply-To: <6.305bd7d1.2e4d73c4@aol.com> Message-ID: <003301c480d6$5fd619c0$e98d3818@oberon1> LeeEyerman writes: Error messages received in the Outlook Errors panel. First: Specified server was found, but there was no response from the server. Please verify that the port and SSL information is correct. Second" Outlook cannot connect to the outgoing SMTP. The problem could be the server name or port, pr your ser ver may not support SSL. Verify your port and SSL settings in More Setting under the Advanced Tab. Third: Unable to Connect to the server: Account: vesc-education.com, SMTP Server: 'vesc-education.com', Error Number: 0x800ccc0e Let me know if you could offer any help. ----- Please contact me off list at tgales at tgaconnect.com This problem doesn't seem to bave anything to do with PHP. T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From webmaster at localnotion.com Thu Aug 12 23:58:45 2004 From: webmaster at localnotion.com (Matthew Terenzio) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 23:58:45 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <411C001F.7010302@travelersdiary.com> References: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> <1092236089.25399.17.camel@brian.vermonster.com> <411C001F.7010302@travelersdiary.com> Message-ID: <12AFF95D-ECDD-11D8-8CA0-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> On Aug 12, 2004, at 7:41 PM, Josh McCormack wrote: > Be very, very careful when you encounter small business owners who > don't really understand what's involved in programming. > If there's any way in the world you can do it, charge by the hour. > They will call you about everything, expect everything to be done > fast, change their mind constantly, and think they're doing you a big > favor. Funny, this sounds like my corporate job. : ) > > If they think your quote was way out of bounds this might be a sign to > move on. Delivering pizzas or making coffee at Starbucks could end up > being more profitable and less ulcer inducing in the end. > > Josh > > > Brian Kaney wrote: > >> It is really hard to tell without reading a specification or >> proposal. There is quite a range out there from a $1k to $100k-plus. >> Consider if >> you need to hire a designer that could cost upward of $5k. How much >> back-end integration and automation is required for instance, >> etc...but >> this brings up a topic we deal with every day. >> One thing that drives me crazy about some small/mid business owners is >> their cost expectation. A SMB owner can purchase an entire >> office-productivity suite for less than $500. An accounting system >> for >> $300. So when they need integrated and custom work, it is a pretty >> big >> leap for them to drop multi-$k for a project. It really comes down >> to setting expectations as early as possible (so >> you don't waste hours researching and deploying). In the initial >> meeting with the client, I've found just asking for their budget is >> very >> useful. >> - Brian >> On Wed, 2004-08-11 at 10:34, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: >>> Guys i have put in a quote for a site similar to >>> http://www.novica.com/ >>> and the person said the quote was way too much, my quote was $25,000 >>> for the entire site to be done that is tax free for them, meaning i >>> am >>> paying my own taxes. Thier site included a ton of statistic features >>> and quickbooks report integration etc... >>> Do you guys think i quoted high or low? >>> Joe Crawford Jr. >>> >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New York PHP Talk >>> Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>> http://www.newyorkphp.org >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP Talk >> Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> http://www.newyorkphp.org > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Fri Aug 13 00:40:03 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:40:03 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Auth sessions In-Reply-To: References: <4FDFFC45-EBE3-11D8-8CA0-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> <6ec19ec704081209085ed7a319@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040813044003.GA25692@panix.com> On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 06:57:14PM -0400, Matthew Terenzio wrote: > > When I moved it to the top of the page, the session portion worked > fine. I'll bet you have/had a lovely combination of issues: 1) You're using cookies for the session data. 2) The cookies couldn't be set because the space at the top of the file was considered output, so further headers couldn't be sent (cookies are sent in the HTTP header) 3) You have your error reporting turned off, so you didn't get the infamous headers already sent error message. So, you've solved 2, so now fix 3. Set error reporting to E_ALL and display_errors = On so you start writing good code. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Fri Aug 13 00:50:29 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:50:29 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Signing PHP applications. In-Reply-To: <411C0EC8.8070100@gmanon.com> References: <411C0EC8.8070100@gmanon.com> Message-ID: <20040813045029.GB25692@panix.com> Hi Guillermina: On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 08:43:52PM -0400, Guillermina Manon wrote: > How PHP programmers sign their applications? I use both GPG and md5 sums, so people can verify things the way they want. My packaging script automatically checks the program out from CVS, tars/gzips it, then md5 and GPG signs it and moves it into the appropriate directory for distribution. See you, --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Fri Aug 13 00:57:23 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:57:23 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] SMTP Issues with Linux and Windows 2003 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040813045722.GC25692@panix.com> On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 09:11:46PM -0400, Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg wrote: > > What version of PHP are you using? Heh heh --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu Fri Aug 13 01:24:48 2004 From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:24:48 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <411C50A0.9080503@mlug.missouri.edu> >You can always attach a unique id to avoid caching: > > Any reason not to just set the cache info? Easy enough to do using either PHP or Apache and all major browsers handle it in at least something close to the right behavior. I do something like this for static files in Apache: ExpiresActive on ExpiresDefault "access plus 1 minute" ExpiresByType image/jpeg "access plus 1 week" ExpiresByType image/png "access plus 1 week" ExpiresByType image/gif "access plus 1 week" And I set the proper http headers for each of my PHP pages to get the same effect for scripts. Obviously to avoid caching rather than encouraging it as I have done you'd just change the life of the objects to something small. -- Michael http://kavlon.org From adam at trachtenberg.com Fri Aug 13 01:28:16 2004 From: adam at trachtenberg.com (Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 01:28:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] SMTP Issues with Linux and Windows 2003 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 LeeEyerman at aol.com wrote: > Usually 4+ why? I have not gotten into 5 yet. Sorry, but that was my grumpy way of hinting that since your question was in no ways at all PHP related, that maybe another mailing list would be a more appropriate forum. It's usually good if your question can at least be slightly related to PHP. So, trying to use PHP with SMTP would be fine, but Outlook and SMTP is a bit of a stretch, even if some list members are happy to help you out. -adam -- adam at trachtenberg.com author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook" avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today! From ejp at well.com Fri Aug 13 08:23:24 2004 From: ejp at well.com (Edward Potter) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:23:24 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: <411C50A0.9080503@mlug.missouri.edu> References: <411C50A0.9080503@mlug.missouri.edu> Message-ID: <92CC5E44-ED23-11D8-BD67-000393CAC09E@well.com> I kind of take the lazy guy approach. Basically osCommerce has a routine (how many php programmers have contributed to that application? 100's? 1000's?), they have a module that does most anything you want. First you'll pull out your hair and scream and yell, "they're nuts, it's a mess, it's crazy how they do that.", after a few hours you'll say "hey, that's a brilliant approach". Sort of like ones first experience meeting up with Unix. Yes, they have a "count users module" built into osCommerce. Just have to dig it out. :-) -ed On Aug 13, 2004, at 1:24 AM, Michael wrote: > >> You can always attach a unique id to avoid caching: >> > Any reason not to just set the cache info? Easy enough to do using > either PHP or Apache and all major browsers handle it in at least > something close to the right behavior. > > I do something like this for static files in Apache: > ExpiresActive on > ExpiresDefault "access plus 1 minute" > ExpiresByType image/jpeg "access plus 1 week" > ExpiresByType image/png "access plus 1 week" > ExpiresByType image/gif "access plus 1 week" > > And I set the proper http headers for each of my PHP pages to get the > same effect for scripts. Obviously to avoid caching rather than > encouraging it as I have done you'd just change the life of the > objects to something small. > > -- > Michael > http://kavlon.org > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From tgales at tgaconnect.com Fri Aug 13 11:04:01 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:04:01 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP 5.0.1 Released Message-ID: <000201c48146$c481a0e0$e98d3818@oberon1> I saw yesterday that PHP 5.0.1 was released. http://www.php.net/ChangeLog-5.php#5.0.1 T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From adam at trachtenberg.com Fri Aug 13 11:45:12 2004 From: adam at trachtenberg.com (Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:45:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP 5.0.1 Released In-Reply-To: <000201c48146$c481a0e0$e98d3818@oberon1> References: <000201c48146$c481a0e0$e98d3818@oberon1> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, Tim Gales wrote: > I saw yesterday that PHP 5.0.1 was > released. This fixes, among other things, the nasty bug that broke PHP's support for HTTP Basic Auth. -adam -- adam at trachtenberg.com author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook" avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today! From Cbielanski at inta.org Fri Aug 13 11:49:59 2004 From: Cbielanski at inta.org (Chris Bielanski) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:49:59 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP 5.0.1 Released Message-ID: But wait it says it's only a maintenance fix? ;) Thanks, Chris Bielanski Web Programmer, International Trademark Association, 1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor New York, NY 10036 +1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence > -----Original Message----- > From: Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg [mailto:adam at trachtenberg.com] > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:45 AM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP 5.0.1 Released > > > On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, Tim Gales wrote: > > > I saw yesterday that PHP 5.0.1 was > > released. > > This fixes, among other things, the nasty bug that broke PHP's support > for HTTP Basic Auth. > > -adam > > -- > adam at trachtenberg.com > author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook" > avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today! > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From adam at trachtenberg.com Fri Aug 13 11:47:32 2004 From: adam at trachtenberg.com (Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP 5.0.1 Released In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, Chris Bielanski wrote: > But wait it says it's only a maintenance fix? ;) Well, there are no new features, unless you count the re-enabling of old ones. :) -- adam at trachtenberg.com author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook" avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today! From Cbielanski at inta.org Fri Aug 13 11:53:19 2004 From: Cbielanski at inta.org (Chris Bielanski) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:53:19 -0400 Subject: OT: RE: [nycphp-talk] PHP 5.0.1 Released Message-ID: Okay, that definition will mollify me... but LO, WHAT IF I WEREN'T?! heh. Thanks, Chris Bielanski Web Programmer, International Trademark Association, 1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor New York, NY 10036 +1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence > -----Original Message----- > From: Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg [mailto:adam at trachtenberg.com] > Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 11:48 AM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] PHP 5.0.1 Released > > > On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, Chris Bielanski wrote: > > > But wait it says it's only a maintenance fix? ;) > > Well, there are no new features, unless you count the re-enabling of > old ones. :) > > -- > adam at trachtenberg.com > author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook" > avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today! > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From ajai at bitblit.net Fri Aug 13 13:11:43 2004 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:11:43 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: <20040812205344.3FA0AA85FE@virtu.nyphp.org> References: <20040812205344.3FA0AA85FE@virtu.nyphp.org> Message-ID: <411CF64F.2090600@bitblit.net> Mark Armendariz wrote: >I'm not a huge fan of MS for lots of reasons, security being a big one, BUT, >I feel outlook 03 is by far one of the best email clients I've ever used >(and I've tried at least 30 windows email clients - large and small). >Personally, I've had no security issues with it (thus far). I tend not to >recommend it (hold this reply) as I know MS can hardly be trusted, but until >the day I can get similar or better functionality from another developer, I >have to stick with it for email. > Ive been doing pretty well with Mozilla for email. The spam filtering is pretty good and the automatic filing via rules is damn good for me (Im on a lot of lists!). -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer From ajai at bitblit.net Fri Aug 13 15:17:51 2004 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 15:17:51 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] SMTP Issues with Linux and Windows 2003 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <411D13DF.7080000@bitblit.net> LeeEyerman at aol.com wrote: > When setting up Outlook to talk to the LINUX server, I am able to > retrieve messages over POP3 without a problem. However, I cannot send > SMTP messages. I get various SMTP errors from the LINUX server. What are the error messages? ("It dont work" isn't a very useful error message when troubleshooting something technical ;-) p.s. I know its an AOL email address but please try posting in plain text rather than HTML. -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer From dmintz at davidmintz.org Fri Aug 13 15:25:44 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 15:25:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Hmm, how to count 'online' users? In-Reply-To: <411CF64F.2090600@bitblit.net> References: <20040812205344.3FA0AA85FE@virtu.nyphp.org> <411CF64F.2090600@bitblit.net> Message-ID: Yes, but.... what version of PHP are you guys using? (Sorry, I couldn't resist.) On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, Ajai Khattri wrote: > Mark Armendariz wrote: > > >I'm not a huge fan of MS for lots of reasons, security being a big one, BUT, > >I feel outlook 03 is by far one of the best email clients I've ever used > > Ive been doing pretty well with Mozilla for email. The spam filtering is pretty good and the automatic filing via rules is damn good for me (Im on a lot of lists!). --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From webmaster at localnotion.com Fri Aug 13 17:22:33 2004 From: webmaster at localnotion.com (Matthew Terenzio) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 17:22:33 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Auth sessions In-Reply-To: <20040813044003.GA25692@panix.com> References: <4FDFFC45-EBE3-11D8-8CA0-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> <6ec19ec704081209085ed7a319@mail.gmail.com> <20040813044003.GA25692@panix.com> Message-ID: On Aug 13, 2004, at 12:40 AM, Daniel Convissor wrote: > On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 06:57:14PM -0400, Matthew Terenzio wrote: >> >> When I moved it to the top of the page, the session portion worked >> fine. > > I'll bet you have/had a lovely combination of issues: > 1) You're using cookies for the session data. True I have not explicitly not used cookies. I don't consider this an issue, do you ? Won't the PHP session object handle cases where cookies are disallowed. Maybe that's a wrong assumption of mine leftover from JSP class. > 2) The cookies couldn't be set because the space at the top of the > file was considered output, so further headers couldn't be sent > (cookies are sent in the HTTP header) You got that right, I'd say. Thanks for the explanation. > 3) You have your error reporting turned off, so you didn't get the > infamous headers already sent error message. display_errors is on and set to 8. Is that different than E_ALL?(by the time you answer I will have investigated) Thanks for the heads up. I changed to E_ALL and restarted Apache and still can't get a warning or error. (I will try harder when I have time) > > So, you've solved 2, so now fix 3. Set error reporting to E_ALL and > display_errors = On so you start writing good code. OOOh that's cold. I hope you mean verify which code I'm writing is good. : ) > > --Dan > > -- > T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y > data intensive web and database programming > http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ > 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org From gmanon at gmanon.com Fri Aug 13 18:04:00 2004 From: gmanon at gmanon.com (Guillermina Manon) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 18:04:00 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Signing PHP applications In-Reply-To: <20040813160004.7610AA8799@virtu.nyphp.org> References: <20040813160004.7610AA8799@virtu.nyphp.org> Message-ID: <411D3AD0.3080003@gmanon.com> Thanks for the answer Dan. Message: 3 Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:50:29 -0400 From: Daniel Convissor Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Signing PHP applications. To: NYPHP Talk Message-ID: <20040813045029.GB25692 at panix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Guillermina: On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 08:43:52PM -0400, Guillermina Manon wrote: >> How PHP programmers sign their applications? > > I use both GPG and md5 sums, so people can verify things the way they want. My packaging script automatically checks the program out from CVS, tars/gzips it, then md5 and GPG signs it and moves it into the appropriate directory for distribution. See you, --Dan From jcrawford at codebowl.com Fri Aug 13 23:58:40 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 23:58:40 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Signing PHP applications. References: <411C0EC8.8070100@gmanon.com> <20040813045029.GB25692@panix.com> Message-ID: <009c01c481b2$fc0b3050$524a4044@codebowl> What's the big deal or why would you sign a php script or file? i have never understood the meaning of signing files. Joe Crawford Jr. From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Sat Aug 14 00:10:45 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 00:10:45 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Signing PHP applications. In-Reply-To: <009c01c481b2$fc0b3050$524a4044@codebowl> References: <411C0EC8.8070100@gmanon.com> <20040813045029.GB25692@panix.com> <009c01c481b2$fc0b3050$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <20040814041045.GA25907@panix.com> On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 11:58:40PM -0400, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > What's the big deal or why would you sign a php script or file? i have never > understood the meaning of signing files. Why sign a contract, a check, etc. To prove authenticity. If you download files from a mirror, you need to make sure the mirror wasn't compromized. Or even the original server. Forgery does happen. Then, once you've verified the file before installing, you know the files' signagures so can check to see if the installed files on your server are still correct. If the signatures match, you're fine. If not, you know an intrusion has happened. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From jcrawford at codebowl.com Sat Aug 14 00:19:18 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 00:19:18 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Signing PHP applications. References: <411C0EC8.8070100@gmanon.com> <20040813045029.GB25692@panix.com><009c01c481b2$fc0b3050$524a4044@codebowl> <20040814041045.GA25907@panix.com> Message-ID: <001901c481b5$ddd60170$524a4044@codebowl> Dan, but the fact of signing a php app when it is not obfuscated say with zend encoder what is the point? the key or md5 sum is publicly viewable and changeable hence it doesnt make any sense. Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Convissor" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Signing PHP applications. > On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 11:58:40PM -0400, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > > What's the big deal or why would you sign a php script or file? i have never > > understood the meaning of signing files. > > Why sign a contract, a check, etc. To prove authenticity. If you > download files from a mirror, you need to make sure the mirror wasn't > compromized. Or even the original server. Forgery does happen. > > Then, once you've verified the file before installing, you know the files' > signagures so can check to see if the installed files on your server are > still correct. If the signatures match, you're fine. If not, you know an > intrusion has happened. > > --Dan > > -- > T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y > data intensive web and database programming > http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ > 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Sat Aug 14 00:33:47 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 00:33:47 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Signing PHP applications. In-Reply-To: <001901c481b5$ddd60170$524a4044@codebowl> References: <411C0EC8.8070100@gmanon.com> <20040814041045.GA25907@panix.com> <001901c481b5$ddd60170$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <20040814043347.GC25907@panix.com> Sir Joe: On Sat, Aug 14, 2004 at 12:19:18AM -0400, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > > but the fact of signing a php app when it is not obfuscated say with zend > encoder what is the point? Zend encoding has nothing to do with it. > the key or md5 sum is publicly viewable and > changeable hence it doesnt make any sense. Depends what you're looking for. If the main server is compromised and someone changes the tarball and the md5, youre right. Sidebar: This is why SIGNING with GPG/etc is superior, because the intruder would need to know your secret passphrase to create a valid signature for the file. BUT, if you install a program, and then, on your own, determine the md5 sums and store them in a secure manner, you can use md5's to ensure your server is in good health. Of course, any security measures can be circumnavigated somehow. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't undertake security measures. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From jcrawford at codebowl.com Sat Aug 14 00:45:32 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 00:45:32 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Signing PHP applications. References: <411C0EC8.8070100@gmanon.com> <20040814041045.GA25907@panix.com><001901c481b5$ddd60170$524a4044@codebowl> <20040814043347.GC25907@panix.com> Message-ID: <004301c481b9$881c5eb0$524a4044@codebowl> Dan, am i wrong or is MD5 and GPG in the php code such as variables, that is how i would picture signing a php script. Or are you talking about compressing the files and signing the zip/rar file. Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Convissor" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 12:33 AM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Signing PHP applications. > Sir Joe: > > On Sat, Aug 14, 2004 at 12:19:18AM -0400, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > > > > but the fact of signing a php app when it is not obfuscated say with zend > > encoder what is the point? > > Zend encoding has nothing to do with it. > > > > the key or md5 sum is publicly viewable and > > changeable hence it doesnt make any sense. > > Depends what you're looking for. > > If the main server is compromised and someone changes the tarball and the > md5, youre right. > > Sidebar: This is why SIGNING with GPG/etc is superior, because the > intruder would need to know your secret passphrase to create a valid > signature for the file. > > BUT, if you install a program, and then, on your own, determine the md5 > sums and store them in a secure manner, you can use md5's to ensure your > server is in good health. > > Of course, any security measures can be circumnavigated somehow. But that > doesn't mean we shouldn't undertake security measures. > > --Dan > > -- > T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y > data intensive web and database programming > http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ > 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Sat Aug 14 10:55:38 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:55:38 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Signing PHP applications. In-Reply-To: <004301c481b9$881c5eb0$524a4044@codebowl> References: <411C0EC8.8070100@gmanon.com> <20040814043347.GC25907@panix.com> <004301c481b9$881c5eb0$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <20040814145538.GA23785@panix.com> Hi Joe: I'm talking about two things. One is program distribution. The other is intrusion detection. Neither involve a doing run time checks in your scripts. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From Kbedi at inta.org Sat Aug 14 16:33:29 2004 From: Kbedi at inta.org (Kshitij Bedi) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 16:33:29 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Costing Message-ID: How much should I charge for developing a Full authentication system (user signup, with roles and premissions) and Order-Payment report generation module for a pre-existing shopping cart website. Payment Type: Lump sum Language: PHP & MySQL & ASP.NET(C#) / SQL 2000 -Kshitij Web Administrator From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Sat Aug 14 16:35:09 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 16:35:09 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Costing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <411E777D.1010603@spacemonkeylabs.com> Kshitij Bedi wrote: >How much should I charge for developing a Full authentication system (user >signup, with roles and premissions) and Order-Payment report generation >module for a pre-existing shopping cart website. > Well, estimate how many hours it will take you, and multiply by your hourly rate ;-) Anything beyond that, and the tinfoil hats will descend on the price fixers... -- Mitch, nervously looking over shoulder From Kbedi at inta.org Sat Aug 14 17:06:04 2004 From: Kbedi at inta.org (Kshitij Bedi) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 17:06:04 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Costing Message-ID: But how much time do you think it should take? -----Original Message----- From: Mitch Pirtle To: NYPHP Talk Sent: 8/14/2004 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Costing Kshitij Bedi wrote: >How much should I charge for developing a Full authentication system (user >signup, with roles and premissions) and Order-Payment report generation >module for a pre-existing shopping cart website. > Well, estimate how many hours it will take you, and multiply by your hourly rate ;-) Anything beyond that, and the tinfoil hats will descend on the price fixers... -- Mitch, nervously looking over shoulder _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From brian at vermonster.com Sat Aug 14 18:40:40 2004 From: brian at vermonster.com (brian at vermonster.com) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 18:40:40 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Costing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1092523240.411e94e83deb3@webmail.vermonster.com> I really love reading the posts from this group, and I think it is great to have lively threads about the issues we all face in commercial PHP consulting; covering techniques and pointers to approaching new projects and even generalities about quoting. However, specific projects ought to be confidential. As a newbie on this list, I am far from a list-authority (especially being from Boston), but really would hate to see this list become a general collusion of threads about pricing specific projects. BTW, doesn't this violate the NYPHP-list non-commercial mantra? - Brian Quoting Kshitij Bedi : > > But how much time do you think it should take? > From hans at cyberxdesigns.com Sat Aug 14 21:06:13 2004 From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 21:06:13 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Costing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <411EB705.4090009@cyberxdesigns.com> We have absolutely no idea how much time it will take you and therefore we can not estimate this for you. I could not even tell you how long this would take me because I do not have the details of the project and this is not an appropriate place to share those details. Estimating is a skill that is learned through do it. You have to figure out your capabilities and your customer's requirements. Take some time and write a list of what it take to execute this project and estimate how much time each component will take and double that time. Then follow the instructions Mitch provided. Face it, you are going to screw up a lot of estimates while learning, be prepared to manage expectations and eat a little dirt once in a while. Good Luck, Hans Kaspersetz Kshitij Bedi wrote: >But how much time do you think it should take? > > > --- snip --- From jcrawford at codebowl.com Sat Aug 14 23:07:07 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 23:07:07 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Dataset Equiv Message-ID: <001201c48274$f331f050$524a4044@codebowl> Anyone here ever seen a class that can resemble a dataset? here is what i would like to do, create a class that will take and SQL query/command and execute it but also get all the table info such as row name and value and store it in the object, i can then be disconnected from the DB, add/edit/delete from the dataset and then run an update command to update the actual database, i think having things like this would make the site a bit faster as i wouldnt have so many db connections for each user session. I have found WebPanels (http://tanus.dotgeek.org) but that seems a bit more complex in the OOP area for me. Joe Crawford Jr. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com Sat Aug 14 00:04:16 2004 From: sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 00:04:16 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Signing PHP applications. In-Reply-To: <009c01c481b2$fc0b3050$524a4044@codebowl> References: <411C0EC8.8070100@gmanon.com> <20040813045029.GB25692@panix.com> <009c01c481b2$fc0b3050$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <17166-63327@sneakemail.com> Joseph Crawford Jr. jcrawford-at-codebowl.com |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: >What's the big deal or why would you sign a php script or file? i have never >understood the meaning of signing files. > >Joe Crawford Jr. > > If it is "signed" then you know it has not been modified since it was released by the author. If it is not signed, then it may have been modified - in worst case, it may have been corrupted or it may have been loaded with a virus/worm/trojan. With complex scripts, it would be relatively easy to hide a backdoor inside, for example. "signing" can be as simple as including a hash value with the code, so the code can be re-hashed by the recipient (if the value matches, it hasn't been modified -- with ridiculously high probability). It could also be encrypted with keys that need to be verified with a "trusted authority" before used (more complicated, and if you are a realist, there are no "trusted authorities"-- yet). -=john andrews From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu Sun Aug 15 00:48:03 2004 From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 21:48:03 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Costing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <411EEB03.1070102@mlug.missouri.edu> >How much should I charge for developing a Full authentication system (user >signup, with roles and premissions) and Order-Payment report generation >module for a pre-existing shopping cart website. > Last time I created such a system with a view-action execution system with user and group permissions it took me about 80 hours to really work the bugs out and create all the admin interfaces and everything. That's assuming you'll want to be able to control which modules are executed by whom from within the web-based admin tools. You could probably do a half-assed version within 10 hours. -- Michael http://kavlon.org From joshmccormack at travelersdiary.com Sun Aug 15 08:58:47 2004 From: joshmccormack at travelersdiary.com (Josh McCormack) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 08:58:47 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote In-Reply-To: <005101c47fb8$724c4e90$524a4044@codebowl> References: <005101c47fb8$724c4e90$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <411F5E07.8070504@travelersdiary.com> At $25/hr you're not leaving much breathing room if/when they drag this project on, creep beyond scope, change requirements, etc. I think the "lets see what can be taken away" idea was fantastic. Also, be careful not to work with them too much developing a plan - they could just pass that along to the rentacoder types. If you really want you could make a generic version of the system, and when it's done offer to liscense it to them and customize it for them. They'll get an exclusive in their industry. Josh Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > tried that and said i would work for $25/hr they wanted a project quote > and then anything after the contract be @ 25/hr > > Joe Crawford Jr. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Yury Rush > *To:* NYPHP Talk > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 11, 2004 11:11 AM > *Subject:* RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote > > One other idea -- ask if they would be interested in doing it > hourly... which would be fantastic for you!!!!! :P > > ciao > yury > > > http://www.templatelabs.com > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]*On Behalf Of *Joseph > Crawford Jr. > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:01 AM > *To:* NYPHP Talk > *Subject:* Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote > > i should also mention that they want each store to have it's own > domain name if they so choose. > > Joe Crawford Jr. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Joseph Crawford Jr. > *To:* NYPHP Talk > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:57 AM > *Subject:* Re: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote > > Yuri, > > that's just it, it's not a typical shopping cart, they want > to have several store fronts that can sell items. Multiple > shops where a user can navigate and order products from more > than one shop in one transaction. > > They also want an admin area for each shop, the main admin > interface limited by access, such as admin1 has access to > part of the admin area and admin2 can have access to more > parts of the admin area. If it wasnt confidential i would > forward the docs to the list so you could see all of the > features. > > They want to be able to have a portal for the users so that > they can have > > They can see the weather > See the stock market > See front page news from local newspapers > Horoscopes > Match.com > The top boxoffice numbers > > Search integration including not limited to > > yahoo, google > > such stuff as > -message board > -classifieds > -their profile > -newsletter > -events > -Email to a Friend recommend us kind of thing and win points > program. > -Discounts, shopping within the site?s community members. So > they can shop between themselves and have a community discount . > > so as you can see it is much more than a typical shopping cart. > > this project will probably take me upwards of 6-8 months > > Joe Crawford Jr. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Yury Rush > *To:* NYPHP Talk > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:46 AM > *Subject:* RE: [nycphp-talk] Site Quote > > For a shopping cart -- maybe a little. But you would > know better..you met with them and could feel them out. > But hey -- a deal is made when you have a willing seller > and a willing buyer! Is the quote for a jewelry store? > > regards > Yury > > http://www.webuyolddiamonds.com > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]*On Behalf Of > *Joseph Crawford Jr. > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 11, 2004 9:35 AM > *To:* talk at lists.nyphp.org > *Subject:* [nycphp-talk] Site Quote > > Guys i have put in a quote for a site similar to > > http://www.novica.com/ > > and the person said the quote was way too much, my > quote was $25,000 for the entire site to be done > that is tax free for them, meaning i am paying my > own taxes. Thier site included a ton of statistic > features and quickbooks report integration etc... > > Do you guys think i quoted high or low? > > Joe Crawford Jr. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Sun Aug 15 09:33:57 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 09:33:57 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Dataset Equiv In-Reply-To: <001201c48274$f331f050$524a4044@codebowl> References: <001201c48274$f331f050$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <411F6645.7030905@spacemonkeylabs.com> Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > Anyone here ever seen a class that can resemble a dataset? Nope, but ADOdb does include an XML-based schema/data manipulation addon called AXMLS. http://phplens.com/lens/adodb/docs-datadict.htm Perhaps a different approach, but practically the same result. -- Mitch From tom at supertom.com Sun Aug 15 10:29:33 2004 From: tom at supertom.com (Tom Melendez) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 10:29:33 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Javascript form question In-Reply-To: <21471-54165@sneakemail.com> References: <000c01c47fb0$5376c200$524a4044@codebowl> <21471-54165@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <1092580172.19926.13.camel@tmelendez.int.bascom.com> Hey Folks, I have a javascript issue that I'm about to get into, and I just wanted to run it by you guys to see if anyone has solved this before, or perhaps has a good idea about approaching it. I have a standard looking interface with left bar navigation and the "meat" (forms) in the middle. What I need to do is the following: If the user makes any changes to the form, and then clicks somewhere on the left nav bar without first clicking the "save" (or cancel) button at the bottom, I need them to confirm that they'd like to discard or save their changes and leave that page. I don't believe the actions that will occur afterwards will be a problem, but I'm not quite positive on how to implement the form check in the first place. I would like it be "general", so that it is not dependent on the elements in the form, but rather the form as a whole. I was thinking that I could perhaps, when building the page, create a "dynamic" JS function that had all the existing values, and then on unLoad, check them against the current values. Or, maybe I could create a form object, and just do a simple comparison against the current form object - I'm not sure about that one. Any thoughts or comments are greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tom www.liphp.org From sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com Sun Aug 15 11:42:43 2004 From: sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:42:43 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Costing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7512-80684@sneakemail.com> Call me a cynic, but whenever I see something like : "Hey competition, please tell me your pricing and proposal ideas so I can optimally underbid you" all sorts of red flags go up. If you are at a business maturity level such that you need to post a question like that to an open PHP list, you would be wise to get a job working for an established shop for a while longer - you need the experience. NYPHP'ers would be serving the talk list well by only responding to such posts offline. -=john andrews Quality PHP training for the busy professional. Kshitij Bedi Kbedi-at-inta.org |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: >How much should I charge for developing a Full authentication system (user >signup, with roles and premissions) and Order-Payment report generation >module for a pre-existing shopping cart website. > >Payment Type: Lump sum >Language: PHP & MySQL & ASP.NET(C#) / SQL 2000 > > > >-Kshitij >Web Administrator > > >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From php at haberco.com Sun Aug 15 12:31:01 2004 From: php at haberco.com (Eddie Haber) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 12:31:01 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Costing In-Reply-To: <7512-80684@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: This thread was began from a terrible question: > How much should I charge for developing a Full authentication system...? Received several terrible answers including this one: > Michael wrote: > Last time I created such a system with a view-action execution system > with user and group permissions it took me about 80 hours to really work > the bugs out and create all the admin interfaces and everything. That's > assuming you'll want to be able to control which modules are executed by > whom from within the web-based admin tools. You could probably do a > half-assed version within 10 hours. I completely agree with John Andrews: > If you are at a business maturity level such that you need to post a question > like that to an open PHP list... and > NYPHP'ers would be serving the talk list well by only responding to such > posts offline. Eddie On 8/15/04 11:42 AM, "inforequest" wrote: > Call me a cynic, but whenever I see something like : > > "Hey competition, please tell me your pricing and proposal ideas so I can > optimally underbid you" all sorts of red flags go up. > > If you are at a business maturity level such that you need to post a question > like that to an open PHP list, you would be wise to get a job working for an > established shop for a while longer - you need the experience. NYPHP'ers would > be serving the talk list well by only responding to such posts offline. > > -=john andrews > Quality PHP training for the busy > professional. From nyphp at enobrev.com Sun Aug 15 14:10:03 2004 From: nyphp at enobrev.com (Mark Armendariz) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 14:10:03 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Dataset Equiv In-Reply-To: <001201c48274$f331f050$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <20040815181006.9EC5FA85E9@virtu.nyphp.org> Start reading up on DAO (Data Access Objects) and Data Objects. These patterns are somewhat similar to what you're looking for. I've attempted building a hugely robust DAO system that completely replicates a database (including field types, lengths, defaults, etc), which even goes to the lengths of automagically validating and/or formatting the data whenever insert/updated, grabbing the default data when selecting for a form, and allowing you create fields of 'special' data types (i.e. email: VARCHAR 120, with email regex attached). At the end of the day, I just like SQL better. Although I do use DAO for larger projects to maintain organization, SQL is so powerful and customizable , and tends to be far more efficient in comparison to the overhead using objects for data access can carry. And I've years of experience with complex SQL, which makes it tons faster for me at dev time. Good Luck! _____ From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford Jr. Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 11:07 PM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Dataset Equiv Anyone here ever seen a class that can resemble a dataset? here is what i would like to do, create a class that will take and SQL query/command and execute it but also get all the table info such as row name and value and store it in the object, i can then be disconnected from the DB, add/edit/delete from the dataset and then run an update command to update the actual database, i think having things like this would make the site a bit faster as i wouldnt have so many db connections for each user session. I have found WebPanels (http://tanus.dotgeek.org) but that seems a bit more complex in the OOP area for me. Joe Crawford Jr. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Sun Aug 15 14:49:37 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 14:49:37 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Dataset Equiv In-Reply-To: <001201c48274$f331f050$524a4044@codebowl> References: <001201c48274$f331f050$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <20040815184937.GA21033@panix.com> Hi Joe: On Sat, Aug 14, 2004 at 11:07:07PM -0400, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > Anyone here ever seen a class that can resemble a dataset? Try PEAR's DB_DataObject. I don't know all about it but I have a feeling it's along the lines you're looking for. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From krook at us.ibm.com Sun Aug 15 18:20:35 2004 From: krook at us.ibm.com (Daniel Krook) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 18:20:35 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Javascript form question In-Reply-To: <1092580172.19926.13.camel@tmelendez.int.bascom.com> Message-ID: Tom, I've posted a reply to this question on the NYPHP front-end list: http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/front-end Daniel Krook, Application Developer WW Web Production Services North 2, ibm.com 1133 Westchester Avenue, White Plains, NY 10604 Personal: http://info.krook.org/ Persona: http://w3.ibm.com/eworkplace/persona_bp_finder.jsp?CNUM=9A9796897 From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu Sun Aug 15 21:14:04 2004 From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 18:14:04 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Costing In-Reply-To: <7512-80684@sneakemail.com> References: <7512-80684@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <41200A5C.2030206@mlug.missouri.edu> > Call me a cynic, but whenever I see something like : > > "Hey competition, please tell me your pricing and proposal ideas so I > can optimally underbid you" all sorts of red flags go up. > > If you are at a business maturity level such that you need to post a > question like that to an open PHP list, you would be wise to get a job > working for an established shop for a while longer - you need the > experience. NYPHP'ers would be serving the talk list well by only > responding to such posts offline. How are people going to learn if they don't get any advice? I'm not trying to bid against anyone here so I have no interest in hiding anything from anyone. Posting off-list is even worse because it requires people ask the same question when they want an answer. Post your questions and answers where everyone can see them, archieving them somewhere Google can index them, and you help more people and require questions to be repeated less often. The question itself is a bit naive as of course the cost depends largely on the time it takes to produce the product and the time needed depends on the individual features and the ability of the programmer. However, given responses by several different people it's possible to work out an average. If you take significantly longer than the average then you probably need the experience anyway so you may as well charge the lower rate per hour. I see no reason that programmers with less experience shouldn't do freelance work. Freelancing is a good way to work on a wide range of applications which you often wouldn't be exposed to while working for an individual shop. Besides, estimating development time can be difficult even for experienced pros. Anyone that's worked in the software development business knows how seldom projects actually run according to schedule. -- Michael http://kavlon.org From jcrawford at codebowl.com Sun Aug 15 21:26:28 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 21:26:28 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Costing References: <7512-80684@sneakemail.com> <41200A5C.2030206@mlug.missouri.edu> Message-ID: <000901c48330$0e3304f0$524a4044@codebowl> > Google can index them, and you help more people and require > questions to be repeated less often. Would you really want this? i mean it will index everything including the email addresses etc... in signitures and could cause spam. Joe Crawford Jr. From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu Sun Aug 15 22:00:14 2004 From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 19:00:14 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Costing In-Reply-To: <000901c48330$0e3304f0$524a4044@codebowl> References: <7512-80684@sneakemail.com> <41200A5C.2030206@mlug.missouri.edu> <000901c48330$0e3304f0$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <4120152E.7030408@mlug.missouri.edu> > Would you really want this? i mean it will index everything including the > email addresses etc... in signitures and could cause spam. A lot of mailing lists obscure the email addresses in their archieves. Often in such a way that human readers can figure out the real email address but not email bots. It's certainly a good idea for all useful information to be indexed by Google and that includes mailing list discussions IMO. I've learned lots by such discussions and am often thanked by people for making sure answers to various problems were published on appropiate lists that I knew would be indexed. I go out of way to post such useful bits for Google to find even if I just figured out the answer for myself and nobody else has actually asked. As far as email addresses in your sig.. well if you don't want spam then don't post your email address to places where you don't know who'll see it.. such as mailing lists. For myself I don't care. Spam doesn't really bother me much as my filters catch almost all of it. It's easy enough to use a different account for each mailing list you're on in case spam is a concern for you. Then if it gets to be to much you can just kill the address and resubscribe from a different address. I've been toying for a while with opening a free (and ad free) server for geek user groups. Such that they'd provide easy to use tools for setting up a web site, mailing lists, and web-based mailing list archieve. I also thought about making it so people would have easy to use tools for creating/destroying multiple email account forwards. For those people who don't have their own email servers and don't want to use webmail accounts. Allow outgoing mail on those accounts and forward incoming mail to those accounts to some other email address. That should help manage the spam problem. -- Michael http://kavlon.org From zooming at gamebox.net Sun Aug 15 22:42:58 2004 From: zooming at gamebox.net (zooming at gamebox.net) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 22:42:58 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Costing References: <7512-80684@sneakemail.com> <41200A5C.2030206@mlug.missouri.edu><000901c48330$0e3304f0$524a4044@codebowl> <4120152E.7030408@mlug.missouri.edu> Message-ID: <001f01c4833a$bfaf6020$220110ac@main> How To Price Software http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsoftware/ html/software08052004.asp From joel at tagword.com Sun Aug 15 22:49:58 2004 From: joel at tagword.com (Joel De Gan) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 02:49:58 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Costing In-Reply-To: <000901c48330$0e3304f0$524a4044@codebowl> References: <7512-80684@sneakemail.com> <41200A5C.2030206@mlug.missouri.edu> <000901c48330$0e3304f0$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <1092624598.7527.171.camel@bezel> On Mon, 2004-08-16 at 01:26, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > > Google can index them, and you help more people and require > > questions to be repeated less often. > > Would you really want this? i mean it will index everything including the > email addresses etc... in signitures and could cause spam. Here ya go: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=%22Joseph+Crawford+Jr.%22+%2B+nyphp&btnG=Google+Search -- joeldg - developer, Intercosmos media group. http://lucifer.intercosmos.net From tgales at tgaconnect.com Mon Aug 16 08:33:53 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 08:33:53 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Dataset Equiv In-Reply-To: <001201c48274$f331f050$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <000001c4838d$4b02ab30$e98d3818@oberon1> Joseph Crawford Jr. writes: "Anyone here ever seen a class that can resemble a dataset?" http://pear.php.net/package/Structures_DataGrid Structures_DataGrid 0.5.3 (final Alpha release) It might be worth a look. T. Gales & Associates Helping People Connect with Technology http://www.tgaconnect.com From Kbedi at inta.org Mon Aug 16 09:31:48 2004 From: Kbedi at inta.org (Kshitij Bedi) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:31:48 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Costing Message-ID: Thank you all, and and specially Michael :-) and just to clear up things, I was here for an advice and not to unberbid other "you". -----Original Message----- From: inforequest [mailto:sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com] Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:43 AM To: talk at lists.nyphp.org Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Costing Call me a cynic, but whenever I see something like : "Hey competition, please tell me your pricing and proposal ideas so I can optimally underbid you" all sorts of red flags go up. If you are at a business maturity level such that you need to post a question like that to an open PHP list, you would be wise to get a job working for an established shop for a while longer - you need the experience. NYPHP'ers would be serving the talk list well by only responding to such posts offline. -=john andrews Quality PHP training for the busy professional. Kshitij Bedi Kbedi-at-inta.org |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: How much should I charge for developing a Full authentication system (user signup, with roles and premissions) and Order-Payment report generation module for a pre-existing shopping cart website. Payment Type: Lump sum Language: PHP & MySQL & ASP.NET(C#) / SQL 2000 -Kshitij Web Administrator _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Kbedi at inta.org Mon Aug 16 09:32:28 2004 From: Kbedi at inta.org (Kshitij Bedi) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:32:28 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Costing Message-ID: Thank you all, and and specially Michael :-) and just to clear up things, I was here for an advice and not to underbid "you". -----Original Message----- From: inforequest [mailto:sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com] Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 11:43 AM To: talk at lists.nyphp.org Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Costing Call me a cynic, but whenever I see something like : "Hey competition, please tell me your pricing and proposal ideas so I can optimally underbid you" all sorts of red flags go up. If you are at a business maturity level such that you need to post a question like that to an open PHP list, you would be wise to get a job working for an established shop for a while longer - you need the experience. NYPHP'ers would be serving the talk list well by only responding to such posts offline. -=john andrews Quality PHP training for the busy professional. Kshitij Bedi Kbedi-at-inta.org |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: How much should I charge for developing a Full authentication system (user signup, with roles and premissions) and Order-Payment report generation module for a pre-existing shopping cart website. Payment Type: Lump sum Language: PHP & MySQL & ASP.NET(C#) / SQL 2000 -Kshitij Web Administrator _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From donald at saturn5net.com Mon Aug 16 15:09:13 2004 From: donald at saturn5net.com (Donald Organ) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:09:13 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Mailman Message-ID: <028301c483c4$84c94c70$800101df@dorganmobile> How would i go about speeding up the time it takes Mailman to send out the messages it recieves. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajai at bitblit.net Mon Aug 16 15:11:16 2004 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:11:16 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Mailman In-Reply-To: <028301c483c4$84c94c70$800101df@dorganmobile> References: <028301c483c4$84c94c70$800101df@dorganmobile> Message-ID: <412106D4.8040903@bitblit.net> Donald Organ wrote: > How would i go about speeding up the time it takes Mailman to send out > the messages it recieves. What is your MTA? -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer From donald at saturn5net.com Mon Aug 16 15:20:11 2004 From: donald at saturn5net.com (Donald Organ) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:20:11 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Mailman References: <028301c483c4$84c94c70$800101df@dorganmobile> <412106D4.8040903@bitblit.net> Message-ID: <02b701c483c6$0d21d1e0$800101df@dorganmobile> sendmail ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ajai Khattri" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Mailman > Donald Organ wrote: > > > How would i go about speeding up the time it takes Mailman to send out > > the messages it recieves. > > > What is your MTA? > > -- > Aj. > Systems Administrator / Developer > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org From ajai at bitblit.net Mon Aug 16 15:55:35 2004 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:55:35 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Mailman In-Reply-To: <02b701c483c6$0d21d1e0$800101df@dorganmobile> References: <028301c483c4$84c94c70$800101df@dorganmobile> <412106D4.8040903@bitblit.net> <02b701c483c6$0d21d1e0$800101df@dorganmobile> Message-ID: <41211137.7070906@bitblit.net> Donald Organ wrote: >sendmail > Someone correct me if Im wrong but doesn't sendmail run through the queue every 30 mins by default? Maybe you can reduce that to every 15 mins perhaps. -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Mon Aug 16 16:33:28 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:33:28 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Mailman In-Reply-To: <41211137.7070906@bitblit.net> References: <028301c483c4$84c94c70$800101df@dorganmobile> <412106D4.8040903@bitblit.net> <02b701c483c6$0d21d1e0$800101df@dorganmobile> <41211137.7070906@bitblit.net> Message-ID: <20040816203328.GA18988@panix.com> On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 03:55:35PM -0400, Ajai Khattri wrote: > > Someone correct me if Im wrong but doesn't sendmail... Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't nyphp-talk for discussing PHP programming, while mailman and sendmail have anything to do with PHP? --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From Cbielanski at inta.org Mon Aug 16 16:39:28 2004 From: Cbielanski at inta.org (Chris Bielanski) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:39:28 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Mailman Message-ID: Dan, I'm afraid this one time, you're wrong ;) > Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't nyphp-talk for discussing > PHP programming, while mailman and sendmail have anything to do with > PHP? > > --Dan You see, sendmail and Mailman have /nothing/ to do with PHP. Just this once Dan, I couldn't resist. x_x Thanks, Chris Bielanski Web Programmer, International Trademark Association, 1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor New York, NY 10036 +1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence From scott at crisscott.com Mon Aug 16 16:43:10 2004 From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:43:10 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Mailman In-Reply-To: <20040816203328.GA18988@panix.com> References: <028301c483c4$84c94c70$800101df@dorganmobile> <412106D4.8040903@bitblit.net> <02b701c483c6$0d21d1e0$800101df@dorganmobile> <41211137.7070906@bitblit.net> <20040816203328.GA18988@panix.com> Message-ID: <41211C5E.4010504@crisscott.com> Daniel Convissor wrote: > On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 03:55:35PM -0400, Ajai Khattri wrote: > >>Someone correct me if Im wrong but doesn't sendmail... > > > Someone correct me if I'm wrong, Ok. but isn't nyphp-talk for discussing > PHP programming, while mailman and sendmail have anything to do with > PHP? From http://nyphp.org/content/mailinglist/mlist.php NYPHP-Talk Often regarded as one of the top discussion and support lists in the AMP community, a wide range of topics are covered. From development with Apache to IIS and Access to Oracle, join for technical, community and political discussion. Scott Mattocks From dmintz at davidmintz.org Mon Aug 16 16:48:23 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:48:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Mailman and that sorta thing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jeez, maybe it really is time for a little clarification as to what is OT and whether OT is uncool. Look what I just found at http://nyphp.org/content/mailinglist/mlist.php: NYPHP-Talk ---------- Often regarded as one of the top discussion and support lists in the AMP community, a wide range of topics are covered. From development with Apache to IIS and Access to Oracle, join for technical, community and political discussion. --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From sklar at sklar.com Mon Aug 16 16:56:37 2004 From: sklar at sklar.com (David Sklar) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:56:37 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Mailman and that sorta thing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41211F85.9090803@sklar.com> I had assumed that the phrase "From development with..." had an understood "PHP" between "From" and "development", but maybe that needs to be clarified. Or maybe I need to be clarified (mmm...butter) if it doesn't. It's easy enough to delete off-topic posts/threads, but I would certainly prefer that the "official wisdom" about what is and isn't OT indicate that questions that have nothing at all to do with PHP are OT. E.g. On topic: "I am using Mercury/32 MTA on Windows and when I call mail() from my PHP script, nothing happens." Subsequent discussion about MTA configuration and PHP configuration. Off topic: "I am using Mercury/32 MTA on Windows and I want it to deliver incoming mail to six different mailboxes." David David Mintz wrote: > > Jeez, maybe it really is time for a little clarification as to what is OT > and whether OT is uncool. Look what I just found at > http://nyphp.org/content/mailinglist/mlist.php: > > NYPHP-Talk > ---------- > Often regarded as one of the top discussion and support lists in the AMP > community, a wide range of topics are covered. From development with > Apache to IIS and Access to Oracle, join for technical, community and > political discussion. From bpang at bpang.com Mon Aug 16 16:58:17 2004 From: bpang at bpang.com (Brian Pang) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:58:17 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Mailman and that sorta thing Message-ID: maybe we should all agree to not respond to OT posts and call it out sooner once an OT thread starts. maybe this can be done automatically with a PHP script? (trying to stay ON-topic) :) > > > Jeez, maybe it really is time for a little clarification as to what is OT > and whether OT is uncool. Look what I just found at > http://nyphp.org/content/mailinglist/mlist.php: > > NYPHP-Talk > ---------- > Often regarded as one of the top discussion and support lists in the AMP > community, a wide range of topics are covered. From development with > Apache to IIS and Access to Oracle, join for technical, community and > political discussion. From dmintz at davidmintz.org Mon Aug 16 17:15:01 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 17:15:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] broadcast emailer: is this sane strategy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm rolling my own broadcast emailer and now that I've already put in way too many hours on it, I thought I'd check in and see if people think this overall design is sound. It's a two-page form. Page one presents them with a form for the body, subject, and a select menu to choose whether to send this message to everybody in this MySQL database or just a subset. There's some validation, then page two lets them proof it, and they can click either Send to send it (duh!), or Edit to step back to page one. When they click Send -- this is the part that I think merits some thinking -- I've decided to do a sort of poor man's fork. That is, I write the message body to a temporary file; then I execute myself with an exec() call with args $to, $subject, $message_filename and redirect any output to /dev/null; then I say "see ya later" to the browser. If I'm in CLI mode, I open the message file, to do the db query, loop through the result sending mail with PEAR::Mail/sendmail, and log some things along the way, then email a report to the user. This will be on a shared server. To keep Evil Spammer from getting a hold of it, I will be in cgi-wrapped mode with execute permissions set to only me. And the web interface will require authentication of course. My reasoning is that if it takes a long time to send all those emails, I don't want the user sitting there waiting and having the ability to hit reload or otherwise mess up the process once it's under way. My understanding is that if exec() doesn't produce any output, then PHP does not hang around and wait for the exec'd process to finish, but rather continues execution right away, which is exactly what I want. Make sense? Thanks, --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From dmintz at davidmintz.org Mon Aug 16 17:20:03 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 17:20:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Mailman and that sorta thing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Brian Pang wrote: > maybe we should all agree to not respond to OT posts and call it out > sooner once an OT thread starts. Maybe it's time to establish a separate list for BSing about whatever. --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From sklar at sklar.com Mon Aug 16 17:23:40 2004 From: sklar at sklar.com (David Sklar) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 17:23:40 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] broadcast emailer: is this sane strategy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <412125DC.7090905@sklar.com> > When they click Send -- this is the part that I think merits some thinking > -- I've decided to do a sort of poor man's fork. That is, I write the > message body to a temporary file; then I execute myself with an exec() > call with args $to, $subject, $message_filename and redirect any output to > /dev/null; then I say "see ya later" to the browser. > > If I'm in CLI mode, I open the message file, to do the db query, loop > through the result sending mail with PEAR::Mail/sendmail, and log some > things along the way, then email a report to the user. > > This will be on a shared server. To keep Evil Spammer from getting a hold > of it, I will be in cgi-wrapped mode with execute permissions set to only > me. And the web interface will require authentication of course. If you're able to in your shared server environment and you(r users) can stand a few minute delay perhaps after they click "Send" you could do it this way: have the web page save info about who gets sent what to the db. Then every 3/5/10/whatever minutes, have cron run a process that scans the db for messages to be sent, sends them, and then updates the db with log info. No submit button delays for the user, you don't have to worry about cgi-wrapping, and you still get all the nice log info to use. David From jeffknight at mac.com Mon Aug 16 17:25:05 2004 From: jeffknight at mac.com (putamare) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 17:25:05 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Mailman and that sorta thing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Aug 16, 2004, at 5:20 PM, David Mintz wrote: > Maybe it's time to establish a separate list for BSing about whatever. There is no shortage of BS on the web. Jeff Knight putamare not junk at putamare.net From sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com Mon Aug 16 17:37:04 2004 From: sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 17:37:04 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] broadcast emailer: is this sane strategy In-Reply-To: <412125DC.7090905@sklar.com> References: <412125DC.7090905@sklar.com> Message-ID: <9752-88101@sneakemail.com> David Sklar sklar-at-sklar.com |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: >> When they click Send -- this is the part that I think merits some >> thinking >> -- I've decided to do a sort of poor man's fork. That is, I write the >> message body to a temporary file; then I execute myself with an exec() >> call with args $to, $subject, $message_filename and redirect any >> output to >> /dev/null; then I say "see ya later" to the browser. >> >> If I'm in CLI mode, I open the message file, to do the db query, loop >> through the result sending mail with PEAR::Mail/sendmail, and log some >> things along the way, then email a report to the user. >> >> This will be on a shared server. To keep Evil Spammer from getting a >> hold >> of it, I will be in cgi-wrapped mode with execute permissions set to >> only >> me. And the web interface will require authentication of course. > > > If you're able to in your shared server environment and you(r users) > can stand a few minute delay perhaps after they click "Send" you could > do it this way: have the web page save info about who gets sent what > to the db. Then every 3/5/10/whatever minutes, have cron run a process > that scans the db for messages to be sent, sends them, and then > updates the db with log info. No submit button delays for the user, > you don't have to worry about cgi-wrapping, and you still get all the > nice log info to use. > > David > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > Your ISP will also appreciate your batching the send requests and scheduling the actual sends. You will be able to accommodate all sorts of unexpected events, and do your own logging. You may also want to build-in some checks along the way, based on constants you can adust as you see fit (based on growth, usage patterns, or whatever) - for example, at cron time if #pending > X (expected max usage) then pause process and alert you, if pending headers are not as expected, pause and alert, (you wrote the header, so your regex should confirm it matches at send time), send max Y messages per hour, etc etc. Build in the controls now and you will be less sorry later when it gets hijacked or your ISP has a system-level emergency, or a user makes a mistake or you decide to add restrictions or you go over bandwidth budget or whatever. Unless absolutely necessary, IMHO best not to just pass control commands from user-acceeible script to system level process. Why set up a trust when you don't need to? -=john andrews -- CONSERVATIVE, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.Ambrose Bierce From tgales at tgaconnect.com Mon Aug 16 18:25:40 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 18:25:40 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Mailman and that sorta thing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003201c483df$f6ecb470$e98d3818@oberon1> putamare writes: > On Aug 16, 2004, at 5:20 PM, David Mintz wrote: > > Maybe it's time to establish a separate list for BSing > about whatever. > > There is no shortage of BS on the web. > There is no shortage of lists either. T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From drydell at att.net Mon Aug 16 19:17:52 2004 From: drydell at att.net (drydell at att.net) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 23:17:52 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] broadcast emailer: is this sane strategy Message-ID: <081620042317.1809.412140A0000104A600000711216028074804040A0B979D0B@att.net> Just as an aside, it's possible to fork a detached php process, all you need to do is turn off stdin and stdout (and you should trap output/errors to a log): exec("/path/to/php /your/script.php 2>>/your/logfile.log >&- <&- >>/your/logfile.log"); > When they click Send -- this is the part that I think merits some thinking > -- I've decided to do a sort of poor man's fork. That is, I write the > message body to a temporary file; then I execute myself with an exec() > call with args $to, $subject, $message_filename and redirect any output to > /dev/null; then I say "see ya later" to the browser. From hans at cyberxdesigns.com Mon Aug 16 21:35:11 2004 From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:35:11 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Mailman and that sorta thing In-Reply-To: <003201c483df$f6ecb470$e98d3818@oberon1> References: <003201c483df$f6ecb470$e98d3818@oberon1> Message-ID: <412160CF.5000305@cyberxdesigns.com> Right on Tim! Hammer the point home. HCK Tim Gales wrote: > putamare writes: > > > >>On Aug 16, 2004, at 5:20 PM, David Mintz wrote: >> >> >>>Maybe it's time to establish a separate list for BSing >>> >>> >>about whatever. >> >>There is no shortage of BS on the web. >> >> >> > There is no shortage of lists either. > >T. Gales & Associates >'Helping People Connect with Technology' > >http://www.tgaconnect.com > > >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmintz at davidmintz.org Mon Aug 16 22:58:55 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:58:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] broadcast emailer: is this sane strategy In-Reply-To: <081620042317.1809.412140A0000104A600000711216028074804040A0B979D0B@att.net> References: <081620042317.1809.412140A0000104A600000711216028074804040A0B979D0B@att.net> Message-ID: Thanks everybody, this is all good stuff to think about. I think saving to a db and using cron might be overkill because this isn't something that's gonna happen more than once every few days, and at irregular intervals, and it isn't going to be more than maybe 150, 200 emails at one shot, at least not in the forseeable future. But I asked for advice and sound advice is what I got, in terms of efficiency, security and (oh no, the S-word) scaleability, so thanks again. On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 drydell at att.net wrote: > Just as an aside, it's possible to fork a detached php process, all you need to do is turn off stdin and stdout (and you should trap output/errors to a log): > > exec("/path/to/php /your/script.php 2>>/your/logfile.log >&- <&- >>/your/logfile.log"); > That's what I'm doing (I think). Although -- correct me if I'm wrong -- I believe technically that ain't true forking, as in pcntl_fork(). --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From drydell at att.net Mon Aug 16 23:06:49 2004 From: drydell at att.net (drydell at att.net) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 03:06:49 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] broadcast emailer: is this sane strategy Message-ID: <081720040306.795.41217648000DA8030000031B216037631604040A0B979D0B@att.net> I'm not sure if it is or not, but it behaves in exactly the same way... I have several long running tasks that I can initiate from a web page, have the next page rendered in the browser immediately, and then watch the background tasks run from a UNIX shell... > Just as an aside, it's possible to fork a detached php process, all you need to do is turn off stdin and stdout (and you should trap output/errors to a log): > > exec("/path/to/php /your/script.php 2>>/your/logfile.log >&- <&- >>/your/logfile.log"); > That's what I'm doing (I think). Although -- correct me if I'm wrong -- I believe technically that ain't true forking, as in pcntl_fork(). From dmintz at davidmintz.org Tue Aug 17 09:46:57 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] fork (broadcast emailer: is this sane strategy) In-Reply-To: <081720040306.795.41217648000DA8030000031B216037631604040A0B979D0B@att.net> References: <081720040306.795.41217648000DA8030000031B216037631604040A0B979D0B@att.net> Message-ID: I'm a total forkin' newbie, but I've read that with "real" forking, the OS will make two identical copies of address spaces, one for the parent and the other for the child. If parent has set $foo = 7 prior to the fork, the child would see $foo = 7 as well. Whereas in this example, we're just launching another independent instance of ourself, and as such we start with a clean slate. True? On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 drydell at att.net wrote: > I'm not sure if it is or not, but it behaves in exactly the same way... I have several long running tasks that I can initiate from a web page, have the next page rendered in the browser immediately, and then watch the background tasks run from a UNIX shell... > > > Just as an aside, it's possible to fork a detached php process, all you need > to do is turn off stdin and stdout (and you should trap output/errors to a log): > > > > exec("/path/to/php /your/script.php 2>>/your/logfile.log >&- <&- > >>/your/logfile.log"); > > > > That's what I'm doing (I think). Although -- correct me if I'm wrong -- I > believe technically that ain't true forking, as in pcntl_fork(). --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From drydell at att.net Tue Aug 17 11:17:28 2004 From: drydell at att.net (drydell at att.net) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:17:28 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] fork (broadcast emailer: is this sane strategy) Message-ID: <081720041517.12655.41222187000E11E60000316F216038311604040A0B979D0B@att.net> I'm not a forkin' expert.. but on one host I did have a problem using the technique I described, and ended up having to force a "clean" environment by wrapping the whole thing in an env: exec("env -i /path/to/php /your/script.php 2>>/your/logfile.log >&- <&- >>/your/logfile.log"); so something "bad" was being inherited by the process... > > I'm a total forkin' newbie, but I've read that with "real" forking, the OS > will make two identical copies of address spaces, one for the parent and > the other for the child. If parent has set $foo = 7 prior to the fork, the > child would see $foo = 7 as well. Whereas in this example, we're just > launching another independent instance of ourself, and as such we start > with a clean slate. > > True? > From dmintz at davidmintz.org Tue Aug 17 15:51:13 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] fork (broadcast emailer: is this sane strategy) In-Reply-To: <081720041517.12655.41222187000E11E60000316F216038311604040A0B979D0B@att.net> References: <081720041517.12655.41222187000E11E60000316F216038311604040A0B979D0B@att.net> Message-ID: Hmmm, by some not-so-funny coincidence I've been going nucking futs trying to fork on this of host of mine, too. I tried something closer to your verbiage and it was better -- I forked, or pseudo-forked, or whatever -- but instead of returning right away, my test that slept for 15 seconds seemed to sleep for a good... 15 seconds! Gonna try some other approach. Sometimes your mileage really does vary quite a bit. Thanks. On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 drydell at att.net wrote: > I'm not a forkin' expert.. but on one host I did have a problem using the technique I described, and ended up having to force a "clean" environment by wrapping the whole thing in an env: > > exec("env -i /path/to/php /your/script.php 2>>/your/logfile.log >&- <&- >>/your/logfile.log"); > > so something "bad" was being inherited by the process... > > > > > I'm a total forkin' newbie, but I've read that with "real" forking, the OS > > will make two identical copies of address spaces, one for the parent and > > the other for the child. If parent has set $foo = 7 prior to the fork, the > > child would see $foo = 7 as well. Whereas in this example, we're just > > launching another independent instance of ourself, and as such we start > > with a clean slate. --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From drydell at att.net Tue Aug 17 16:30:32 2004 From: drydell at att.net (drydell at att.net) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:30:32 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] fork (broadcast emailer: is this sane strategy) Message-ID: <081720042030.21599.41226AE80009459C0000545F216028074804040A0B979D0B@att.net> in my case, the "dirty" environment seemed to be inherited from Apache (v 2.0.48)... that might be a place to look. > > Hmmm, by some not-so-funny coincidence I've been going nucking futs trying > to fork on this of host of mine, too. I tried something closer to your > verbiage and it was better -- I forked, or pseudo-forked, or whatever -- > but instead of returning right away, my test that slept for 15 seconds > seemed to sleep for a good... 15 seconds! Gonna try some other approach. > Sometimes your mileage really does vary quite a bit. Thanks. > From tom at supertom.com Tue Aug 17 16:34:31 2004 From: tom at supertom.com (Tom Melendez) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:34:31 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Bit-Vector equivalent for PHP? In-Reply-To: <20040816203328.GA18988@panix.com> References: <028301c483c4$84c94c70$800101df@dorganmobile> <412106D4.8040903@bitblit.net> <02b701c483c6$0d21d1e0$800101df@dorganmobile> <41211137.7070906@bitblit.net> <20040816203328.GA18988@panix.com> Message-ID: <1092774870.4663.9.camel@tmelendez.int.bascom.com> Hey Folks, Is there an equivalent to the Perl Bit-Vector package in PHP? I searched through this list, and the web, without much luck. If not, anyone have any classes they are using to flip bits? Thanks, Tom www.liphp.org From lists at prusak.com Wed Aug 18 08:11:53 2004 From: lists at prusak.com (ophir prusak) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:11:53 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Bit-Vector equivalent for PHP? In-Reply-To: <1092774870.4663.9.camel@tmelendez.int.bascom.com> References: <028301c483c4$84c94c70$800101df@dorganmobile> <412106D4.8040903@bitblit.net> <02b701c483c6$0d21d1e0$800101df@dorganmobile> <41211137.7070906@bitblit.net> <20040816203328.GA18988@panix.com> <1092774870.4663.9.camel@tmelendez.int.bascom.com> Message-ID: <41234789.3000706@prusak.com> Hi Tom, I'm not familiar with Perl's Bit-Vector package, but why not just use simple bitwise operators? http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.operators.bitwise.php Do you need more than 32 bits? For flipping bits - why not just XOR the vector with ones ? Ophir Tom Melendez wrote: >Hey Folks, > >Is there an equivalent to the Perl Bit-Vector package in PHP? > >I searched through this list, and the web, without much luck. > >If not, anyone have any classes they are using to flip bits? > >Thanks, > >Tom >www.liphp.org > >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From lists at prusak.com Wed Aug 18 08:20:58 2004 From: lists at prusak.com (ophir prusak) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:20:58 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] fork (broadcast emailer: is this sane strategy) In-Reply-To: References: <081720040306.795.41217648000DA8030000031B216037631604040A0B979D0B@att.net> Message-ID: <412349AA.7020204@prusak.com> I've never had to use real forks in PHP thought I have in Perl. Using the PHP exec command doesn't do "real" forking, it just creates a new process in the background. If you want real forking use the pcntl_fork command. http://us3.php.net/manual/en/function.pcntl-fork.php The user comments are helpful Ophir David Mintz wrote: >I'm a total forkin' newbie, but I've read that with "real" forking, the OS >will make two identical copies of address spaces, one for the parent and >the other for the child. If parent has set $foo = 7 prior to the fork, the >child would see $foo = 7 as well. Whereas in this example, we're just >launching another independent instance of ourself, and as such we start >with a clean slate. > >True? > >On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 drydell at att.net wrote: > > > >>I'm not sure if it is or not, but it behaves in exactly the same way... I have several long running tasks that I can initiate from a web page, have the next page rendered in the browser immediately, and then watch the background tasks run from a UNIX shell... >> >> >> >>>Just as an aside, it's possible to fork a detached php process, all you need >>> >>> >>to do is turn off stdin and stdout (and you should trap output/errors to a log): >> >> >>>exec("/path/to/php /your/script.php 2>>/your/logfile.log >&- <&- >>> >>> >>>>/your/logfile.log"); >>>> >>>> >>That's what I'm doing (I think). Although -- correct me if I'm wrong -- I >>believe technically that ain't true forking, as in pcntl_fork(). >> >> > > > >--- >David Mintz >http://davidmintz.org/ > > "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tom at supertom.com Wed Aug 18 08:48:34 2004 From: tom at supertom.com (Tom) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:48:34 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Bit-Vector equivalent for PHP? In-Reply-To: <41234789.3000706@prusak.com> Message-ID: <0I2N00I4W6UZL1@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Hi Ophir, Thanks for the response. Yes, I need more than 32 bits. :-( Worst case, I'll just shell-exec to a Perl program, but I just wanted to see if anyone had any other ideas. Tom -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of ophir prusak Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 8:12 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Bit-Vector equivalent for PHP? Hi Tom, I'm not familiar with Perl's Bit-Vector package, but why not just use simple bitwise operators? http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.operators.bitwise.php Do you need more than 32 bits? For flipping bits - why not just XOR the vector with ones ? Ophir Tom Melendez wrote: >Hey Folks, > >Is there an equivalent to the Perl Bit-Vector package in PHP? > >I searched through this list, and the web, without much luck. > >If not, anyone have any classes they are using to flip bits? > >Thanks, > >Tom >www.liphp.org > >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org > > _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From adam at trachtenberg.com Wed Aug 18 10:04:20 2004 From: adam at trachtenberg.com (Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:04:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Bit-Vector equivalent for PHP? In-Reply-To: <0I2N00I4W6UZL1@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <0I2N00I4W6UZL1@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, Tom wrote: > Yes, I need more than 32 bits. :-( > > Worst case, I'll just shell-exec to a Perl program, but I just wanted to see > if anyone had any other ideas. GMP allows arbitrary-length integers and supports logical operations. I bet you could write some nice wrappers around that. http://www.php.net/gmp -adam -- adam at trachtenberg.com author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook" avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today! From tom at supertom.com Wed Aug 18 10:29:48 2004 From: tom at supertom.com (Tom Melendez) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:29:48 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Bit-Vector equivalent for PHP? In-Reply-To: References: <0I2N00I4W6UZL1@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <1092839387.5054.8.camel@tmelendez.int.bascom.com> Thanks, Adam, this looks interesting. I will have a look! Tom On Wed, 2004-08-18 at 10:04, Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg wrote: > On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, Tom wrote: > > > Yes, I need more than 32 bits. :-( > > > > Worst case, I'll just shell-exec to a Perl program, but I just wanted to see > > if anyone had any other ideas. > > GMP allows arbitrary-length integers and supports logical > operations. I bet you could write some nice wrappers around that. > > http://www.php.net/gmp > > -adam -- ==== ======================== Tom Melendez Senior Software Developer BASCOM Global Internet Services, Inc. Phone : 631-434-6600 Fax : 631-434-7800 Email : tmelendez at bascom.com Web : http://www.bascom.com ======================== From george at omniti.com Wed Aug 18 10:45:07 2004 From: george at omniti.com (George Schlossnagle) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:45:07 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] fork (broadcast emailer: is this sane strategy) In-Reply-To: <412349AA.7020204@prusak.com> References: <081720040306.795.41217648000DA8030000031B216037631604040A0B979D0B@att.net> <412349AA.7020204@prusak.com> Message-ID: <327C1CBB-F125-11D8-9C27-000D93359332@omniti.com> On Aug 18, 2004, at 8:20 AM, ophir prusak wrote: > I've never had to use real forks in PHP thought I have in Perl. > Using the PHP exec command doesn't do "real" forking, it just creates > a new process in the background. How do you think that new process is created? PHP does: if(fork() == 0) { execve(newProcessExecutable, argv, envp); } That's how you create a new process in UNIX systems programming. George -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 447 bytes Desc: not available URL: From joel at tagword.com Wed Aug 18 12:25:30 2004 From: joel at tagword.com (Joel De Gan) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:25:30 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] fork (broadcast emailer: is this sane strategy) In-Reply-To: <412349AA.7020204@prusak.com> References: <081720040306.795.41217648000DA8030000031B216037631604040A0B979D0B@att.net> <412349AA.7020204@prusak.com> Message-ID: <1092846330.7610.29.camel@bezel> Speaking of one of those comments (the one by me in particular). That drove me insane for a long time, that comment will help save you a "lot" of grief dealing with zombies that are generated by just following the basic function reference. -joeldg On Wed, 2004-08-18 at 12:20, ophir prusak wrote: > I've never had to use real forks in PHP thought I have in Perl. > Using the PHP exec command doesn't do "real" forking, it just creates > a new process in the background. > If you want real forking use the pcntl_fork command. > http://us3.php.net/manual/en/function.pcntl-fork.php > The user comments are helpful > > Ophir > > David Mintz wrote: > > I'm a total forkin' newbie, but I've read that with "real" forking, the OS > > will make two identical copies of address spaces, one for the parent and > > the other for the child. If parent has set $foo = 7 prior to the fork, the > > child would see $foo = 7 as well. Whereas in this example, we're just > > launching another independent instance of ourself, and as such we start > > with a clean slate. > > > > True? > > > > On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 drydell at att.net wrote: > > > > > > > I'm not sure if it is or not, but it behaves in exactly the same way... I have several long running tasks that I can initiate from a web page, have the next page rendered in the browser immediately, and then watch the background tasks run from a UNIX shell... > > > > > > > > > > Just as an aside, it's possible to fork a detached php process, all you need > > > > > > > to do is turn off stdin and stdout (and you should trap output/errors to a log): > > > > > > > exec("/path/to/php /your/script.php 2>>/your/logfile.log >&- <&- > > > > > > > > > /your/logfile.log"); > > > > > > > > That's what I'm doing (I think). Although -- correct me if I'm wrong -- I > > > believe technically that ain't true forking, as in pcntl_fork(). > > > > > > > > > --- > > David Mintz > > http://davidmintz.org/ > > > > "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Talk > > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org -- joeldg - developer, Intercosmos media group. http://lucifer.intercosmos.net From dmintz at davidmintz.org Wed Aug 18 12:39:38 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 12:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] fork (broadcast emailer: is this sane strategy) In-Reply-To: <327C1CBB-F125-11D8-9C27-000D93359332@omniti.com> References: <081720040306.795.41217648000DA8030000031B216037631604040A0B979D0B@att.net> <412349AA.7020204@prusak.com> <327C1CBB-F125-11D8-9C27-000D93359332@omniti.com> Message-ID: I investigated pcntl_fork() and friends, and read: "Process Control should not be enabled within a webserver environment and unexpected results may happen if any Process Control functions are used within a webserver environment." ...and indeed it isn't enabled on my host. (Meanwhile I'm coming up with what I believe to me a serviceable solution to my mini-broadcast email thing: ask them not to abort the process by hitting back or reload etc; set max_execution_time to 0; send all the emails while printing progress info to the screen and flush()ing; then output some javascrap that redirects them to a confirmation page (apologies to Dan C. (-: )). On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, George Schlossnagle wrote: > On Aug 18, 2004, at 8:20 AM, ophir prusak wrote: > > > I've never had to use real forks in PHP thought I have in Perl. > > Using the PHP exec command doesn't do "real" forking, it just creates > > a new process in the background. > > How do you think that new process is created? PHP does: > > if(fork() == 0) { > execve(newProcessExecutable, argv, envp); > } > > That's how you create a new process in UNIX systems programming. --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From joel at tagword.com Wed Aug 18 14:33:40 2004 From: joel at tagword.com (Joel De Gan) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 18:33:40 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? Message-ID: <1092854020.7611.43.camel@bezel> Hi all: I am building a free service, project at http://historyagent.com/ It is primarily geared for the Firefox browser but obviously would like it work in all browsers. Couple questions: I am currently working with a browsercam free account to do the compatibility issues. Anyone have any experience with other browser tester sites? I know this is a common issue.. Also will be adding in rdf/rss/atom/js feeds per user today and was wondering if some people wanted to be a lab rats? Thanks -- joeldg - developer, Intercosmos media group. http://lucifer.intercosmos.net From Cbielanski at inta.org Wed Aug 18 14:38:06 2004 From: Cbielanski at inta.org (Chris Bielanski) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:38:06 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? Message-ID: I'll see if I can get motivated to build an RSS reader and put it on my site. Contact me offlist (warmage (at) velvetsofa (dot) com) Thanks, Chris Bielanski Web Programmer, International Trademark Association, 1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor New York, NY 10036 +1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence > -----Original Message----- > From: Joel De Gan [mailto:joel at tagword.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 2:34 PM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? > > > Hi all: > I am building a free service, project at http://historyagent.com/ > It is primarily geared for the Firefox browser but obviously > would like > it work in all browsers. > > Couple questions: > > I am currently working with a browsercam free account to do the > compatibility issues. Anyone have any experience with other browser > tester sites? > > I know this is a common issue.. > > Also will be adding in rdf/rss/atom/js feeds per user today and was > wondering if some people wanted to be a lab rats? > > Thanks > > -- > joeldg - developer, Intercosmos media group. > http://lucifer.intercosmos.net > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From yury at heavenspa.com Wed Aug 18 14:57:38 2004 From: yury at heavenspa.com (Yury Rush) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:57:38 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? In-Reply-To: <1092854020.7611.43.camel@bezel> Message-ID: Joel -- cool. Can i offer this: http://www.motionrush.com/preview/historyagent/hg.gif sorry that your logo was.. well :)... I had a few minutes free and this is what happened. hope you can use it. regards yury http://www.motionrush.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joel De Gan Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:34 PM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? Hi all: I am building a free service, project at http://historyagent.com/ It is primarily geared for the Firefox browser but obviously would like it work in all browsers. Couple questions: I am currently working with a browsercam free account to do the compatibility issues. Anyone have any experience with other browser tester sites? I know this is a common issue.. Also will be adding in rdf/rss/atom/js feeds per user today and was wondering if some people wanted to be a lab rats? Thanks -- joeldg - developer, Intercosmos media group. http://lucifer.intercosmos.net _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From jcrawford at codebowl.com Wed Aug 18 15:02:21 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 15:02:21 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? References: Message-ID: <003901c48555$e4404c70$524a4044@codebowl> nice logo's you seem good with design contact me off list for a full site design quote. Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yury Rush" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 2:57 PM Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? > Joel -- cool. > > Can i offer this: > > http://www.motionrush.com/preview/historyagent/hg.gif > > sorry that your logo was.. well :)... > > I had a few minutes free and this is what happened. > > hope you can use it. > regards > yury > > http://www.motionrush.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joel De Gan > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:34 PM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? > > > Hi all: > I am building a free service, project at http://historyagent.com/ > It is primarily geared for the Firefox browser but obviously would like > it work in all browsers. > > Couple questions: > > I am currently working with a browsercam free account to do the > compatibility issues. Anyone have any experience with other browser > tester sites? > > I know this is a common issue.. > > Also will be adding in rdf/rss/atom/js feeds per user today and was > wondering if some people wanted to be a lab rats? > > Thanks > > -- > joeldg - developer, Intercosmos media group. > http://lucifer.intercosmos.net > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From joel at tagword.com Wed Aug 18 15:00:52 2004 From: joel at tagword.com (Joel De Gan) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:00:52 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1092855652.10563.50.camel@bezel> dude!!! you rock.. thank you so much.. where can I link to you for credit and such? wow, thanks! -joeldg On Wed, 2004-08-18 at 18:57, Yury Rush wrote: > Joel -- cool. > > Can i offer this: > > http://www.motionrush.com/preview/historyagent/hg.gif > > sorry that your logo was.. well :)... > > I had a few minutes free and this is what happened. > > hope you can use it. > regards > yury > > http://www.motionrush.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joel De Gan > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:34 PM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? > > > Hi all: > I am building a free service, project at http://historyagent.com/ > It is primarily geared for the Firefox browser but obviously would like > it work in all browsers. > > Couple questions: > > I am currently working with a browsercam free account to do the > compatibility issues. Anyone have any experience with other browser > tester sites? > > I know this is a common issue.. > > Also will be adding in rdf/rss/atom/js feeds per user today and was > wondering if some people wanted to be a lab rats? > > Thanks -- joeldg - developer, Intercosmos media group. http://lucifer.intercosmos.net From yury at heavenspa.com Wed Aug 18 15:14:11 2004 From: yury at heavenspa.com (Yury Rush) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 15:14:11 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? In-Reply-To: <1092855652.10563.50.camel@bezel> Message-ID: Joel -- thanks :) Now if i could only find someone to give me a great F/T job making cool stuff like this all day!! regarding credit: yury rush www.motionrush.com is fine, thanks for the credits offer. Ok people, now enough design talk! back to the echo's and .. :-) ciao yury yury rush senior web designer heavenspa.com www.heavenspa.com 212.244.0010 yury at heavenspa.com -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joel De Gan Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 2:01 PM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? dude!!! you rock.. thank you so much.. where can I link to you for credit and such? wow, thanks! -joeldg On Wed, 2004-08-18 at 18:57, Yury Rush wrote: > Joel -- cool. > > Can i offer this: > > http://www.motionrush.com/preview/historyagent/hg.gif > > sorry that your logo was.. well :)... > > I had a few minutes free and this is what happened. > > hope you can use it. > regards > yury > > http://www.motionrush.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joel De Gan > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:34 PM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? > > > Hi all: > I am building a free service, project at http://historyagent.com/ > It is primarily geared for the Firefox browser but obviously would like > it work in all browsers. > > Couple questions: > > I am currently working with a browsercam free account to do the > compatibility issues. Anyone have any experience with other browser > tester sites? > > I know this is a common issue.. > > Also will be adding in rdf/rss/atom/js feeds per user today and was > wondering if some people wanted to be a lab rats? > > Thanks -- joeldg - developer, Intercosmos media group. http://lucifer.intercosmos.net _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From yury at heavenspa.com Wed Aug 18 15:14:13 2004 From: yury at heavenspa.com (Yury Rush) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 15:14:13 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? In-Reply-To: <003901c48555$e4404c70$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: Joe, thanks for the compliments, can you reply with your email please. regards yury -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joseph Crawford Jr. Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 2:02 PM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? nice logo's you seem good with design contact me off list for a full site design quote. Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yury Rush" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 2:57 PM Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? > Joel -- cool. > > Can i offer this: > > http://www.motionrush.com/preview/historyagent/hg.gif > > sorry that your logo was.. well :)... > > I had a few minutes free and this is what happened. > > hope you can use it. > regards > yury > > http://www.motionrush.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]On Behalf Of Joel De Gan > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:34 PM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? > > > Hi all: > I am building a free service, project at http://historyagent.com/ > It is primarily geared for the Firefox browser but obviously would like > it work in all browsers. > > Couple questions: > > I am currently working with a browsercam free account to do the > compatibility issues. Anyone have any experience with other browser > tester sites? > > I know this is a common issue.. > > Also will be adding in rdf/rss/atom/js feeds per user today and was > wondering if some people wanted to be a lab rats? > > Thanks > > -- > joeldg - developer, Intercosmos media group. > http://lucifer.intercosmos.net > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From lists at prusak.com Thu Aug 19 09:02:40 2004 From: lists at prusak.com (ophir prusak) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:02:40 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP resources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4124A4F0.60607@prusak.com> Hi All, I was wondering what resources (sites, mailing lists, ezines, magazines, etc) other people use to read PHP related articles and know what's happening the PHP world. There is a nice list at http://www.php.net/links.php but I really wanted to know other people's opinions on what's good and what's not. Thanx, Ophir From nyphp at enobrev.com Thu Aug 19 10:41:06 2004 From: nyphp at enobrev.com (Mark Armendariz) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 10:41:06 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP resources In-Reply-To: <4124A4F0.60607@prusak.com> Message-ID: <20040819144108.1DB09A8633@virtu.nyphp.org> Mostly due to time constraints, I find my PHP info in my rss sidebar far more than I do in my bookmarks... PHPDelevloper http://www.phpdeveloper.org/ (worth a daily visit for day-to-day php news) John Coggeshall's http://blog.coggeshall.org/ (welcome to NY, John) John Lim's http://phplens.com/phpeverywhere/ George Schlossnagle's http://www.schlossnagle.org/~george/blog/ Marco Tabini's http://blogs.phparch.com/mt/ Jeremy Zowodny's http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/ Jeff Moore's http://www.procata.com/blog/ Jason Sweat's http://blog.casey-sweat.us/ Andrei Zmievski's http://www.gravitonic.com/ Harry Fueck's http://www.phppatterns.com/ And despite the high subscription price, I try to make time for PHP|Arch and PHPMag every month. AS far as general sites, Zend http://www.zend.com/developers.php the manual http://www.php.net SitePoint http://www.sitepoint.com (advanced forums have tons of in-depth oo conversation) DevShed http://www.devshed.com/ (good general resource - beyond php as well) And of course this list and all the people I've met here and elsewhere who tend to have good, solid answers no matter how rare the question. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of ophir prusak > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:03 AM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP resources > > Hi All, > > I was wondering what resources (sites, mailing lists, ezines, > magazines, > etc) other people use to read PHP related articles and know > what's happening the PHP world. > > There is a nice list at http://www.php.net/links.php but I > really wanted to know other people's opinions on what's good > and what's not. > > Thanx, > Ophir > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From wfan at VillageVoice.com Thu Aug 19 10:47:18 2004 From: wfan at VillageVoice.com (Fan, Wellington) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 10:47:18 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] parse file, return as string Message-ID: <1448FB4565D489478642386D50D3FB77046C9D2E@VVNTMAIL.sternpubny> Howdy Listies, I want to run a PHP file through the PHP interpreter and return the results as a string. THe File is not necessarily under docroot, so I've used this: ob_start(); @include($path_to_file); $contents = ob_get_clean(); But it seems like I could do this much more elegantly... Any suggestions? -- Wellington From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Thu Aug 19 10:58:07 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 10:58:07 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP resources In-Reply-To: <20040819144108.1DB09A8633@virtu.nyphp.org> References: <20040819144108.1DB09A8633@virtu.nyphp.org> Message-ID: <4124BFFF.4040708@spacemonkeylabs.com> Mark Armendariz wrote: >Mostly due to time constraints, I find my PHP info in my rss sidebar far >more than I do in my bookmarks... > Then you definitely need these two, as they are RSS feeds of other RSS feeds ;-) PlanetPHP (blogs from prominent PHP folks): http://www.planet-php.net/ F/OSS Planet (more than just PHP): http://osplanet.osdir.com/ These two can fill up those sidebars nicely. :D -- Mitch From sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com Thu Aug 19 11:29:42 2004 From: sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:29:42 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] parse file, return as string In-Reply-To: <1448FB4565D489478642386D50D3FB77046C9D2E@VVNTMAIL.sternpubny> References: <1448FB4565D489478642386D50D3FB77046C9D2E@VVNTMAIL.sternpubny> Message-ID: <27248-09674@sneakemail.com> Fan, Wellington wfan-at-VillageVoice.com |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: >Howdy Listies, > >I want to run a PHP file through the PHP interpreter and return the results >as a string. THe File is not necessarily under docroot, so I've used this: > >ob_start(); >@include($path_to_file); >$contents = ob_get_clean(); > >But it seems like I could do this much more elegantly... > >Any suggestions? > >-- >Wellington > >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > be very wary of remote injections with that code.... include will accept a URL in that variable. Explicitly allow $path_to_file (is it expected to allways be on *your* domain?). -=john andrews -- CONSERVATIVE, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.Ambrose Bierce From dmintz at davidmintz.org Thu Aug 19 12:07:05 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:07:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] parse file, return as string In-Reply-To: <27248-09674@sneakemail.com> References: <1448FB4565D489478642386D50D3FB77046C9D2E@VVNTMAIL.sternpubny> <27248-09674@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, inforequest wrote: > Fan, Wellington wfan-at-VillageVoice.com |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: > > >ob_start(); > >@include($path_to_file); > >$contents = ob_get_clean(); > > > > > be very wary of remote injections with that code.... include will accept > a URL in that variable. Explicitly allow $path_to_file (is it expected > to allways be on *your* domain?). > If you have allow_url_fopen disabled, include('http://evil.com/evil.php') will fail, right? --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From tgales at tgaconnect.com Thu Aug 19 13:28:12 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:28:12 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] parse file, return as string In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c48611$e84330a0$e98d3818@oberon1> David Mintz > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 12:07 PM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] parse file, return as string > > > On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, inforequest wrote: > > > Fan, Wellington wfan-at-VillageVoice.com |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: > > > > >ob_start(); > > >@include($path_to_file); > > >$contents = ob_get_clean(); > > > > > > > > be very wary of remote injections with that code.... include will > > accept a URL in that variable. Explicitly allow > $path_to_file (is it > > expected to allways be on *your* domain?). > > > > If you have allow_url_fopen disabled, > include('http://evil.com/evil.php') > will fail, right? allow_url_fopen is a system level configuration directive and can only be set or unset in php.ini. (you can't undo the setting dynamically at runtime for security reasons) To keep out 'evil.php' you would have to disallow opening url's anywhere -- if you go that route. Like many security 'fixes', this cure strikes me as worse than the illness. (I think it would certainly put a damper on using pcoms for instance) I believe you are taking a 'blacklist' approach -- trying to make sure an 'evil.php' doesn't affect you. You might be better off to take a 'whitelist' approach like the ones Chris Shiflett speaks about from time to time in his security workshops. T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From wfan at VillageVoice.com Thu Aug 19 13:40:24 2004 From: wfan at VillageVoice.com (Fan, Wellington) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:40:24 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] parse file, return as string Message-ID: <1448FB4565D489478642386D50D3FB77046C9D2F@VVNTMAIL.sternpubny> > > On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, inforequest wrote: > > > > > Fan, Wellington wfan-at-VillageVoice.com |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: > > > > > > >ob_start(); > > > >@include($path_to_file); > > > >$contents = ob_get_clean(); > > > > > > > > > > > be very wary of remote injections with that code.... include will > > > accept a URL in that variable. Explicitly allow I am under complete control of $path_to_file -- AND it will likely point to a file outside of docroot. So, besides the potential injection problems of the above code, any other way to parse a PHP file and return as a string? -- WF From scott at crisscott.com Thu Aug 19 13:46:02 2004 From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:46:02 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] parse file, return as string In-Reply-To: <1448FB4565D489478642386D50D3FB77046C9D2F@VVNTMAIL.sternpubny> References: <1448FB4565D489478642386D50D3FB77046C9D2F@VVNTMAIL.sternpubny> Message-ID: <4124E75A.60107@crisscott.com> Fan, Wellington wrote: > I am under complete control of $path_to_file -- AND it will likely point to > a file outside of docroot. > > So, besides the potential injection problems of the above code, any other > way to parse a PHP file and return as a string? If you put a return value in the file it will be returned by the include call. From: http://us2.php.net/manual/en/function.include.php Handling Returns: It is possible to execute a return() statement inside an included file in order to terminate processing in that file and return to the script which called it. Also, it's possible to return values from included files. You can take the value of the include call as you would a normal function. This is not, however, possible when including remote files unless the output of the remote file has valid PHP start and end tags (as with any local file). You can declare the needed variables within those tags and they will be introduced at whichever point the file was included. Scott Mattocks From cmerlo at ncc.edu Thu Aug 19 13:56:52 2004 From: cmerlo at ncc.edu (Christopher R. Merlo) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:56:52 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR files not in directory I expected Message-ID: <20040819175652.GA23185@ncc.edu> Folks: I'm trying to use some PEAR stuff for the first time on this particular server. The include path in the php.ini is, as I expected, /usr/share/pear. That directory exists, but has very few files in it. After a find for QuickForm.php, I noticed it's in /usr/local/lib/php/. Should I move the files, make a symlink, change my include path, re-install PEAR, or something else? The server's running Debian stable, and I have root access. TIA, -c -- cmerlo at ncc.edu http://turing.matcmp.ncc.edu/~cmerlo It is practically impossible to teach good programming style to students that have had prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration. - Edsger W. Dijkstra, SIGPLAN Notices, Volume 17, Number 5 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tgales at tgaconnect.com Thu Aug 19 14:09:24 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:09:24 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] parse file, return as string In-Reply-To: <1448FB4565D489478642386D50D3FB77046C9D2F@VVNTMAIL.sternpubny> Message-ID: <000101c48617$a91ee300$e98d3818@oberon1> Wellington Fan writes: > [is there] any other > way to parse a PHP file and return as a string? > You could do something like filter out comments as in the example 1 at: http://us2.php.net/tokenizer T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From wfan at VillageVoice.com Thu Aug 19 14:12:23 2004 From: wfan at VillageVoice.com (Fan, Wellington) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:12:23 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] parse file, return as string Message-ID: <1448FB4565D489478642386D50D3FB77046C9D30@VVNTMAIL.sternpubny> Thanks, all for the input. Sounds like too much work for what I plan to do with it. Gonna stick with my original code. > > Wellington Fan writes: > > [is there] any other > > way to parse a PHP file and return as a string? > > > > You could do something like filter out comments > as in the example 1 at: http://us2.php.net/tokenizer > From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Thu Aug 19 14:27:06 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:27:06 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] parse file, return as string In-Reply-To: <1448FB4565D489478642386D50D3FB77046C9D30@VVNTMAIL.sternpubny> References: <1448FB4565D489478642386D50D3FB77046C9D30@VVNTMAIL.sternpubny> Message-ID: <20040819182705.GA29266@panix.com> On Thu, Aug 19, 2004 at 02:12:23PM -0400, Fan, Wellington wrote: > Thanks, all for the input. Sounds like too much work for what I plan to do > with it. Gonna stick with my original code. What's hard about what Scott said? Here's an example... ---- test.inc ---- The file that I want to include is a big old PHP script with a lot of logic in it that I don't want to bother collecting into a return value. There's a lot of echo's sprinkled throughout the code that I would have to change... concat them into a single return var... > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Convissor [mailto:danielc at analysisandsolutions.com] > > What's hard about what Scott said? Here's an example... > > --Dan From tgales at tgaconnect.com Thu Aug 19 14:47:31 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:47:31 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR files not in directory I expected In-Reply-To: <20040819175652.GA23185@ncc.edu> Message-ID: <000b01c4861c$fbe10190$e98d3818@oberon1> > -----Original Message----- > From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of > Christopher R. Merlo > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 1:57 PM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: [nycphp-talk] PEAR files not in directory I expected > > > Folks: > I'm trying to use some PEAR stuff for the first time on this > particular server. The include path in the php.ini is, as I > expected, /usr/share/pear. That directory exists, but has > very few files in it. After a find for QuickForm.php, I > noticed it's in /usr/local/lib/php/. Should I move the files, > make a symlink, change my include path, re-install PEAR, or > something else? The server's running Debian stable, and I > have root access. > You should probably try and determine if the registry is good or not. I would look for a file called pear.ini. If you find it change to that directory and see if you can run the pear script: 'pear help' and then pear 'package-dependencies Pear'. (you could try some more commands -- list-upgrades might be a good one to try) If things look good, you could just add on the directory to your include description. T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From dmintz at davidmintz.org Thu Aug 19 15:24:09 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] allow_url_fopen (was: parse file, return as string) In-Reply-To: <000001c48611$e84330a0$e98d3818@oberon1> References: <000001c48611$e84330a0$e98d3818@oberon1> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, Tim Gales wrote: > > If you have allow_url_fopen disabled, > > include('http://evil.com/evil.php') > > will fail, right? > > allow_url_fopen is a system level configuration > directive and can only be set or unset in php.ini. > (you can't undo the setting dynamically at runtime for > security reasons) I realize that's what the docs say, yet interestingly enough, I can ini_set this value on at least one of the hosts I use. Ouput: Current value: disabled ....now: enabled Followed by our phpinfo which says allow_url_fopen: master value off, local value on. (PHP 4.3.4 running as an Apache 1.3.29 module) > > I believe you are taking a 'blacklist' > approach -- trying to make sure an > 'evil.php' doesn't affect you. > > You might be better off to take > a 'whitelist' approach like the ones > Chris Shiflett speaks about from time > to time in his security workshops. You talkin' to ~me~? I'm already convinced of the above (-: --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From george at omniti.com Thu Aug 19 15:35:00 2004 From: george at omniti.com (George Schlossnagle) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:35:00 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] allow_url_fopen (was: parse file, return as string) In-Reply-To: References: <000001c48611$e84330a0$e98d3818@oberon1> Message-ID: On Aug 19, 2004, at 3:24 PM, David Mintz wrote: >> > I realize that's what the docs say, yet interestingly enough, I can > ini_set this value on at least one of the hosts I use. > > echo "Current value: " ; > echo ini_get('allow_url_fopen') ? 'enabled' : 'disabled' ; > ini_set('allow_url_fopen',1); > echo " ....and now: "; > echo ini_get('allow_url_fopen') ? 'enabled' : 'disabled' ; > phpinfo(); > ?> > > Ouput: > > Current value: disabled ....now: enabled > > Followed by our phpinfo which says allow_url_fopen: master value off, > local value on. (PHP 4.3.4 running as an Apache 1.3.29 module) Your clients are running a version 4 point releases and nearly a year old. You should upgrade, for the sake of this security issue as well as others. George p.s. the issue you describe was fixed in 4.3.5, over half a year ago. From tgales at tgaconnect.com Thu Aug 19 15:51:04 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:51:04 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] allow_url_fopen (was: parse file, return as string) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000e01c48625$dca8d2e0$e98d3818@oberon1> David Mintz > On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, Tim Gales wrote: > > > allow_url_fopen is a system level configuration > > directive and can only be set or unset in php.ini. > > (you can't undo the setting dynamically at runtime for security > > reasons) > > I realize that's what the docs say, yet interestingly enough, > I can ini_set this value on at least one of the hosts I use. > > echo "Current value: " ; > echo ini_get('allow_url_fopen') ? 'enabled' : 'disabled' ; > ini_set('allow_url_fopen',1); echo " ....and now: "; echo > ini_get('allow_url_fopen') ? 'enabled' : 'disabled' ; phpinfo(); ?> > > Ouput: > > Current value: disabled ....now: enabled > > Followed by our phpinfo which says allow_url_fopen: master > value off, local value on. (PHP 4.3.4 running as an Apache > 1.3.29 module) > Before 4.3.5 doesn't count. (King's cross -- you probably didn't notice I crossed my fingers on one hand) Changed "allow_url_fopen" php.ini option to be PHP_INI_SYSTEM. (Sara) http://www.php.net/ChangeLog-4.php T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From dmintz at davidmintz.org Thu Aug 19 16:18:10 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:18:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] allow_url_fopen (was: parse file, return as string) In-Reply-To: References: <000001c48611$e84330a0$e98d3818@oberon1> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, George Schlossnagle wrote: > > Ouput: > > > > Current value: disabled ....now: enabled > > > > Followed by our phpinfo which says allow_url_fopen: master value off, > > local value on. (PHP 4.3.4 running as an Apache 1.3.29 module) > > Your clients are running a version 4 point releases and nearly a year > old. You should upgrade, for the sake of this security issue as well > as others. > > George > > p.s. the issue you describe was fixed in 4.3.5, over half a year ago. Oh my. Thanks for the enlightenment. I think these guys (pair Networks) are running the version they're running for reasons of their own other than laziness/cluelessness, but who knows. Their customer newsletter recently said, hey, we are now setting allow_url_fopen = off in our php.ini (because of all the carelessly written stuff that had been hacked on their servers), so if you need it, you better ini_set() it yourself. I guess whenever they do upgrade, and if they do keep that setting, I can either run in CGI mode and write my own damn php.ini, or use cURL. Or... what would you suggest, if you need to go out and fetch a web page somewhere once in a while? Oops, reading again I see: "you should upgrade." Maybe I'll try compiling my own 4.3.8 and using CGI mode. --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From scott at crisscott.com Thu Aug 19 16:24:31 2004 From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:24:31 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] allow_url_fopen In-Reply-To: References: <000001c48611$e84330a0$e98d3818@oberon1> Message-ID: <41250C7F.2070108@crisscott.com> David Mintz wrote: > On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, George Schlossnagle wrote: > I guess whenever they do upgrade, and if they do keep that setting, I can > either run in CGI mode and write my own damn php.ini, or use cURL. Or... > what would you suggest, if you need to go out and fetch a web page > somewhere once in a while? You could try PEAR HTTP_Request. The introduction section of the docs has an example about fetching and displaying a web page. http://pear.php.net/package/HTTP_Request Scott Mattocks From lists at ny-tech.net Thu Aug 19 20:32:17 2004 From: lists at ny-tech.net (Nasir Zubair) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:32:17 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] AMP for Mac OS X Message-ID: Hi all, I have to port a website onto a Mac powerbook, OS X panther. Client is going on vacation and wants to take his database with him in order to work on it without having to worry about internet connection. Since the site is already running on LAMP. I figured it would be easier to install php/mysql/apache on his notebook, than having to port it to something else. Is there any package like XAMPP? A pakcage that would install apache/mysql/php for OS X. If not, I'd appreciate some guides/tutorials regarding this. Thanks, Nasir From jlacey at att.net Thu Aug 19 20:47:53 2004 From: jlacey at att.net (John Lacey) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 18:47:53 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] AMP for Mac OS X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41254A39.2080703@att.net> Nasir Zubair wrote: > Hi all, > > I have to port a website onto a Mac powerbook, OS X panther. Client is > going on vacation and wants to take his database with him in order to > work on it without having to worry about internet connection. Since the > site is already running on LAMP. I figured it would be easier to > install php/mysql/apache on his notebook, than having to port it to > something else. > > Is there any package like XAMPP? A pakcage that would install > apache/mysql/php for OS X. If not, I'd appreciate some guides/tutorials > regarding this. check this nyphp thread: http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/2004-July/010975.html and this site: http://www.entropy.ch/software/macosx/mysql/ John From yvan.strahm at med.monash.edu.au Thu Aug 19 20:50:00 2004 From: yvan.strahm at med.monash.edu.au (yvan) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:50:00 +1000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] AMP for Mac OS X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Nasir, Have a look at: http://www.entropy.ch/home/ But if i am not wrong apache (for sure), and php are part of panther. Cheers yvan On 20/08/2004, at 10:32, Nasir Zubair wrote: > Hi all, > > I have to port a website onto a Mac powerbook, OS X panther. Client is > going on vacation and wants to take his database with him in order to > work on it without having to worry about internet connection. Since the > site is already running on LAMP. I figured it would be easier to > install php/mysql/apache on his notebook, than having to port it to > something else. > > Is there any package like XAMPP? A pakcage that would install > apache/mysql/php for OS X. If not, I'd appreciate some guides/tutorials > regarding this. > > Thanks, > Nasir > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org From jcrawford at codebowl.com Thu Aug 19 21:40:43 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 21:40:43 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP resources References: <20040819144108.1DB09A8633@virtu.nyphp.org> Message-ID: <001901c48657$080f3e70$524a4044@codebowl> what is an RSS Sidebar? Joe Crawford Jr. From webmaster at localnotion.com Thu Aug 19 21:56:44 2004 From: webmaster at localnotion.com (Matthew Terenzio) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 21:56:44 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP resources In-Reply-To: <001901c48657$080f3e70$524a4044@codebowl> References: <20040819144108.1DB09A8633@virtu.nyphp.org> <001901c48657$080f3e70$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <3035D469-F24C-11D8-8CA0-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> On Aug 19, 2004, at 9:40 PM, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > what is an RSS Sidebar? I'm guessing the browser has an RSS reader built in. > > Joe Crawford Jr. > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org From jcrawford at codebowl.com Thu Aug 19 22:55:05 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 22:55:05 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP resources References: <20040819144108.1DB09A8633@virtu.nyphp.org><001901c48657$080f3e70$524a4044@codebowl> <3035D469-F24C-11D8-8CA0-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> Message-ID: <000b01c48661$19045300$524a4044@codebowl> ohh what browser is this? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Terenzio" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP resources > > On Aug 19, 2004, at 9:40 PM, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > > > what is an RSS Sidebar? > I'm guessing the browser has an RSS reader built in. > > > > Joe Crawford Jr. > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Talk > > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Thu Aug 19 23:11:22 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 23:11:22 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP resources In-Reply-To: <000b01c48661$19045300$524a4044@codebowl> References: <20040819144108.1DB09A8633@virtu.nyphp.org><001901c48657$080f3e70$524a4044@codebowl> <3035D469-F24C-11D8-8CA0-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> <000b01c48661$19045300$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <41256BDA.3080501@spacemonkeylabs.com> Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > ohh what browser is this? > Holy XML Parser, Batman! These people never heard of FireFox!!! http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox Get that, and then get this: http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=77&vid=531&category= Of course, as a web developer you gotta have this too: http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=60&vid=63&category=Developer%20Tools It will then look like this when done: http://www.spacemonkeylabs.com/images/stories/screenshots/screenshot.png -- Mitch From jcrawford at codebowl.com Thu Aug 19 23:39:29 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 23:39:29 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP resources References: <20040819144108.1DB09A8633@virtu.nyphp.org><001901c48657$080f3e70$524a4044@codebowl> <3035D469-F24C-11D8-8CA0-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com><000b01c48661$19045300$524a4044@codebowl> <41256BDA.3080501@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: <000901c48667$4d79adf0$524a4044@codebowl> i have and use firefox ;) but i hadnt a clue about this, thanks Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitch Pirtle" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:11 PM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP resources > Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > > > ohh what browser is this? > > > > Holy XML Parser, Batman! These people never heard of FireFox!!! > > http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox > > Get that, and then get this: > > > http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=77&vid=531&category= > > Of course, as a web developer you gotta have this too: > > > http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=60&vid=63&category=Developer%20Tools > > > It will then look like this when done: > > http://www.spacemonkeylabs.com/images/stories/screenshots/screenshot.png > > -- Mitch > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Thu Aug 19 23:38:44 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 23:38:44 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP resources In-Reply-To: <000901c48667$4d79adf0$524a4044@codebowl> References: <20040819144108.1DB09A8633@virtu.nyphp.org><001901c48657$080f3e70$524a4044@codebowl> <3035D469-F24C-11D8-8CA0-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com><000b01c48661$19045300$524a4044@codebowl> <41256BDA.3080501@spacemonkeylabs.com> <000901c48667$4d79adf0$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <41257244.1030700@spacemonkeylabs.com> Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: >i have and use firefox ;) > >but i hadnt a clue about this, thanks > No problem, it's easy to miss with all those extensions :) My faves are Web Developer, AdBlock, Sage and (RSS Sidebar). Web Developer is awesome for checking and validating your output (and proposed layout changes!); and also the Speed Report is pretty keen for a quick look at the size of your layouts and content. Neat how they also indicate whether the server is using gzip compression or not - saved my bacon a couple of times ;) Oh, and if you are interested I have some killer default filters for AdBlock, and have very little problems with the extension. -- Mitch From Cbielanski at inta.org Fri Aug 20 10:51:02 2004 From: Cbielanski at inta.org (Chris Bielanski) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:51:02 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP resources Message-ID: I've been using WDToolbar since it landed, I just wish he would add filtering for clearing of cache and cookies. I wouldn't mind remaining logged in at some of my forums :) Thanks, Chris Bielanski Web Programmer, International Trademark Association, 1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor New York, NY 10036 +1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence > -----Original Message----- > From: Mitch Pirtle [mailto:mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:39 PM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP resources > > > Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > > >i have and use firefox ;) > > > >but i hadnt a clue about this, thanks > > > > No problem, it's easy to miss with all those extensions :) > > My faves are Web Developer, AdBlock, Sage and (RSS Sidebar). Web > Developer is awesome for checking and validating your output (and > proposed layout changes!); and also the Speed Report is > pretty keen for > a quick look at the size of your layouts and content. Neat how they > also indicate whether the server is using gzip compression or not - > saved my bacon a couple of times ;) > > Oh, and if you are interested I have some killer default filters for > AdBlock, and have very little problems with the extension. > > -- Mitch > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From ajai at bitblit.net Fri Aug 20 11:40:49 2004 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 11:40:49 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP resources In-Reply-To: <41256BDA.3080501@spacemonkeylabs.com> References: <20040819144108.1DB09A8633@virtu.nyphp.org><001901c48657$080f3e70$524a4044@codebowl> <3035D469-F24C-11D8-8CA0-0003938BDF32@localnotion.com> <000b01c48661$19045300$524a4044@codebowl> <41256BDA.3080501@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: <41261B81.60906@bitblit.net> Mitch Pirtle wrote: > Get that, and then get this: > > > http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=77&vid=531&category= NewsMonster is pretty darn good too: http://www.newsmonster.org -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer From sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com Fri Aug 20 12:54:57 2004 From: sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 12:54:57 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] AMP for Mac OS X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29327-59208@sneakemail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com Fri Aug 20 14:32:53 2004 From: sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:32:53 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] allow_url_fopen In-Reply-To: References: <000001c48611$e84330a0$e98d3818@oberon1> Message-ID: <30059-43397@sneakemail.com> That's funny. Pear is hosted on Pair, no? David Mintz dmintz-at-davidmintz.org |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: >On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, George Schlossnagle wrote: > > >>>Ouput: >>> >>>Current value: disabled ....now: enabled >>> >>>Followed by our phpinfo which says allow_url_fopen: master value off, >>>local value on. (PHP 4.3.4 running as an Apache 1.3.29 module) >>> >>> >>Your clients are running a version 4 point releases and nearly a year >>old. You should upgrade, for the sake of this security issue as well >>as others. >> >>George >> >>p.s. the issue you describe was fixed in 4.3.5, over half a year ago. >> >> > > >Oh my. Thanks for the enlightenment. I think these guys (pair Networks) >are running the version they're running for reasons of their own other >than laziness/cluelessness, but who knows. > >Their customer newsletter recently said, hey, we are now setting >allow_url_fopen = off in our php.ini (because of all the carelessly >written stuff that had been hacked on their servers), so if you need it, >you better ini_set() it yourself. > >I guess whenever they do upgrade, and if they do keep that setting, I can >either run in CGI mode and write my own damn php.ini, or use cURL. Or... >what would you suggest, if you need to go out and fetch a web page >somewhere once in a while? > >Oops, reading again I see: "you should upgrade." Maybe I'll try compiling >my own 4.3.8 and using CGI mode. > > >--- >David Mintz >http://davidmintz.org/ > > "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > -- CONSERVATIVE, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.Ambrose Bierce From george at omniti.com Fri Aug 20 14:47:09 2004 From: george at omniti.com (George Schlossnagle) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:47:09 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] allow_url_fopen In-Reply-To: <30059-43397@sneakemail.com> References: <000001c48611$e84330a0$e98d3818@oberon1> <30059-43397@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <5737BA84-F2D9-11D8-853D-000D93359332@omniti.com> > David Mintz dmintz-at-davidmintz.org |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: > >> On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, George Schlossnagle wrote: >> >>>> Ouput: >>>> >>>> Current value: disabled ....now: enabled >>>> >>>> Followed by our phpinfo which says allow_url_fopen: master value >>>> off, >>>> local value on. (PHP 4.3.4 running as an Apache 1.3.29 module) >>>> >>> Your clients are running a version 4 point releases and nearly a year >>> old. You should upgrade, for the sake of this security issue as well >>> as others. >>> >>> George >>> >>> p.s. the issue you describe was fixed in 4.3.5, over half a year ago. >>> >> >> Their customer newsletter recently said, hey, we are now setting >> allow_url_fopen = off in our php.ini (because of all the carelessly >> written stuff that had been hacked on their servers), so if you need >> it, >> you better ini_set() it yourself. allow_url_fopen is a pretty big security issue - it really heightens your exposure to cross-site scripting attacks. >> I guess whenever they do upgrade, and if they do keep that setting, I >> can >> either run in CGI mode and write my own damn php.ini, or use cURL. >> Or... >> what would you suggest, if you need to go out and fetch a web page >> somewhere once in a while? I'd use cUrl. Some people like the PEAR HTTP classes for this as well. I think the important thing is that you actually have to consciously open a url, which I think is a good thing. >> Oops, reading again I see: "you should upgrade." Maybe I'll try >> compiling >> my own 4.3.8 and using CGI mode. That would work, You should encourage the Pair folks to upgrade as well. 4.3.4 is old now. George From joel at tagword.com Fri Aug 20 15:05:27 2004 From: joel at tagword.com (Joel De Gan) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 19:05:27 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? - followup In-Reply-To: <1092854020.7611.43.camel@bezel> References: <1092854020.7611.43.camel@bezel> Message-ID: <1093028727.7607.146.camel@bezel> Thanks to those of you who volunteered. The xml/atom/rss feeds are up. see: http://historyagent.com/joeldg/ Also, the other question I had about other services that are "not" browsercam (the site seems to crash all the time which is reason enough not to use it..) but do the same thing.. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks -joeldg On Wed, 2004-08-18 at 18:33, Joel De Gan wrote: > Hi all: > I am building a free service, project at http://historyagent.com/ > It is primarily geared for the Firefox browser but obviously would like > it work in all browsers. > > Couple questions: > > I am currently working with a browsercam free account to do the > compatibility issues. Anyone have any experience with other browser > tester sites? > > I know this is a common issue.. > > Also will be adding in rdf/rss/atom/js feeds per user today and was > wondering if some people wanted to be a lab rats? > > Thanks -- joeldg - developer, Intercosmos media group. http://lucifer.intercosmos.net From jonbaer at jonbaer.net Fri Aug 20 15:34:41 2004 From: jonbaer at jonbaer.net (Jon Baer) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:34:41 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? - followup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040820193327.4CE54A85F3@virtu.nyphp.org> Ok Im not sure about the browser cam thing but ... Is there anyway to rank/sort the views in the history?, example page viewed 20x's @ the top vs. stuff just viewed once @ the bottom. I think that's more like a feature request .. :-) - Jon -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Joel De Gan Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 3:05 PM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: [nycphp-talk] new project, beta testers? - followup Thanks to those of you who volunteered. The xml/atom/rss feeds are up. see: http://historyagent.com/joeldg/ Also, the other question I had about other services that are "not" browsercam (the site seems to crash all the time which is reason enough not to use it..) but do the same thing.. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks -joeldg On Wed, 2004-08-18 at 18:33, Joel De Gan wrote: > Hi all: > I am building a free service, project at http://historyagent.com/ It > is primarily geared for the Firefox browser but obviously would like > it work in all browsers. > > Couple questions: > > I am currently working with a browsercam free account to do the > compatibility issues. Anyone have any experience with other browser > tester sites? > > I know this is a common issue.. > > Also will be adding in rdf/rss/atom/js feeds per user today and was > wondering if some people wanted to be a lab rats? > > Thanks -- joeldg - developer, Intercosmos media group. http://lucifer.intercosmos.net _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu Fri Aug 20 17:59:38 2004 From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:59:38 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] job: developers and designers needed Message-ID: <4126744A.80903@mlug.missouri.edu> We're a Las Vegas based web services company specializing in business web sites and search engine optimization. We need some people with web development and web design skills. Both developers and designers will need to know, or be able to learn, basic optimization skills and incorporate those into any work they do for us. For the time being we'll consider telecomutting. We'd eventually like someone that lives in, or could move to, Las Vegas. Our own web site is developed in PHP and Python with MySQL on Linux. We would like to find people that are also well versed in one or more other server-side technologies such as ASP, ColdFusion, Miva, and JSP as we often are called upon to make changes to our client's websites and we have no control over what technology they use. You must be able to work hands on or communicate required changes to our client's webmasters. Support will be as much of your job as development is. We're also interested in designers. Flash, CSS, JavaScript, SVG, etc. We like cross-platform solutions that look good, are easy to use, and are optimization friendly. -- Michael http://kavlon.org From jcrawford at codebowl.com Fri Aug 20 18:19:09 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 18:19:09 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] job: developers and designers needed References: <4126744A.80903@mlug.missouri.edu> Message-ID: <002f01c48703$bc2d8d10$524a4044@codebowl> What is needed for consideration for a php programming job? Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 5:59 PM Subject: [nycphp-talk] job: developers and designers needed > We're a Las Vegas based web services company specializing in business > web sites and search engine optimization. We need some people with web > development and web design skills. Both developers and designers will > need to know, or be able to learn, basic optimization skills and > incorporate those into any work they do for us. For the time being we'll > consider telecomutting. We'd eventually like someone that lives in, or > could move to, Las Vegas. > > Our own web site is developed in PHP and Python with MySQL on Linux. We > would like to find people that are also well versed in one or more other > server-side technologies such as ASP, ColdFusion, Miva, and JSP as we > often are called upon to make changes to our client's websites and we > have no control over what technology they use. You must be able to work > hands on or communicate required changes to our client's webmasters. > Support will be as much of your job as development is. > > We're also interested in designers. Flash, CSS, JavaScript, SVG, etc. We > like cross-platform solutions that look good, are easy to use, and are > optimization friendly. > > -- > Michael > http://kavlon.org > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From hans.kaspersetz at nyphp.org Fri Aug 20 21:38:46 2004 From: hans.kaspersetz at nyphp.org (Hans C. Kaspersetz) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:38:46 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] job: developers and designers needed In-Reply-To: <4126744A.80903@mlug.missouri.edu> References: <4126744A.80903@mlug.missouri.edu> Message-ID: <4126A7A6.9050000@nyphp.org> Michael, We have a job board where posts of this nature should be posted, http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs. As well, we have a policy concerning commercial posts. The following is taken directly from NY PHP's charter: ---------------------------------------- Appropriate Use of Mailing Lists The mailing lists of New York PHP may not be used to: 1. promote any commercial activities unless that posting has received prior board approval, in which case the posting shall include the words "This posting has been approved by the Board of New York PHP"; 2. suggest that any activity, code base, or writing has been endorsed by or created by or supported by New York PHP if that is not the case. The Board of New York PHP shall determine whether a violation of appropriate use has occurred, and if it has, the President shall issue a warning notice in writing to the violator. Anyone who again violates appropriate use after having been already issued a warning notice shall be excluded from any and all participation in New York PHP. ---------------------------------------------- Your post has not been reviewed or approved by the Board at NYPHP. Please abide by the policies and procedures set fourth in the charter. The NY PHP charter can be reviewed at: http://www.nyphp.org/content/about/charter.php. Thank you, Hans Kaspersetz AVP Operations & New Project Coordinator Michael wrote: > We're a Las Vegas based web services company specializing in business > web sites and search engine optimization. We need some people with web > development and web design skills. Both developers and designers will > need to know, or be able to learn, basic optimization skills and > incorporate those into any work they do for us. For the time being > we'll consider telecomutting. We'd eventually like someone that lives > in, or could move to, Las Vegas. > > Our own web site is developed in PHP and Python with MySQL on Linux. > We would like to find people that are also well versed in one or more > other server-side technologies such as ASP, ColdFusion, Miva, and JSP > as we often are called upon to make changes to our client's websites > and we have no control over what technology they use. You must be able > to work hands on or communicate required changes to our client's > webmasters. Support will be as much of your job as development is. > > We're also interested in designers. Flash, CSS, JavaScript, SVG, etc. > We like cross-platform solutions that look good, are easy to use, and > are optimization friendly. > From shiflett at php.net Sat Aug 21 00:13:35 2004 From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:13:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] allow_url_fopen In-Reply-To: <5737BA84-F2D9-11D8-853D-000D93359332@omniti.com> Message-ID: <20040821041335.57923.qmail@web52802.mail.yahoo.com> --- George Schlossnagle wrote: > allow_url_fopen is a pretty big security issue - it really heightens > your exposure to cross-site scripting attacks. I agree with the first point, but I don't follow the second one. Are you considering the accidental inclusion of foreign source code to be a cross-site scripting attack, or is there something I'm missing? Chris ===== Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ PHP Security - O'Reilly Coming Fall 2004 HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams http://httphandbook.org/ PHP Community Site http://phpcommunity.org/ From shiflett at php.net Sat Aug 21 00:18:22 2004 From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:18:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] job: developers and designers needed In-Reply-To: <4126A7A6.9050000@nyphp.org> Message-ID: <20040821041823.58675.qmail@web52802.mail.yahoo.com> > As well, we have a policy concerning commercial posts. The > following is taken directly from NY PHP's charter: This isn't aimed directly at anyone in particular (which is why I've removed the attribution), but I think we have officially gotten out of hand about this stuff. We don't need to be talking about charters and policies when someone is looking to hire a PHP developer and uses the wrong list. Chris ===== Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ PHP Security - O'Reilly Coming Fall 2004 HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams http://httphandbook.org/ PHP Community Site http://phpcommunity.org/ From lists at ny-tech.net Sat Aug 21 03:35:42 2004 From: lists at ny-tech.net (Nasir Zubair) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 03:35:42 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] AMP for Mac OS X Message-ID: Thank John, yvan and inforequest, links provided were helpful. I'm meeting with the client on monday to actually do this stuff. Now, this might be going a little off topic, but can anyone tell me the following on OS X: - How to drop to shell or open one within the GUI. - Is there a default 'root' login. I'm not sure if my client know that much about it. He's comfy with point and click stuff :-) > From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu Sat Aug 21 08:24:21 2004 From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 05:24:21 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] job: developers and designers needed In-Reply-To: <20040821041823.58675.qmail@web52802.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040821041823.58675.qmail@web52802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41273EF5.1030002@mlug.missouri.edu> >>As well, we have a policy concerning commercial posts. The >>following is taken directly from NY PHP's charter: >> >> > >This isn't aimed directly at anyone in particular (which is why I've >removed the attribution), but I think we have officially gotten out of >hand about this stuff. We don't need to be talking about charters and >policies when someone is looking to hire a PHP developer and uses the >wrong list. > I would agree with you. I apologize for posting anything unwanted to the list but it's really quite unreasonable to expect people to remember charters for every single list they belong to. My experience has always been that many people appreciate on topic job postings so of course I didn't imagine it'd cause a problem by submitting such a posting. I'll try to remember not to submit such postings here in the future. -- Michael http://kavlon.org From tgales at tgaconnect.com Sat Aug 21 10:45:49 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 10:45:49 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] job: developers and designers needed In-Reply-To: <20040821041823.58675.qmail@web52802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000b01c4878d$8d0c2b60$e98d3818@oberon1> Chris Shiflett writes: > ... We don't need > to be talking about charters and policies when someone is > looking to hire a PHP developer and uses the wrong list. > When I have posted something objectionable to various lists in the past (typically inadvertently posting in HTML to a list that prefers plain text), I would sometimes receive an off-list note from a list member explaining to me my error. Nobody on the list wanted to be needlessly reminded of something they already knew -- that they would rather have plain text posts. T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com Sat Aug 21 11:57:34 2004 From: sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 11:57:34 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] job: developers and designers needed In-Reply-To: <000b01c4878d$8d0c2b60$e98d3818@oberon1> References: <000b01c4878d$8d0c2b60$e98d3818@oberon1> Message-ID: <11792-17721@sneakemail.com> Tim Gales tgales-at-tgaconnect.com |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: >Chris Shiflett writes: > > >>... We don't need >>to be talking about charters and policies when someone is >>looking to hire a PHP developer and uses the wrong list. >> >> >> > >When I have posted something objectionable >to various lists in the past (typically >inadvertently posting in HTML to a list >that prefers plain text), I would sometimes >receive an off-list note from a list member >explaining to me my error. > >Nobody on the list wanted to be needlessly >reminded of something they already knew -- >that they would rather have plain text posts. > >T. Gales & Associates >'Helping People Connect with Technology' > >http://www.tgaconnect.com > For what it's worth, I agree off-list mod is in general a more sensitive approach to maintaining order, and helps keeps S/N high. However, given that this is a recent rule and not well known, I think Hans did the right thing reminding the list that commercial posts need to be approved. In this case I think Hans message was "signal" -- admittedly I can't say the same about *this follow up of mine*, soooooooo.... Now that the list has seen a commercial post that didn't have a "approved by the board" snippet, a prompt response from a NYPHP'er that such posts should be avoided, and a pretty consistent expressed desire by list members to follow rules, maintain some order and keep s/n high, let's move further discussion *about* the rules to the organizational/development/operational lists? -=john From thegeek at thecolorgeek.com Sat Aug 21 12:01:18 2004 From: thegeek at thecolorgeek.com (The Geek) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 12:01:18 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] AMP for Mac OS X In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <56961D56-F38B-11D8-B42A-003065C1CBE0@thecolorgeek.com> You can try here a very nice install package for OSX http://www.serverlogistics.com/software.php To access the shell you can use the terminal app found /application/utilities/terminal. There is no default login you will need the users admin that was created during OS install to sudo. Check the user privileges in the system preferences accounts menu. From the terminal you can just sudo once that is all configured properly. Not much different from linux. Paul Guba On Saturday, August 21, 2004, at 03:35 AM, Nasir Zubair wrote: > Thank John, yvan and inforequest, links provided were helpful. I'm > meeting with the client on monday to actually do this stuff. > > Now, this might be going a little off topic, but can anyone tell me the > following on OS X: > > - How to drop to shell or open one within the GUI. > - Is there a default 'root' login. I'm not sure if my client know that > much about it. He's comfy with point and click stuff :-) > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From jeffknight at mac.com Sat Aug 21 12:04:49 2004 From: jeffknight at mac.com (Jeff Knight) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 12:04:49 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] AMP for Mac OS X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Try the Lower East Side Mac UNIX Users Group http://lesmuug.org/ or http://www.macosxhints.com/ the answers to your questions are yes, but beyond the scope of this list. Especially try a search for "enable root" at Mac OS X Hints. -- Actually, try typing "enable root" into the Mac Help window. Also the shell is provided by a program called "Terminal" in the /Applications/Utilities folder. On Aug 21, 2004, at 3:35 AM, Nasir Zubair wrote: > Thank John, yvan and inforequest, links provided were helpful. I'm > meeting with the client on monday to actually do this stuff. > > Now, this might be going a little off topic, but can anyone tell me the > following on OS X: > > - How to drop to shell or open one within the GUI. > - Is there a default 'root' login. I'm not sure if my client know that > much about it. He's comfy with point and click stuff :-) > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org From shiflett at php.net Sat Aug 21 12:52:49 2004 From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 09:52:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] job: developers and designers needed In-Reply-To: <11792-17721@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <20040821165249.63987.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> --- inforequest wrote: > For what it's worth, I agree off-list mod is in general a more > sensitive approach to maintaining order, and helps keeps S/N high. > However, given that this is a recent rule and not well known, I think > **** did the right thing reminding the list that commercial posts > need to be approved. The fact that it is a recent rule doesn't excuse the misapplication of it. Letting someone know that we have a jobs list is great, and that's all that needs to be said. Even PHP-General allows job postings, and it's the largest PHP mailing list in the world. > Now that the list has seen a commercial post that didn't have a > "approved by the board" snippet Did you read the email? Seriously, I can't imagine that the "commercial" bit in the charter was intended to address some growing problem with people not knowing we have a separate jobs list. If this were an email from someone using the list as an advertising platform, then I would agree that it is a misuse of the list, and I also think the poster would know that intuitively. Anyway, sorry for being the bad guy, but I felt something needed to be said. I perceived a bit of a "holier than thou" attitude being projected toward someone using us to locate PHP talent, and I don't want to be a part of that. I *want* people to use NYPHP's resources to find PHP talent, and I appreciate those who do. It makes our group stronger and more valuable to the members and to the community. Chris ===== Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ PHP Security - O'Reilly Coming Fall 2004 HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams http://httphandbook.org/ PHP Community Site http://phpcommunity.org/ From hans.kaspersetz at nyphp.org Sat Aug 21 13:32:25 2004 From: hans.kaspersetz at nyphp.org (Hans C. Kaspersetz) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 13:32:25 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] job: developers and designers needed In-Reply-To: <20040821165249.63987.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040821165249.63987.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41278729.6010401@nyphp.org> I would like to follow-up with my post last night and put this to rest. My post last night was insensitive. It was late and I did not take the time to make my response diplomatic. I purely stated what the guidelines are and where the community can go to review them. My intention was to let the user know there is another list for this purpose and that there are guidelines that prompted my response. I try and make it a habit not to offer guidance unless I can offer a reference to back it up. I also try and not operate on pure opinion when offering that guidance. As John stated, the guidelines I refereed to are relatively new. Normally, an off list mod is the way to go but I responded on list to raise the awareness of the guidelines. I did not state that he would be prohibited from posting after review. I just stated that posts that are commercial in nature should be reviewed by the board. I am not trying to come off "holier than thou"; my intention was to raise awareness on two fronts, that's it. I agree with Chris that being an accessible resource does make the community stronger. In the same breath, it is the community member?s social responsibility to be aware of the community's guidelines. I hope we can close this discussion and move on. Please accept my apology for my lack of sensitivity. I do not intend to drive anyone away. Respectfully, Hans K Chris Shiflett wrote: >--- inforequest wrote: > > >>For what it's worth, I agree off-list mod is in general a more >>sensitive approach to maintaining order, and helps keeps S/N high. >>However, given that this is a recent rule and not well known, I think >>**** did the right thing reminding the list that commercial posts >>need to be approved. >> >> > >The fact that it is a recent rule doesn't excuse the misapplication of it. >Letting someone know that we have a jobs list is great, and that's all >that needs to be said. > >Even PHP-General allows job postings, and it's the largest PHP mailing >list in the world. > > > >>Now that the list has seen a commercial post that didn't have a >>"approved by the board" snippet >> >> > >Did you read the email? Seriously, I can't imagine that the "commercial" >bit in the charter was intended to address some growing problem with >people not knowing we have a separate jobs list. If this were an email >from someone using the list as an advertising platform, then I would agree >that it is a misuse of the list, and I also think the poster would know >that intuitively. > >Anyway, sorry for being the bad guy, but I felt something needed to be >said. I perceived a bit of a "holier than thou" attitude being projected >toward someone using us to locate PHP talent, and I don't want to be a >part of that. I *want* people to use NYPHP's resources to find PHP talent, >and I appreciate those who do. It makes our group stronger and more >valuable to the members and to the community. > >Chris > >===== >Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ > >PHP Security - O'Reilly > Coming Fall 2004 >HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams > http://httphandbook.org/ >PHP Community Site > http://phpcommunity.org/ >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > From sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com Sat Aug 21 14:40:43 2004 From: sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 14:40:43 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] job: developers and designers needed In-Reply-To: <41278729.6010401@nyphp.org> References: <20040821165249.63987.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> <41278729.6010401@nyphp.org> Message-ID: <24422-51786@sneakemail.com> Chris Shiflett wrote: >> ...Did you read the email? Seriously, I can't imagine that the >> "commercial" >> bit in the charter was intended to address some growing problem with >> people not knowing we have a separate jobs list. If this were an email >> from someone using the list as an advertising platform, then I would >> agree >> that it is a misuse of the list, and I also think the poster would know >> that intuitively. >> >> Anyway, sorry for being the bad guy, but I felt something needed to be >> said. I perceived a bit of a "holier than thou" attitude being projected >> toward someone using us to locate PHP talent, and I don't want to be a >> part of that. I *want* people to use NYPHP's resources to find PHP >> talent, >> and I appreciate those who do. It makes our group stronger and more >> valuable to the members and to the community. >> >> Chris >> >> ===== >> Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ >> >> PHP Security - O'Reilly >> Coming Fall 2004 >> HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams >> http://httphandbook.org/ >> PHP Community Site >> http://phpcommunity.org/ > > ...Letting someone know that we have a jobs list is great, and that's all Well, I acknowledge that Chris and I tend to disagree on commercialism of free resources like this talk list. Back in the late eighties when newsgroups first started getting spammed by people with 10 line signatures, the general agreement was that 3 lines is enough to sign your post. Anything more is spam. Even though the Internet is no longer non-commercial, I still agree with that sentiment. How many lines of hyperlinks to external resources do we really need on every post to bleed the signal to noise ratio of the list? Do we need board approval to spam this list in the sig? I admit I am on the outer edge, but I also don't write off commercial posts as "job opportunities". Case in point is this one. A job opportunity post is "I have PHP jobs available. Requirements are A,B, and C. Click here for more....." A commercial post is "My company does X and Y, is a leader in the field, is growing and very successful, etc etc etc and has jobs ".... Most people in the marketing business know the value of such a post with external links, placed on a quality PHP-oriented webpage or list, for PR and marketing purposes (in addition to back-linking and search engine relevance). Internet marketing 101 espouses the importance of such PR. Wiki-spam, guestbook spam, blog comment spam.... it's all trying to do the same thing. My apologies to Michael who posted the original job *advertisement*. I never doubted his intentions, but he has sparked the discussion so may feel a bit persecuted. He's also a self-proclaimed SEO person, so I expect he understands very well the value of such exposure. Someone has to protect resources that are intended to be free, and intended to be high signal to noise, and NOT intended to be marketing vehicles for commercial enterprises (including book authors). I suggest it get done through a sensitive board of directors and off-line mods, like Hans K was doing voluntarily with his free time between 3 and 3:30 am or whatever. Do we sell less PHP books? yeah, probably. Do we risk losing some opportunity to promote PHP via such spam? yeah... but that's the job of the Board of Directors, isn't it? I bet NYPHP's Board of Directors will do a wonderful job of approving what is good and limiting what is questionable, if they are granted that opportunity. I doubt anyone is more qualified than they are. They provide a jobs list, and apparently would tolerate a jobs post that didn't appear to take advantage of the commercial potential of the list. Now by atempting to prevent over commercialization and spamming of the list do we lose the participants who make NTPHP's lists such a valuable resource? I guess that is up to those people, who have to decide for themselves if participation in the list, sans any direct commercial benefit, is still worthwhile to them. I couldn't tell you that one. I highlight, however, that we also risk losing the same people when the list becomes low signal to noise, or overly spammed. In my experience the lurking experts are at least as valuable as the high-profile ones, but sadly they are also the first to leave when the list gets too noisy. Finally, I am just a participant in NYPHP and this list, like everybody else. I have no agenda, and don't represent the board of NYPHP or anything like that. So while I know I am not wrong in my understanding of how people commercialize these resources, I may be wrong about how NYPHP desires to handle these issues. Like most of you, I have simply contributed my piece. -=john andrews From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Sat Aug 21 17:46:58 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 17:46:58 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] sf 262 Message-ID: <20040821214658.GA5090@panix.com> Moodle 'post.php' Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10884 PluggedOut Blog Blog_Exec.PHP Cross-Site Scripting Vulnerabi... http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10885 YaPiG Remote Server-Side Script Execution Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10891 PHPBB Fetch All Common Script SQL Injection Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10893 PluggedOut Blog Calendar Module Cross-Site Scripting Vulnera... http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10894 PHPGroupWare Plaintext Cookie Authentication Credentials Inf... http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10895 Moodle Unspecified Text Strings Vulnerability http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/10919 -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu Sat Aug 21 21:59:29 2004 From: mogmios at mlug.missouri.edu (Michael) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 18:59:29 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] job: developers and designers needed In-Reply-To: <24422-51786@sneakemail.com> References: <20040821165249.63987.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> <41278729.6010401@nyphp.org> <24422-51786@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <4127FE01.7060103@mlug.missouri.edu> > My apologies to Michael who posted the original job *advertisement*. I > never doubted his intentions, but he has sparked the discussion so may > feel a bit persecuted. He's also a self-proclaimed SEO person, so I > expect he understands very well the value of such exposure. I do understand that value. I also must point out though that I did not include a url at all to the business. I didn't even use my business email address. The only url I posted was in my usual sig and goes to my own personal website. > Someone has to protect resources that are intended to be free, and > intended to be high signal to noise, and NOT intended to be marketing > vehicles for commercial enterprises (including book authors). FYI, the company I work for doesn't spam mailing lists, wikis, or any of those bad practices you mentioned. I understand your concern about such abuse but I hardly think posting a job advert such as I did would fall into that category. We do take advantage of such resources to create sponsorship links to our clients but we do it in what I feel is the legit way - we either create the resource ourselves and put the links where appropiate or we make deals with the websites involved to pay them a sponsorship fee to include our text links on their pages. If it was my intention to get links from your site that is the method I would use. Again, I apologize for any trouble my job posting made. Someone mentioned a list for non-technical discussion on these topics. What is the address for that list? Thanks. -- Michael http://kavlon.org From jlacey at att.net Sat Aug 21 22:11:01 2004 From: jlacey at att.net (John Lacey) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 20:11:01 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] job: developers and designers needed In-Reply-To: <4127FE01.7060103@mlug.missouri.edu> References: <20040821165249.63987.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> <41278729.6010401@nyphp.org> <24422-51786@sneakemail.com> <4127FE01.7060103@mlug.missouri.edu> Message-ID: <412800B5.8090709@att.net> Michael wrote: > Someone mentioned a list for non-technical discussion on these topics. > What is the address for that list? Thanks. > I assume the jobs list is what you mean--here's the lists: http://www.nyphp.org/content/mailinglist/mlist.php John From php at haberco.com Sun Aug 22 11:25:16 2004 From: php at haberco.com (Eddie Haber) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 11:25:16 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PhpDocumentor vs. PHPDoc In-Reply-To: <412800B5.8090709@att.net> Message-ID: I'm beginning a large php project and want to use one of the big documenting coding standards. Any thoughts on the documentation software would be much appreciated. phpDocumentor looks more popularly used and accepted but PHPDoc claims to be a port of JAVADoc which is the standard in the JAVA world. Thanks in advance, Eddie From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Sun Aug 22 12:00:31 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 12:00:31 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PhpDocumentor vs. PHPDoc In-Reply-To: References: <412800B5.8090709@att.net> Message-ID: <20040822160031.GA26701@panix.com> Hey Eddie: PHPDoc buggy and no longer being developed. phpDocumentor is under active development and has tremendous features beyond PHPDoc. Forget the argument about Javadoc. Since PHPDoc is a port of Javadoc and phpDocumentor is a port of PHPDoc, phpDocumentor is a port of Javadoc. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From jcrawford at codebowl.com Sun Aug 22 12:16:25 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 12:16:25 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PhpDocumentor vs. PHPDoc References: <412800B5.8090709@att.net> <20040822160031.GA26701@panix.com> Message-ID: <001801c48863$6f049e50$524a4044@codebowl> i never understood such documentation tools, if i work on any large projects i will write my docs manually hehe :) Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Convissor" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] PhpDocumentor vs. PHPDoc > Hey Eddie: > > PHPDoc buggy and no longer being developed. phpDocumentor is under > active development and has tremendous features beyond PHPDoc. > > Forget the argument about Javadoc. Since PHPDoc is a port of Javadoc > and phpDocumentor is a port of PHPDoc, phpDocumentor is a port of > Javadoc. > > --Dan > > -- > T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y > data intensive web and database programming > http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ > 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From brian at vermonster.com Sun Aug 22 18:38:31 2004 From: brian at vermonster.com (Brian Kaney) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 18:38:31 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PhpDocumentor vs. PHPDoc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040822183831.85ap4ef08wcscow4@webmail.vermonster.com> I recommend phpDocumentor. I think it also follows the JavaDoc documentation standard? It features a templating layer with Smarty support as well as an option to output to PDF. It really is a great idea to internally document your code; this discipline will pay off down the road. Regards, Brian On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 Eddie Haber wrote: > I'm beginning a large php project and want to use one of the big documenting > coding standards. Any thoughts on the documentation software would be much > appreciated. > > phpDocumentor looks more popularly used and accepted but PHPDoc claims to be > a port of JAVADoc which is the standard in the JAVA world. > > Thanks in advance, > Eddie > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org -- Brian Kaney - brian at vermonster.com Vermonster LLC. - http://www.vermonster.com 312 Stuart St. 2nd Fl. Boston, MA 02116 US Direct: +1 617-960-3671 x3554 Mobile: +1 617-312-0826 From hans at nyphp.com Sun Aug 22 21:31:21 2004 From: hans at nyphp.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 18:31:21 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] FW: SHA-0 Broken, MD5 Rumored Broken Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8703BE727F@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> I suppose it was only a matter of time. Of course this *could* (although unlikely) have an effect on various session handling mechanisms, since they are typically MD5 hashes. An interesting project would be to see if two UNIX timestamps exist that produce the same MD5. H > > Looks like a MD5 collision HAS been found: > > http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/archives/000664.html > > In case anyone is still wondering whether the collision in MD5 is > real, here are the two files. > > $ cmp md5-1.bin md5-2.bin > md5-1.bin md5-2.bin differ: char 20, line 1 > $ md5 md5-1.bin md5-2.bin > MD5 (md5-1.bin) = a4c0d35c95a63a805915367dcfe6b751 > MD5 (md5-2.bin) = a4c0d35c95a63a805915367dcfe6b751 > > Note that as of now, there are no attacks that demonstrate that MD5 is > not preimage-resistant or 2nd-preimage-resistant. Perhaps more > importantly, it is also not clear (to me, at least), whether the > collisions that can be produced in MD5 are selective (i.e., the > attacker has some control over the colliding messages) or existential. > > Collision resistance was a design goal for MD5. It does appear that > there exists a method for finding collisions in significantly less > than 2^64 operations. Thus, MD5 should not be used in any new > cryptographic systems that require collision resistance, preimage > resistance, or 2nd preimage resistance. Existing systems should be > evaluated individually. Some might require emergency patching. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: md5.tar.gz Type: application/x-gzip Size: 341 bytes Desc: md5.tar.gz URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: ATT49750.txt URL: From shiflett at php.net Sun Aug 22 22:29:41 2004 From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 19:29:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] FW: SHA-0 Broken, MD5 Rumored Broken In-Reply-To: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8703BE727F@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> Message-ID: <20040823022941.55476.qmail@web52807.mail.yahoo.com> --- Hans Zaunere wrote: > An interesting project would be to see if two UNIX timestamps exist that > produce the same MD5. Well, are you considering a UNIX timestamp to be any positive integer? :-) If so, there are definitely collisions somewhere, because there are more inputs than possible outputs. I've always heard the top crypto guys saying that MD5 was weaker than people thought; I guess they were right. Still, I wouldn't mind seeing one of these experts comment on whether it is dangerous to be using MD5 for passwords and such. Chris ===== Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ PHP Security - O'Reilly Coming Fall 2004 HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams http://httphandbook.org/ PHP Community Site http://phpcommunity.org/ From jonbaer at jonbaer.net Sun Aug 22 22:46:19 2004 From: jonbaer at jonbaer.net (Jon Baer) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 22:46:19 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] FW: SHA-0 Broken, MD5 Rumored Broken In-Reply-To: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8703BE727F@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> References: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8703BE727F@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> Message-ID: <41295A7B.40104@jonbaer.net> Any idea what the results were on SHA-1? Ive been trying to follow it @ http://www.iacr.org/conferences/crypto2004/rump.html but the webcasts still aren't available. - Jon Hans Zaunere wrote: >I suppose it was only a matter of time. > >Of course this *could* (although unlikely) have an effect on various >session handling mechanisms, since they are typically MD5 hashes. > >An interesting project would be to see if two UNIX timestamps exist that >produce the same MD5. > >H > From tgrza at grza.com Sun Aug 22 23:41:23 2004 From: tgrza at grza.com (Christopher Greeley) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:41:23 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Parsing Fun Message-ID: <20040823034128.61193A85F3@virtu.nyphp.org> I have been experimenting with parsing, as I am, and have always been (regardless of the programming language) in the dark on exactly how I should be going about parsing a text file. I have always kept it simple with easy explodes and the like, but it is getting to the point where I want to have a smarter script that doesn't need a finite list of things that must come in a certain order, etc. So, to that end, I have been experimenting with parsing some RSS streams (I am using the Reuters Sports Stream at http://www.microsite.reuters.com/rss/sportsNews as a guinea pig). I thought that for this end, sscanf would be really easy - I basically got the position of two tags I wanted to read in between with strpos, used substr to truncate the string, and then attempted to use sscanf to parse it into neat little variables. The problem I ran into is that sscanf doesn't really like white spaces, and it stops reading at that point. So, I dug around a little and found that someone had used %[^[]] to match everything - but at this point, sscanf stopped following my handy little outline. So, this is more of a request for some general direction in gaining some parsing skills - I am sure there are some out there with some weaker skills who could use the brush up as well. Thanks, Chris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com Mon Aug 23 01:11:53 2004 From: sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 01:11:53 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Parsing Fun In-Reply-To: <20040823034128.61193A85F3@virtu.nyphp.org> References: <20040823034128.61193A85F3@virtu.nyphp.org> Message-ID: <6426-09362@sneakemail.com> Christopher Greeley tgrza-at-grza.com |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: > I have been experimenting with parsing, as I am, and have always been > (regardless of the programming language) in the dark on exactly how I > should be going about parsing a text file. I have always kept it > simple with easy explodes and the like, but it is getting to the point > where I want to have a smarter script that doesn?t need a finite list > of things that must come in a certain order, etc. So, to that end, I > have been experimenting with parsing some RSS streams (I am using the > Reuters Sports Stream at > http://www.microsite.reuters.com/rss/sportsNews as a guinea pig). I > thought that for this end, sscanf would be really easy ? I basically > got the position of two tags I wanted to read in between with strpos, > used substr to truncate the string, and then attempted to use sscanf > to parse it into neat little variables. The problem I ran into is that > sscanf doesn?t really like white spaces, and it stops reading at that > point. So, I dug around a little and found that someone had used > %[^[]] to match everything ? but at this point, sscanf stopped > following my handy little outline. > > So, this is more of a request for some general direction in gaining > some parsing skills ? I am sure there are some out there with some > weaker skills who could use the brush up as well. > > Thanks, > > Chris > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > I always enjoy parsing (really). IMHO string manipulation is what made Professional Basic the success it was (PBDS, a loong time ago) and what sold me on PHP as a general-purpose scripting language and not just a way to access HTTP headers. Tokenizing is always fun (strtok). file_get_contents is very handy for use with PHP string functions, especially tokenizing. I never cared much for "exploding" or "splitting". Nothing like a deep, nested loops of str_stuff and preg_replace to get the brain cells working in the morning or in other words, to burn up your morning hours!) Seriously though, with PHP I have found it is wise to try and use the built in parsers when possible, such as parse_url, but *never underestimate the amazing power of the preg_replace_callback*. In your example, wouldn't preg_match(all) be a better choice than sscanf, so you can explicitly handle tabs and whitespace? That'd give you an array of all tagged content appearing in your file (in case there was more than the one you expected ;-) which you can further parse-n-store using str_"stuff" as you like? -=john andrews From george at omniti.com Mon Aug 23 08:47:51 2004 From: george at omniti.com (George Schlossnagle) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:47:51 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] FW: SHA-0 Broken, MD5 Rumored Broken In-Reply-To: <20040823022941.55476.qmail@web52807.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040823022941.55476.qmail@web52807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Aug 22, 2004, at 10:29 PM, Chris Shiflett wrote: > --- Hans Zaunere wrote: >> An interesting project would be to see if two UNIX timestamps exist >> that >> produce the same MD5. > > Well, are you considering a UNIX timestamp to be any positive integer? > :-) > If so, there are definitely collisions somewhere, because there are > more > inputs than possible outputs. > > I've always heard the top crypto guys saying that MD5 was weaker than > people thought; I guess they were right. Still, I wouldn't mind seeing > one > of these experts comment on whether it is dangerous to be using MD5 for > passwords and such. Of course the danger isn't in a collision - collisions exist by definition as part of a hashing system. The danger is in being able to generate a collision for an arbitrary input, as this would render the 'fingerprinting' aspect of the scheme useless. This isn't part of the result, but the general worry is that such a result will follow. George From stephen at musgrave.org Mon Aug 23 09:13:00 2004 From: stephen at musgrave.org (Stephen Musgrave) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 09:13:00 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] meeting tomorrow Message-ID: <2871BCE2-F506-11D8-A627-00039375F9C8@musgrave.org> I recall hearing that if you've RSVPed once before, you don't have to RSVP again. Is that so for this event? Thanks, Stephen From tgales at tgaconnect.com Mon Aug 23 09:32:32 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 09:32:32 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Parsing Fun In-Reply-To: <20040823034128.61193A85F3@virtu.nyphp.org> Message-ID: <004301c48915$a52ffa80$e98d3818@oberon1> Christopher Greeley writes: ... this is more of a request for some general direction in gaining some parsing skills - I am sure there are some out there with some weaker skills who could use the brush up as well. You might try looking at http://magpierss.sourceforge.net/ and following some of the links on that page. It works with PHP version 4.3.2 and uses the expat parser (see 'XML Parser Functions' at: http://www.php.net/xml ) T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From krook at us.ibm.com Mon Aug 23 10:14:34 2004 From: krook at us.ibm.com (Daniel Krook) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:14:34 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] meeting tomorrow In-Reply-To: <2871BCE2-F506-11D8-A627-00039375F9C8@musgrave.org> Message-ID: > I recall hearing that if you've RSVPed once before, you don't have to > RSVP again. Is that so for this event? Yep, that's correct. Daniel Krook, Application Developer WW Web Production Services North 2, ibm.com 1133 Westchester Avenue, White Plains, NY 10604 Personal: http://info.krook.org/ Persona: http://w3.ibm.com/eworkplace/persona_bp_finder.jsp?CNUM=9A9796897 From crackerdog22 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 23 11:23:11 2004 From: crackerdog22 at yahoo.com (D Sandmann) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:23:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Meeting Tomorrow - Where to park? Message-ID: <20040823152311.58418.qmail@web12902.mail.yahoo.com> Anyone know of a good place to park a car for this meeting? I do not have a problem walking if I can get a better rate for parking. Thanks, David __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From tgales at tgaconnect.com Mon Aug 23 13:34:59 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:34:59 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Parsing Fun (really) In-Reply-To: <6426-09362@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <000001c48937$844a87a0$e98d3818@oberon1> inforequest writes: > I always enjoy parsing (really). Well, from personal observation, I can say you do seem always enjoy to enjoy parsing (really). "parse me another one o' those cold ones" -- inforequest T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From krook at us.ibm.com Mon Aug 23 19:33:15 2004 From: krook at us.ibm.com (Daniel Krook) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:33:15 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Meeting Tomorrow - Where to park? In-Reply-To: <20040823152311.58418.qmail@web12902.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Anyone know of a good place to park a car for this meeting? I do not have a > problem walking if I can get a better rate for parking. I can't think of any place in particular, but the cheapest option would probably be to park in a garage or on the street on the far east or west side of 57th Street and hop on the M-57 bus or walk from there for 15-20 mins. I'd recommend checking rates at the garage on the north side of 56th between 5th and 6th first and deciding from there. Daniel Krook, Application Developer WW Web Production Services North 2, ibm.com 1133 Westchester Avenue, White Plains, NY 10604 Personal: http://info.krook.org/ Persona: http://w3.ibm.com/eworkplace/persona_bp_finder.jsp?CNUM=9A9796897 From jcrawford at codebowl.com Tue Aug 24 11:48:01 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 11:48:01 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Version Control Message-ID: <004d01c489f1$bddbd180$524a4044@codebowl> Guys, i know this is a bit off the php topic however i will be using it for php work, which would you suggest is better to use? CVS: http://cvshome.org/ or SubVersion: http://subversion.tigris.org/ Joe Crawford Jr. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shiflett at php.net Tue Aug 24 11:54:56 2004 From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Version Control In-Reply-To: <004d01c489f1$bddbd180$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <20040824155456.6109.qmail@web52807.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Joseph Crawford Jr." wrote: > i know this is a bit off the php topic however i will be using it for > php work, which would you suggest is better to use? I added [OT] to the subject, since that seems appropriate. However, this discussion seems very relevant to the list, even if it is off-topic. :-) > CVS: http://cvshome.org/ > or > SubVersion: http://subversion.tigris.org/ I think Subversion is better in terms of features, but if I had to choose a version control system right now, I'd still go with CVS. It's more familiar to most developers, there is more documentation, CVS clients are packaged with most operating systems, it's been around longer, etc. I think this discussion is similar to choosing a PHP compiler cache, though. The difference between using one versus not using one is huge, whereas the differences between them are minor. So, use a version control system, whichever you decide. :-) Chris ===== Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ PHP Security - O'Reilly Coming Fall 2004 HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams http://httphandbook.org/ PHP Community Site http://phpcommunity.org/ From jim at bizcomputinginc.com Tue Aug 24 14:41:49 2004 From: jim at bizcomputinginc.com (Jim Hendricks) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:41:49 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] RSVP Message-ID: <05f901c48a0a$04308050$c801a8c0@BizComputing> How do I rsvp for tonights meeting? I wrongfully thought I had 'til 3:00pm today to RSVP, but I see from the online RSVP that it's 3:00pm yesterday. I really want to attend but waited til the last minute to RSVP because I wasn't sure I was going to be able to attend. Thanks, Jim Hendricks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shiflett at php.net Tue Aug 24 15:24:54 2004 From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 12:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] RSVP In-Reply-To: <05f901c48a0a$04308050$c801a8c0@BizComputing> Message-ID: <20040824192454.72999.qmail@web52807.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jim Hendricks wrote: > How do I rsvp for tonights meeting? I think it's too late, but the link is on the front page: http://nyphp.org/rsvp.php Hope that helps. Chris ===== Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ PHP Security - O'Reilly Coming Fall 2004 HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams http://httphandbook.org/ PHP Community Site http://phpcommunity.org/ From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Tue Aug 24 16:26:37 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:26:37 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] RSVP In-Reply-To: <20040824192454.72999.qmail@web52807.mail.yahoo.com> References: <05f901c48a0a$04308050$c801a8c0@BizComputing> <20040824192454.72999.qmail@web52807.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040824202637.GA23972@panix.com> On Tue, Aug 24, 2004 at 12:24:54PM -0700, Chris Shiflett wrote: > > I think it's too late, but the link is on the front page: I have a feeling that if you bring photo ID, and explain the situation politely, they'll let you in anyway. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From adam at trachtenberg.com Tue Aug 24 16:32:06 2004 From: adam at trachtenberg.com (Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:32:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] RSVP In-Reply-To: <20040824202637.GA23972@panix.com> References: <05f901c48a0a$04308050$c801a8c0@BizComputing> <20040824192454.72999.qmail@web52807.mail.yahoo.com> <20040824202637.GA23972@panix.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, Daniel Convissor wrote: > On Tue, Aug 24, 2004 at 12:24:54PM -0700, Chris Shiflett wrote: > > > > I think it's too late, but the link is on the front page: > > I have a feeling that if you bring photo ID, and explain the situation > politely, they'll let you in anyway. If you're trying to engage in "social engineering," it wouldn't hurt to dress nicely, either. -adam -- adam at trachtenberg.com author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook" avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today! From jayeshsh at ceruleansky.com Wed Aug 25 00:29:52 2004 From: jayeshsh at ceruleansky.com (jayeshsh at ceruleansky.com) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:29:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Presentation URL Message-ID: <33276.69.86.84.8.1093408192.spork@webmail.ceruleansky.com> Hello everyone, thanks to everyone who came to my presentation today, and who gave me feedback on it. I am posting the URL of slides here. The full source code (in a zip file) should follow in a week or so. http://www.moztips.com/xul_lessons/fortunecookies/present.php This presentation was based on an old tutorial which I wrote in late June. I plan to update this tutorial too. It can be found at: http://www.moztips.com/index.php?id=266 Best Regards, - Jay Sheth From jsiegel1 at optonline.net Wed Aug 25 12:54:35 2004 From: jsiegel1 at optonline.net (Jeff Siegel) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:54:35 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Presentation URL In-Reply-To: <33276.69.86.84.8.1093408192.spork@webmail.ceruleansky.com> References: <33276.69.86.84.8.1093408192.spork@webmail.ceruleansky.com> Message-ID: <412CC44B.2040907@optonline.net> Jay, Great job on the presentation! Jeff Siegel jayeshsh at ceruleansky.com wrote: > Hello everyone, > > thanks to everyone who came to my presentation today, and who gave me > feedback on it. > > I am posting the URL of slides here. The full source code (in a zip file) > should follow in a week or so. > > http://www.moztips.com/xul_lessons/fortunecookies/present.php > > This presentation was based on an old tutorial which I wrote in late June. > I plan to update this tutorial too. > > It can be found at: > > http://www.moztips.com/index.php?id=266 > > Best Regards, > > - Jay Sheth > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From chsnyder at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 13:38:42 2004 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:38:42 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Presentation URL In-Reply-To: <412CC44B.2040907@optonline.net> References: <33276.69.86.84.8.1093408192.spork@webmail.ceruleansky.com> <412CC44B.2040907@optonline.net> Message-ID: I agree, great job! I spent the morning reading up on XUL at http://books.mozdev.org/ Thanks for the presentation. From nd at lavertue.com Wed Aug 25 15:14:18 2004 From: nd at lavertue.com (Nathan Lavertue) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP5, Oracle 9i, failure to connect Message-ID: <52598.64.95.24.238.1093461258.spork@webmail.lavertue.com> Hey... my level of PHP is ok, I don't do a heck of a lot of it on a daily basis, but I can usually get what I need from it. I just finished working on a development project creating charts with data from a MySQL database using the GD 2.0 libraries. However, the database where this will be implemented is Oracle 9i. I have access to it remotely, from my workstation, but I've only been able to connect via a shell... not using PHP. I am hosting the .php files locally for testing, since I had to compile my own version of PHP 5 with the graphic libraries, and OCI8 support. However, the database is on port 1601, and I haven't been able to get a connection to return any data yet. ... any help would be appreciated. And, I'm sure I'd need to give more information, but I'm not sure what you'd need to help though... so, ask away. Thanks. .................. nd lavertue // .flash.soldier/pixel.terrorist. ................... lavertue.com // mutemuse.com ................... From adam at trachtenberg.com Wed Aug 25 16:35:25 2004 From: adam at trachtenberg.com (Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:35:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP5, Oracle 9i, failure to connect In-Reply-To: <52598.64.95.24.238.1093461258.spork@webmail.lavertue.com> References: <52598.64.95.24.238.1093461258.spork@webmail.lavertue.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Nathan Lavertue wrote: > I just finished working on a development project creating > charts with data from a MySQL database using the GD 2.0 > libraries. However, the database where this will be implemented > is Oracle 9i. I have access to it remotely, from my > workstation, but I've only been able to connect via a shell... > not using PHP. I've never used Oracle with or without PHP, but are you sure your copy of PHP (or the Web server that's running it) runs in an environment where all the necessary Oracle environment variables have been set? See http://www.php.net/oci8 for more information. I can tell you've done this for your account, but I'm not sure you've done the same for the user Apache is running as. -adam -- adam at trachtenberg.com author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook" avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today! From jayeshsh at ceruleansky.com Wed Aug 25 16:56:18 2004 From: jayeshsh at ceruleansky.com (Jayesh Sheth) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:56:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Presentation URL Message-ID: <33661.69.86.84.8.1093467378.spork@webmail.ceruleansky.com> Hi Jeff and Chris, thanks for your emails. I am glad you liked the presentation :-) Best Regards, - Jay From tgales at tgaconnect.com Wed Aug 25 16:58:05 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:58:05 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP5, Oracle 9i, failure to connect In-Reply-To: <52598.64.95.24.238.1093461258.spork@webmail.lavertue.com> Message-ID: <001501c48ae6$37ac5ad0$e98d3818@oberon1> Nathan Lavertue writes: > I am hosting the .php files locally for testing, since I had > to compile my own version of PHP 5 with the graphic > libraries, and OCI8 support. However, the database is on port > 1601, and I haven't been able to get a connection to return > any data yet. > did you try searching at g* for 'oci8 site:lists.nyphp.org' T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From nd at lavertue.com Wed Aug 25 17:12:17 2004 From: nd at lavertue.com (Nathan Lavertue) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:12:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP5, Oracle 9i, failure to connect In-Reply-To: <001501c48ae6$37ac5ad0$e98d3818@oberon1> References: <52598.64.95.24.238.1093461258.spork@webmail.lavertue.com> <001501c48ae6$37ac5ad0$e98d3818@oberon1> Message-ID: <46405.64.95.24.239.1093468337.spork@webmail.lavertue.com> ... checking the results right now. thanks for the tip. .................. nd lavertue // .flash.soldier/pixel.terrorist. ................... lavertue.com // mutemuse.com ................... --/ Tim Gales > Nathan Lavertue writes: > >> I am hosting the .php files locally for testing, since I had >> to compile my own version of PHP 5 with the graphic >> libraries, and OCI8 support. However, the database is on port >> 1601, and I haven't been able to get a connection to return >> any data yet. >> > > did you try searching at g* for 'oci8 site:lists.nyphp.org' > > T. Gales & Associates > 'Helping People Connect with Technology' > > http://www.tgaconnect.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From nd at lavertue.com Wed Aug 25 17:16:44 2004 From: nd at lavertue.com (Nathan Lavertue) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:16:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP5, Oracle 9i, failure to connect In-Reply-To: References: <52598.64.95.24.238.1093461258.spork@webmail.lavertue.com> Message-ID: <10460.64.95.24.239.1093468604.spork@webmail.lavertue.com> Yea... pretty certain. We had tried to setup the dev Oracle environment too... (on Mac OS X) but it was getting too complicated, and I was able to access the db remotely... and since I had configured PHP with the Oracle libraries that *did* get installed... things should be ok. We seemed to have some issues, possibly, with the Apache setup. I had to add the following to the apachectl binary file... ORACLE_HOME=/Users/oracle/Source/9iR2 export ORACLE_HOME TNS_ADMIN=/Users/oracle/Source/9iR2/network/admin export TNS_ADMIN ... we get some kind of connection, but the query seems to be *stuck*. Thanks... we'll be keep on rollin' here. .................. nd lavertue // .flash.soldier/pixel.terrorist. ................... lavertue.com // mutemuse.com ................... --/ Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg > On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Nathan Lavertue wrote: > >> I just finished working on a development project creating >> charts with data from a MySQL database using the GD 2.0 >> libraries. However, the database where this will be >> implemented >> is Oracle 9i. I have access to it remotely, from my >> workstation, but I've only been able to connect via a >> shell... >> not using PHP. > > I've never used Oracle with or without PHP, but are you sure > your copy > of PHP (or the Web server that's running it) runs in an > environment > where all the necessary Oracle environment variables have been > set? > > See http://www.php.net/oci8 for more information. > > I can tell you've done this for your account, but I'm not sure > you've > done the same for the user Apache is running as. > > -adam > > -- > adam at trachtenberg.com > author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook" > avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today! > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Wed Aug 25 18:37:06 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:37:06 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP5, Oracle 9i, failure to connect In-Reply-To: <52598.64.95.24.238.1093461258.spork@webmail.lavertue.com> References: <52598.64.95.24.238.1093461258.spork@webmail.lavertue.com> Message-ID: <20040825223706.GA1976@panix.com> Hi Nathan: I'm running Oracle 9i on a Windows 2000 machine and connecting to it via PHP w/o problems. I uncommented this line in the php.ini files: extension=php_oci8.dll I'm using PEAR DB as my API. My DSN for that is: oci8://user:passwd@/db Which translates into a PHP connect method of: OCILogon(user,passwd,); If I read your posts correcly, your scritps are on your development server and your Oracle instance is on a different server you're accessing via the internet. So, my experience above doesn't exactly apply. Perhaps there's a firewall keeping you out? Perhaps Oracle isn't configured to allow connections from your machine, let alone any other machine? You're using the oci8 extension, right? --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From nd at lavertue.com Wed Aug 25 20:31:14 2004 From: nd at lavertue.com (Nathan Lavertue) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:31:14 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP5, Oracle 9i, failure to connect In-Reply-To: <20040825223706.GA1976@panix.com> References: <52598.64.95.24.238.1093461258.spork@webmail.lavertue.com> <20040825223706.GA1976@panix.com> Message-ID: <3CD146AF-F6F7-11D8-BDE4-000393BCC840@lavertue.com> ... thanks Daniel. Actually, there were 2 instances of the Oracle connection on my local machine, and this was sort of screwing up the PHP connection. You've got it down now... but, I can't really explain how. We did modify the apachectl binary to include the Oracle environments, but, I'm not even sure that did anything... weird. i do not recommend the setup! Thanks. ................... nathan lavertue // .flash.soldier/pixel.terrorist. ................... lavertue.com // mutemuse.com ................... ph. 001.917.340.3013 On Aug 25, 2004, at 6:37 PM, Daniel Convissor wrote: > Perhaps there's a firewall keeping you out? Perhaps Oracle isn't > configured to allow connections from your machine, let alone any other > machine? You're using the oci8 extension, right? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1158 bytes Desc: not available URL: From susan_shemin at yahoo.com Wed Aug 25 21:45:45 2004 From: susan_shemin at yahoo.com (Susan Shemin) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] was Presentation URL--cross-browser compatibility In-Reply-To: <33276.69.86.84.8.1093408192.spork@webmail.ceruleansky.com> Message-ID: <20040826014545.62991.qmail@web53705.mail.yahoo.com> Jay, and the group, Most people (I've seen the figure of 85%) use IE, and that's why I develop for it. Am I wrong to have the understanding that only Netscape (using the Mozilla engine) can display the WUL programming? I'm working on a PHP/MySQL site where the no refresh feature would be useful, but again, it will have to be cross-browser, or it would mean I'd have to develop two sites, one for IE and one for Netscape. Hey, guys, be gentle if I'm a bit confused here... Susan --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Wed Aug 25 21:53:38 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 21:53:38 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] was Presentation URL--cross-browser compatibility In-Reply-To: <20040826014545.62991.qmail@web53705.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040826014545.62991.qmail@web53705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <412D42A2.4050709@spacemonkeylabs.com> Susan Shemin wrote: > Jay, and the group, > > Most people (I've seen the figure of 85%) use IE, and that's why I > develop for it. Am I wrong to have the understanding that only > Netscape (using the Mozilla engine) can display the WUL programming? > I'm working on a PHP/MySQL site where the no refresh feature would be > useful, but again, it will have to be cross-browser, or it would mean > I'd have to develop two sites, one for IE and one for Netscape. XUL is natively implemented in all Mozilla-derived browsers (Mozilla, Firefox, Camino, etc.) - but Jay did mention that there were several plugins available for providing XUL capability to Explorer. Jay, could you provide the color commentary on these? I've been researching something just like this for a project that I am working on, and it really does look that your choices for such an interface boil down to XUL or Flash (gasp!). Flash has some significant eccentricities that would probably limit its effectiveness for building a really complex interface. So I am also very interested in XUL, and looking forward to Jay's source download (hint, hint) -- Mitch, in a soft new chair for his soft old backside From shiflett at php.net Wed Aug 25 22:10:55 2004 From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 19:10:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] was Presentation URL--cross-browser compatibility In-Reply-To: <412D42A2.4050709@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: <20040826021055.13196.qmail@web52802.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mitch Pirtle wrote: > XUL is natively implemented in all Mozilla-derived browsers (Mozilla, > Firefox, Camino, etc.) I'm not sure if it matters (I haven't done any testing), but Safari is based on Konqueror, not Mozilla. Chris ===== Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ PHP Security - O'Reilly Coming Fall 2004 HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams http://httphandbook.org/ PHP Community Site http://phpcommunity.org/ From sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com Thu Aug 26 00:21:46 2004 From: sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 00:21:46 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] was Presentation URL--cross-browser compatibility In-Reply-To: <20040826014545.62991.qmail@web53705.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040826014545.62991.qmail@web53705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <347-51453@sneakemail.com> Susan Shemin susan_shemin-at-yahoo.com |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: > Jay, and the group, > > Most people (I've seen the figure of 85%) use IE, and that's why I > develop for it. Am I wrong to have the understanding that only > Netscape (using the Mozilla engine) can display the WUL programming? > I'm working on a PHP/MySQL site where the no refresh feature would be > useful, but again, it will have to be cross-browser, or it would mean > I'd have to develop two sites, one for IE and one for Netscape. > > Hey, guys, be gentle if I'm a bit confused here... > > Susan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Here's how I nutshell Xul's place in the world: *You would use XUL where you would have used HTML. So you can use Xul (page coding) with CSS (for stylin) and js (for action). *Xul gives you more features than HTML; some of the features you used to embed large js scripts to get *If you make web sites, you won't want to replace your HTML with Xul unless you want to limit your website to Gecko-only visitors. *Xul runs in Gecko. Think of it as an application language, not a website coding language. What does that mean? Let's say an application is a collection of pages which must share common "memory" --kinda like they need access to a collection of variables at all times. HTTP is called "stateless" because the server only knows the client web browser when a page is requested. Between page requests, the server doesn't keep any "memory" of that browser client. That is why any variables that must be "remembered" between pages have to be passed as hidden vars, or stuffed into session cookies, or written to a file. An "application" requires state -- the more vars you are passing around between your pages inorder to make your website function, the more your web project is starting to look like a web "application". But if you write an *application*, you will start needing features like instance-programmable pop-down menus, which you will have to go to java, js or ActiveX to get (browser compatibility problems there as well). In your application you need alot of access to your variables, so you will find yourself going back and forth to the server alot. You will struggle with GET vs. POST because sometimes you need to pass vars but can't restrict the order in which a multi-part form is to be completed, for example. In fact, sometimes only some parts of a multi-part form are needed, based on what the user has already entered. That will require another hit to the server, for each examination of entered data -- unless you decide to use js.... or Xul. Get it? It becomes difficult to make an "application" out of a string of web pages.... and Xul provides a means to do multipart screens without excessive refreshes to the server, and less dependence on the use of sessions/cookies/hidden vars/and all the other techniques of coping with a "stateless" HTTP protocol. Xul lessens your dependence on complex js, by enriching the features available inside the page description language (which was HTML and is in this case Xul). It does so only for Gecko browsers. -=john andrews From krook at us.ibm.com Thu Aug 26 01:06:49 2004 From: krook at us.ibm.com (Daniel Krook) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 01:06:49 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] was Presentation URL--cross-browser compatibility In-Reply-To: <20040826014545.62991.qmail@web53705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jayesh mentioned XAML from Microsoft in passing as an emerging technology intended to compete with XUL, as well as a Gecko plugin for IE. These may be alternate or complementary options to look into. http://longhorn.msdn.microsoft.com/lhsdk/core/overviews/about%20xaml.aspx Daniel Krook, Application Developer WW Web Production Services North 2, ibm.com 1133 Westchester Avenue, White Plains, NY 10604 Personal: http://info.krook.org/ Persona: http://w3.ibm.com/eworkplace/persona_bp_finder.jsp?CNUM=9A9796897 From mwithington at PLMresearch.com Thu Aug 26 07:01:36 2004 From: mwithington at PLMresearch.com (Mark Withington) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 07:01:36 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] was Presentation URL--cross-browser compatibilit y Message-ID: <1F3CD8DDFB6A9B4C9B8DD06E4A7DE3586A6C51@network.PLMresearch.com> Oh, great, the browser war continues, this time in XML ;-) "The great thing about standards is that there's so many to choose from" -------------------------- Mark L. Withington PLMresearch v: 508-746-2383 m: 508-801-0181 Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Krook Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 1:07 AM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] was Presentation URL--cross-browser compatibility Jayesh mentioned XAML from Microsoft in passing as an emerging technology intended to compete with XUL, as well as a Gecko plugin for IE. These may be alternate or complementary options to look into. http://longhorn.msdn.microsoft.com/lhsdk/core/overviews/about%20xaml.aspx Daniel Krook, Application Developer WW Web Production Services North 2, ibm.com 1133 Westchester Avenue, White Plains, NY 10604 Personal: http://info.krook.org/ Persona: http://w3.ibm.com/eworkplace/persona_bp_finder.jsp?CNUM=9A9796897 _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From jeff.siegel at nyphp.org Thu Aug 26 09:08:56 2004 From: jeff.siegel at nyphp.org (Jeff Siegel - PHundamentals) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:08:56 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Getting hosed by Windows XP Service Pack 2 Message-ID: <412DE0E8.5060703@nyphp.org> See: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130 (A number of programs, such as Norton Antivirus...may have problems) See: http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/000167.html (Anecdotal data on PCs getting hosed) Source of Above: http://langa.com/newsletters/2004/2004-08-26.htm Jeff S. From jcrawford at codebowl.com Thu Aug 26 09:16:44 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:16:44 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Getting hosed by Windows XP Service Pack 2 References: <412DE0E8.5060703@nyphp.org> Message-ID: <003601c48b6e$efa44480$524a4044@codebowl> installing SP2 also made my friends music match library erase, not the fils just the actual library Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Siegel - PHundamentals" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:08 AM Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Getting hosed by Windows XP Service Pack 2 > See: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130 > (A number of programs, such as Norton Antivirus...may have problems) > > See: http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/000167.html > (Anecdotal data on PCs getting hosed) > > Source of Above: http://langa.com/newsletters/2004/2004-08-26.htm > > Jeff S. > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From rrust at r2communications.com Thu Aug 26 09:24:18 2004 From: rrust at r2communications.com (randal rust) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:24:18 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing Properties in PHP OOP Message-ID: <412DE482.1040703@r2communications.com> I am building an application as an exercise in moving from procedural programming to OOP. I have the following classes... class_display.php class_validator.php class_client.php What I would like to do is clean my code up a little. Within class_client and class_validator, I access and modify properties of class_display by declaring 'global $display.' I don't think this is right, but I can't seem to find another way that works. Code snippets are posted below. TIA. //code for class_display class Display { var $errors=false; var $errorM; var $success=false; var $successM; var $display=true; } //code snippet from class_validator class Validator { var $type; var $value; var $pass; function validateAlpha($value){ $value=trim($value); $pass=preg_match('/^[a-zA-Z-]+$/', $value); return $pass; } } //code snippet from class_client class Client { function clientNameCheck($value){ global $display; global $validator; $test=$validator->validateMixed($value); if(!$test){ $display->errors=true; $this->clientNameEM='

ERROR: Client name is not valid.

'; return false; } } //begin add method function addClient(){ //call to other classes global $conn; global $validator; global $display; //validate user input $this->clientNameCheck($this->clientName); } //end add method } -- Randal Rust R.Squared Communications http://www.r2communications.com Digital Design for Bricks-and-Mortar Businesses From jcrawford at codebowl.com Thu Aug 26 09:29:15 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:29:15 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing Properties in PHP OOP References: <412DE482.1040703@r2communications.com> Message-ID: <004301c48b70$af48d340$524a4044@codebowl> why not just do class client extends display { then you can use $this->displaymethod } Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "randal rust" To: Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:24 AM Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing Properties in PHP OOP > I am building an application as an exercise in moving from procedural > programming to OOP. > > I have the following classes... > > class_display.php > class_validator.php > class_client.php > > What I would like to do is clean my code up a little. Within > class_client and class_validator, I access and modify properties of > class_display by declaring 'global $display.' > > I don't think this is right, but I can't seem to find another way that > works. > > Code snippets are posted below. TIA. > > //code for class_display > > class Display { > > var $errors=false; > var $errorM; > var $success=false; > var $successM; > var $display=true; > > } > > //code snippet from class_validator > > class Validator { > > var $type; > var $value; > var $pass; > > function validateAlpha($value){ > $value=trim($value); > $pass=preg_match('/^[a-zA-Z-]+$/', $value); > return $pass; > } > > } > > //code snippet from class_client > > class Client { > > function clientNameCheck($value){ > global $display; > global $validator; > $test=$validator->validateMixed($value); > if(!$test){ > $display->errors=true; > $this->clientNameEM='

ERROR: Client name is not > valid.

'; > return false; > } > } > //begin add method > function addClient(){ > > //call to other classes > global $conn; > global $validator; > global $display; > > //validate user input > > $this->clientNameCheck($this->clientName); > } > //end add method > } > > -- > Randal Rust > > R.Squared Communications > http://www.r2communications.com > Digital Design for Bricks-and-Mortar Businesses > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From rrust at r2communications.com Thu Aug 26 09:34:20 2004 From: rrust at r2communications.com (randal rust) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:34:20 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing Properties in PHP OOP References: <412DE482.1040703@r2communications.com> <004301c48b70$af48d340$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <412DE6DC.7060503@r2communications.com> Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > class client extends display { > then you can use $this->displaymethod Because class_client also accesses the methods of class_validator. class_display controls whether or not the form is displayed. if there are errors, the form may or may not be displayed. if submission was successful, the form will not be displayed. But in order to do error checking, it has to access class_validator to check the user input. -- Randal Rust R.Squared Communications http://www.r2communications.com Digital Design for Bricks-and-Mortar Businesses From scott at crisscott.com Thu Aug 26 09:37:10 2004 From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:37:10 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing Properties in PHP OOP In-Reply-To: <412DE482.1040703@r2communications.com> References: <412DE482.1040703@r2communications.com> Message-ID: <412DE786.6070000@crisscott.com> You need to make display and validator a member of the client class. Then you client class would look like this. class Client { var $display; var $validator; var $conn; var $clientNameEM; var $clientName; function Client() { $this->display =& new Display; $this->validator =& new Validator; $this->conn =& new Conn; //Don't know where this comes from. } function clientNameCheck($value){ $test = $this->validator->validateMixed($value); if(!$test){ $this->display->errors = true; $this->clientNameEM = '

ERROR: Client name is not valid.

'; return false; } } //begin add method function addClient(){ //validate user input $this->clientNameCheck($this->clientName); } //end add method } Scott Mattocks From jeff.siegel at nyphp.org Thu Aug 26 09:41:36 2004 From: jeff.siegel at nyphp.org (Jeff Siegel - PHundamentals) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:41:36 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Getting hosed by Windows XP Service Pack 2 In-Reply-To: <003601c48b6e$efa44480$524a4044@codebowl> References: <412DE0E8.5060703@nyphp.org> <003601c48b6e$efa44480$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <412DE890.5090900@nyphp.org> Oh boy...not good. Jeff S. Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > installing SP2 also made my friends music match library erase, not the fils > just the actual library > > Joe > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Siegel - PHundamentals" > To: "NYPHP Talk" > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:08 AM > Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Getting hosed by Windows XP Service Pack 2 > > > >>See: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130 >>(A number of programs, such as Norton Antivirus...may have problems) >> >>See: http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/000167.html >>(Anecdotal data on PCs getting hosed) >> >>Source of Above: http://langa.com/newsletters/2004/2004-08-26.htm >> >>Jeff S. >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New York PHP Talk >>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>http://www.newyorkphp.org >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From jcrawford at codebowl.com Thu Aug 26 09:51:32 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:51:32 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Getting hosed by Windows XP Service Pack 2 References: <412DE0E8.5060703@nyphp.org><003601c48b6e$efa44480$524a4044@codebowl> <412DE890.5090900@nyphp.org> Message-ID: <005701c48b73$eacd9ce0$524a4044@codebowl> just makes me wonder what else it has done that he hasnt noticed ;) Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Siegel - PHundamentals" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Getting hosed by Windows XP Service Pack 2 > Oh boy...not good. > > Jeff S. > > Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > > > installing SP2 also made my friends music match library erase, not the fils > > just the actual library > > > > Joe > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jeff Siegel - PHundamentals" > > To: "NYPHP Talk" > > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:08 AM > > Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Getting hosed by Windows XP Service Pack 2 > > > > > > > >>See: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130 > >>(A number of programs, such as Norton Antivirus...may have problems) > >> > >>See: http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/000167.html > >>(Anecdotal data on PCs getting hosed) > >> > >>Source of Above: http://langa.com/newsletters/2004/2004-08-26.htm > >> > >>Jeff S. > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>New York PHP Talk > >>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > >>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > >>http://www.newyorkphp.org > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Talk > > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From jcrawford at codebowl.com Thu Aug 26 09:55:14 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:55:14 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing Properties in PHP OOP References: <412DE482.1040703@r2communications.com> <412DE786.6070000@crisscott.com> Message-ID: <005f01c48b74$501ab010$524a4044@codebowl> This is what i was going to suggest next :) Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Mattocks" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Accessing Properties in PHP OOP > You need to make display and validator a member of the client class. > Then you client class would look like this. > > class Client { > var $display; > var $validator; > var $conn; > var $clientNameEM; > var $clientName; > > function Client() { > $this->display =& new Display; > $this->validator =& new Validator; > $this->conn =& new Conn; //Don't know where this comes from. > } > > function clientNameCheck($value){ > > $test = $this->validator->validateMixed($value); > if(!$test){ > $this->display->errors = true; > $this->clientNameEM = '

ERROR: Client name > is not valid.

'; > return false; > } > } > //begin add method > function addClient(){ > > //validate user input > > $this->clientNameCheck($this->clientName); > } > //end add method > } > > Scott Mattocks > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From rrust at r2communications.com Thu Aug 26 09:53:15 2004 From: rrust at r2communications.com (randal rust) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:53:15 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing Properties in PHP OOP References: <412DE482.1040703@r2communications.com> <412DE786.6070000@crisscott.com> Message-ID: <412DEB4B.4040707@r2communications.com> Scott Mattocks wrote: > You need to make display and validator a member of the client class. > Then you client class would look like this. > > class Client { > var $display; > var $validator; > var $conn; > var $clientNameEM; > var $clientName; > > function Client() { > $this->display =& new Display; > $this->validator =& new Validator; > $this->conn =& new Conn; //Don't know where this comes from. > } OK, that makes sense. But how is it different, or better than what I'm doing now? On the surface, it appears that my current method may break in PHP 5. I'm currently using different versions of PHP 4.2+, but want to code it so that I won't have too much to change whenever I bump up to 5. FYI, $conn is a call to my database connection. And, just so I make sure I understand, each of my individual methods within client, which need to access class_display and class_validator, would need to include... $this->display =& new Display $this->validator =& new Validator ...right? -- Randal Rust R.Squared Communications http://www.r2communications.com Digital Design for Bricks-and-Mortar Businesses From scott at crisscott.com Thu Aug 26 10:09:21 2004 From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:09:21 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing Properties in PHP OOP In-Reply-To: <412DEB4B.4040707@r2communications.com> References: <412DE482.1040703@r2communications.com> <412DE786.6070000@crisscott.com> <412DEB4B.4040707@r2communications.com> Message-ID: <412DEF11.40306@crisscott.com> randal rust wrote: > OK, that makes sense. But how is it different, or better than what I'm > doing now? On the surface, it appears that my current method may break > in PHP 5. I'm currently using different versions of PHP 4.2+, but want > to code it so that I won't have too much to change whenever I bump up to 5. It is better because this allows each instance of client to have its own instance of display and validator. It will let each client display things they way they want without interfering with other client objects. You method uses only one instance of the display and validator classes. If you had two instances of the client class you can't be sure that values display has because you don't know which client has modified it last. > > FYI, $conn is a call to my database connection. > > And, just so I make sure I understand, each of my individual methods > within client, which need to access class_display and class_validator, > would need to include... > > $this->display =& new Display > $this->validator =& new Validator > > ...right? > No! The constructor (function Client()) is the only one that needs to do this. It is setting the members of the class so that they will be alvailable in _all_ methods of the class. Once $this->display is assigned you can use it in any method of the class. Scott Mattocks From rrust at r2communications.com Thu Aug 26 10:18:33 2004 From: rrust at r2communications.com (randal rust) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:18:33 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing Properties in PHP OOP References: <412DE482.1040703@r2communications.com> <412DE786.6070000@crisscott.com> <412DEB4B.4040707@r2communications.com> <412DEF11.40306@crisscott.com> Message-ID: <412DF139.8070809@r2communications.com> Scott Mattocks wrote: > It is better because this allows each instance of client to have its own > instance of display and validator. It will let each client display > things they way they want without interfering with other client objects. Thanks for explaining. That makes sense to me now. > No! The constructor (function Client()) is the only one that needs to do > this. It is setting the members of the class so that they will be > alvailable in _all_ methods of the class. Once $this->display is > assigned you can use it in any method of the class. OK, so I added the client() function, which acts as my constructor. Then, in my PHP page, I added... $client->client(); ... which sets everything up so that it can be used by the instance of the object, right? I'm guessing so, since it's working. -- Randal Rust R.Squared Communications http://www.r2communications.com Digital Design for Bricks-and-Mortar Businesses From scott at crisscott.com Thu Aug 26 10:26:33 2004 From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:26:33 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing Properties in PHP OOP In-Reply-To: <412DF139.8070809@r2communications.com> References: <412DE482.1040703@r2communications.com> <412DE786.6070000@crisscott.com> <412DEB4B.4040707@r2communications.com> <412DEF11.40306@crisscott.com> <412DF139.8070809@r2communications.com> Message-ID: <412DF319.9070905@crisscott.com> randal rust wrote: > OK, so I added the client() function, which acts as my constructor. > Then, in my PHP page, I added... > > $client->client(); > > ... which sets everything up so that it can be used by the instance of > the object, right? > > I'm guessing so, since it's working. > You don't need to call the constructor explicitly. The constructor gets called automatically when you create the instance of the class. All you need to do is use the new operator and it calls the constructor for you. $client =& new Client; What you did calls the constructor explicitly after the class is instantiated. If you did something to the class, that modified any of it's properties, between the time you instantiated it and the time you called the constructor explicitly you would loose any of those changes. For instance: $client =& new Client; $client->display->errors = true; print_r($client); $client->client(); print_r($client); The output should show that even though you set errors to true it was reset to false when you called the constructor. That is because it reassigned the display property with a new display object that had the defualt settings. Scott Mattocks From jcrawford at codebowl.com Thu Aug 26 10:43:52 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:43:52 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing Properties in PHP OOP References: <412DE482.1040703@r2communications.com> <412DE786.6070000@crisscott.com> <412DEB4B.4040707@r2communications.com> <412DEF11.40306@crisscott.com><412DF139.8070809@r2communications.com> <412DF319.9070905@crisscott.com> Message-ID: <007101c48b7b$3b451d40$524a4044@codebowl> better yet, if you want to make things work with php5 as well, do this class client { function client() { $this->__construct(); } function __construct() { //constructor here } } Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Mattocks" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Accessing Properties in PHP OOP > randal rust wrote: > > > OK, so I added the client() function, which acts as my constructor. > > Then, in my PHP page, I added... > > > > $client->client(); > > > > ... which sets everything up so that it can be used by the instance of > > the object, right? > > > > I'm guessing so, since it's working. > > > You don't need to call the constructor explicitly. The constructor gets > called automatically when you create the instance of the class. All you > need to do is use the new operator and it calls the constructor for you. > > $client =& new Client; > > What you did calls the constructor explicitly after the class is > instantiated. If you did something to the class, that modified any of > it's properties, between the time you instantiated it and the time you > called the constructor explicitly you would loose any of those changes. > For instance: > > $client =& new Client; > $client->display->errors = true; > print_r($client); > $client->client(); > print_r($client); > > The output should show that even though you set errors to true it was > reset to false when you called the constructor. That is because it > reassigned the display property with a new display object that had the > defualt settings. > > Scott Mattocks > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From adam at trachtenberg.com Thu Aug 26 11:12:30 2004 From: adam at trachtenberg.com (Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:12:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing Properties in PHP OOP In-Reply-To: <007101c48b7b$3b451d40$524a4044@codebowl> References: <412DE482.1040703@r2communications.com> <412DE786.6070000@crisscott.com> <412DEB4B.4040707@r2communications.com> <412DEF11.40306@crisscott.com><412DF139.8070809@r2communications.com> <412DF319.9070905@crisscott.com> <007101c48b7b$3b451d40$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > better yet, if you want to make things work with php5 as well, do this > > class client { > function client() { > $this->__construct(); > } > > function __construct() { > //constructor here > } > > } This is unnecessary, as PHP 5 will "fallback" if it can't find a constructor named __construct() upon the old PHP 4 style constructor naming scheme. -adam -- adam at trachtenberg.com author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook" avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today! From scott at crisscott.com Thu Aug 26 11:17:20 2004 From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:17:20 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Accessing Properties in PHP OOP In-Reply-To: References: <412DE482.1040703@r2communications.com> <412DE786.6070000@crisscott.com> <412DEB4B.4040707@r2communications.com> <412DEF11.40306@crisscott.com><412DF139.8070809@r2communications.com> <412DF319.9070905@crisscott.com> <007101c48b7b$3b451d40$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <412DFF00.9070403@crisscott.com> Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg wrote: > On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > > >>better yet, if you want to make things work with php5 as well, do this >> >>class client { >> function client() { >> $this->__construct(); >> } >> >> function __construct() { >> //constructor here >> } >> >>} > > > This is unnecessary, as PHP 5 will "fallback" if it can't find a > constructor named __construct() upon the old PHP 4 style constructor > naming scheme. > > -adam > But if you don't do it that way then you loose the whole point of __construct which is to be able to change the name of the class without having to change the name of all the calls to the parent constructor. If you don't know where you code will be running or what will happen to it in the future its probably better to throw in some redundancy. Scott Mattocks From jayeshsh at ceruleansky.com Thu Aug 26 11:56:36 2004 From: jayeshsh at ceruleansky.com (Jayesh Sheth) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] was Presentation URL--cross-browser Message-ID: <33319.69.86.84.8.1093535796.spork@webmail.ceruleansky.com> Hi Susan and Mitch (and others), The idea of XUL has inspired many other non-Mozilla XUL-like technologies. Examples of these are XML interfaces provided through Flash (Lazlo Systems) or through Java (Thinlet and jXUL). Adam Lock (who previously worked for Netscape as part of the Mozilla team before it was disbanded) has produced a Mozilla plugin for Internet Explorer (IE). It installs the Mozilla engine (Gecko) as an ActiveX control for IE. You can get it here: http://www.iol.ie/~locka/mozilla/mozilla.htm (Adam Lock also has a similarly-named, but different project for embedding ActiveX controls inside of Mozilla.) I should also point out that it is possible to create semi-rich web applications using web services (XML-RPC / SOAP) and HTML and JavaScript. Some people from NYPHP were nice enough to send me GMail invitations after my presentation, and I got to try it out. It seems that GMail is taking this approach, although I have not really inspected its code. The deal with using HTML + JavaScript + web services for semi-rich web applications is that you are still stuck with the rather inflexible HTML widgets. For example, an HTML drop-down box's contents () cannot be edited directly. Mozilla provides an attribute to turn on this feature (editable="true", or something like that). Additionally, some Mozilla widgets are designed to hold thousands of rows of data. (Specifically, the column display widget used to display rows of email titles in Thunderbird / Mozilla Mail). If you think of an otherwise excellent traditional web application such as Squirrelmail (webmail app using PHP), you will realize how much better it would be if it had been implemented using something XUL-like. For example, to page through rows of email titles, one would simple have to use the scrollbar. I think that if you want cross-browser compatibility for a rich or semi-rich web application, you could go with a commercial Flash-based product such as Lazlo System's presentation server or with a more cross-browser-friendly HTML + JavaScript + Web Services approach. XUL has many built-in niceties such as tabs, editable widgets, etc. which have no direct HTML equivalents. I think in its current state, XUL-based applications are ideal for Intranet-based applications, and particularly for data-entry oriented applications. Often with data-entry oriented applications, one has to present many input fields spread over many different "pages" / screens. Mozilla's tab or wizard tags could come in handy here. Also - with XUL + JS + Web Services + PHP / MySQL, once data is entered and the Submit button pressed, the data can be passed back to the server, and validation errors can be displayed using a JavaScript alert or by highlighting a relevant field, all without the dreaded page-refresh. Thus input validation can be done on the server (PHP) side, and the results of that validation can be displayed on the client side. Libraries such as PEAR's HTML_QuickForm provide separate validation logic for the client and server sides. Even though this logic is automatically generated, it is worth pointing out that with a rich web app using XUL, this validation logic would only have to be written once (on the server-side). Thus validation logic could be "hidden" on the server-side, or use more complex server-side information analysis (such as seeing if an entered zip code is valid), yet intervene on the client-side. I hope that all makes sense ... - Jay From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Thu Aug 26 12:20:48 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:20:48 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] can anyone recommend a good captcha? In-Reply-To: <1090512362.22464.112.camel@bezel> References: <002c01c4592d$c4973220$e98d3818@oberon1> <23644-91154@sneakemail.com> <1088009378.19948.25.camel@bezel> <20040722152921.GA1306@panix.com> <1090512362.22464.112.camel@bezel> Message-ID: <20040826162048.GA13343@panix.com> Hi Joel: Getting back to this aging thread... On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 04:06:02PM +0000, Joel De Gan wrote: > Are you talking about how to keep crackbots out? or how to crack one one > of these? Keeping crackers out. > I have done a lot of work in cracking captcha's (and have published code > all over about it). Thanks for your great advice. I have a few questions... * Does it matter what type of image is used? I'd guess JPEG's lossy, somewhat imprecise, nature would be a _little_ harder for bots to decipher. * I'm using fuzzy fonts, but they may be a bit _too_ fuzzy for humans to easily figure out. I'm pondering if it would be better to use cleaner fonts, but split each letter in half along a random axis and then move the two halves apart a little bit in a random direction. This would likely thwart attempts to use the font files to reverse engineer the characters. Anyway here's my CAPTCHA implementation thusfar... The source of the image generation is at: http://cvs.php.net/co.php/pearweb/public_html/captcha-image.php and the value generation is at the bottom of: http://cvs.php.net/co.php/pearweb/include/pear-format-html.php In order to allow testing before deployment, the code I posted doesn't generate images on the form pages yet. To see what the CAPTCHAs look like, go to this page to initialize a captcha session var: http://pear.php.net/bugs/bug.php?id=14&edit=3 Then view the image here: http://pear.php.net/captcha-help.php Please let me know what you think. > The main issue here with this one is the random line(s) and the opacity. Opacity? How would I tweak that for a particular object? I didn't see any related functions in the php gd man page. I am juggling colors, though. Thanks, --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From john at coggeshall.org Thu Aug 26 12:35:33 2004 From: john at coggeshall.org (John Coggeshall) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:35:33 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] can anyone recommend a good captcha? In-Reply-To: <20040826162048.GA13343@panix.com> References: <002c01c4592d$c4973220$e98d3818@oberon1> <23644-91154@sneakemail.com> <1088009378.19948.25.camel@bezel> <20040722152921.GA1306@panix.com> <1090512362.22464.112.camel@bezel> <20040826162048.GA13343@panix.com> Message-ID: <1093538133.22785.114.camel@unix-101-34.hq.communityconnect.com> Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but the reality is when it comes to captcha there is really a very very low tech requirement for them to be very effective, and going too much beyond that isn't going to buy you very much. What I mean is, you can probably get away with a text-based captcha (see the comment form on my blog at http://www.coggeshall.org/)... Which is going to stop 99% of the people in the world. If you are actually concerned, I wouldn't even worry about someone doing OCR as its really not worth their time. Rather, if someone is looking to do that they will setup a porn site and make people type in the word they see in the box in order to see their porn and go that route -- which is exactly what happens with Yahoo! John On Thu, 2004-08-26 at 12:20, Daniel Convissor wrote: > Hi Joel: > > Getting back to this aging thread... > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 04:06:02PM +0000, Joel De Gan wrote: > > Are you talking about how to keep crackbots out? or how to crack one one > > of these? > > Keeping crackers out. > > > > I have done a lot of work in cracking captcha's (and have published code > > all over about it). > > Thanks for your great advice. > > I have a few questions... > > * Does it matter what type of image is used? I'd guess JPEG's lossy, > somewhat imprecise, nature would be a _little_ harder for bots to > decipher. > > * I'm using fuzzy fonts, but they may be a bit _too_ fuzzy for humans > to easily figure out. I'm pondering if it would be better to use > cleaner fonts, but split each letter in half along a random axis and > then move the two halves apart a little bit in a random direction. > This would likely thwart attempts to use the font files to reverse > engineer the characters. > > > Anyway here's my CAPTCHA implementation thusfar... > > The source of the image generation is at: > http://cvs.php.net/co.php/pearweb/public_html/captcha-image.php > > and the value generation is at the bottom of: > http://cvs.php.net/co.php/pearweb/include/pear-format-html.php > > In order to allow testing before deployment, the code I posted doesn't > generate images on the form pages yet. To see what the CAPTCHAs look > like, go to this page to initialize a captcha session var: > http://pear.php.net/bugs/bug.php?id=14&edit=3 > > Then view the image here: > http://pear.php.net/captcha-help.php > > Please let me know what you think. > > > > The main issue here with this one is the random line(s) and the opacity. > > Opacity? How would I tweak that for a particular object? I didn't > see any related functions in the php gd man page. I am juggling > colors, though. > > Thanks, > > --Dan From crackerdog22 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 26 12:44:24 2004 From: crackerdog22 at yahoo.com (D Sandmann) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:44:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Getting hosed by Windows XP Service Pack 2 In-Reply-To: <003601c48b6e$efa44480$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <20040826164424.98838.qmail@web12908.mail.yahoo.com> I installed it on a friends computer and now his Iomega CD Drive does not work. The same CD drive that I installed SP2 from to begin with. Contacted Iomega and they are clueless but said that others have contacted them with the same problem and that they were looking into it. David --- "Joseph Crawford Jr." wrote: > installing SP2 also made my friends music match library erase, not the fils > just the actual library > > Joe > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Siegel - PHundamentals" > To: "NYPHP Talk" > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:08 AM > Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Getting hosed by Windows XP Service Pack 2 > > > > See: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130 > > (A number of programs, such as Norton Antivirus...may have problems) > > > > See: http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/000167.html > > (Anecdotal data on PCs getting hosed) > > > > Source of Above: http://langa.com/newsletters/2004/2004-08-26.htm > > > > Jeff S. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Talk > > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Thu Aug 26 12:53:47 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:53:47 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Getting hosed by Windows XP Service Pack 2 In-Reply-To: <412DE0E8.5060703@nyphp.org> References: <412DE0E8.5060703@nyphp.org> Message-ID: <20040826165347.GA15737@panix.com> Hey Jeff: Sorry you're having headaches. I've installed SP2 on a few machines without incident. I handed out a CD at Tuesday's meeting containing SP2 and a bunch of other handy scripts and utilities. For those who got that CD, I subsequently wrote a README file for the CD and a set of instructions for turning off unnecessary protocols. If you'd like those emailed to you, drop me a note directly (not via the mailing list). For those that didn't get it, in addition to SP2, it most notably has the following two items: IE60sp1-Tweak Improvements to Internet Explorer's security settings XpPro-SecurityGuide Instructions and templates from Microsoft for locking down Windows XP Professional. XpPro-SecurityTemplates My scripts for automating the process of locking down Windows XP Professional. These are based on the materials from Microsoft in the prior directory. Xp-Tweaks Loads of adjustments to the Windows user interface that make things easier to use and a bit more secure. Plus a bunch of good programs and utilities that are nice to have in one place. If you'd like one, pop me an email off-list. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Thu Aug 26 13:34:16 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:34:16 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] can anyone recommend a good captcha? In-Reply-To: <1093538133.22785.114.camel@unix-101-34.hq.communityconnect.com> References: <002c01c4592d$c4973220$e98d3818@oberon1> <23644-91154@sneakemail.com> <1088009378.19948.25.camel@bezel> <20040722152921.GA1306@panix.com> <1090512362.22464.112.camel@bezel> <20040826162048.GA13343@panix.com> <1093538133.22785.114.camel@unix-101-34.hq.communityconnect.com> Message-ID: <20040826173416.GA17328@panix.com> Hey John: On Thu, Aug 26, 2004 at 12:35:33PM -0400, John Coggeshall wrote: > What I mean is, you can probably get away with a > text-based captcha Agreed. When the php.net bug system got comment spammed a month or so ago, I quickly set up a text based CAPTCHA system for pear.php.net. As it turned out, Derrick said the attacker scraped the pages before submitting, which could have defeated a text based system. > Rather, if someone > is looking to do that they will setup a porn site and make people type > in the word they see in the box in order to see their porn and go that > route -- which is exactly what happens with Yahoo! Yep. That's a clever workaround. No security is impenetrable. That reminds me, I wanted to add a time check to the system... (hack, hack, hack, commit). Thanks, --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Thu Aug 26 13:37:22 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:37:22 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Getting hosed by Windows XP Service Pack 2 In-Reply-To: <20040826165347.GA15737@panix.com> References: <412DE0E8.5060703@nyphp.org> <20040826165347.GA15737@panix.com> Message-ID: <20040826173721.GA19559@panix.com> Folks: On Thu, Aug 26, 2004 at 12:53:47PM -0400, Daniel Convissor wrote: > > If you'd like one, pop me an email off-list. Let's cut to the chase: If you want one you have to give me a snail mail address. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From jcrawford at codebowl.com Thu Aug 26 14:06:04 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:06:04 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Getting hosed by Windows XP Service Pack 2 References: <412DE0E8.5060703@nyphp.org> <20040826165347.GA15737@panix.com> <20040826173721.GA19559@panix.com> Message-ID: <00a801c48b97$5beabed0$524a4044@codebowl> Dan, what's wrong with you? Dont you want to eat up all the bandwidth/time you have sending that CD over the net :) can't blame ya there i would require a snail mail addy too. Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Convissor" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Getting hosed by Windows XP Service Pack 2 > Folks: > > On Thu, Aug 26, 2004 at 12:53:47PM -0400, Daniel Convissor wrote: > > > > If you'd like one, pop me an email off-list. > > Let's cut to the chase: If you want one you have to give me a snail > mail address. > > --Dan > > -- > T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y > data intensive web and database programming > http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ > 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From hans at cyberxdesigns.com Thu Aug 26 14:06:29 2004 From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:06:29 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] August Presentation and Audio File Posted. Message-ID: <412E26A5.3060004@cyberxdesigns.com> I have posted the August Presentations and Audio to the NY PHP web site. MySQL Cluster and Creating Rich Applications with Mozilla, XUL, and AMP Technology http://www.nyphp.org/content/presentations/index.php Hans Kaspersetz http://www.cyberxdesigns.com From dmintz at davidmintz.org Thu Aug 26 17:28:42 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:28:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] allow_url_fopen In-Reply-To: <5737BA84-F2D9-11D8-853D-000D93359332@omniti.com> References: <000001c48611$e84330a0$e98d3818@oberon1> <30059-43397@sneakemail.com> <5737BA84-F2D9-11D8-853D-000D93359332@omniti.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, George Schlossnagle wrote: > > That would work, You should encourage the Pair folks to upgrade as > well. 4.3.4 is old now. > Shame, shame on me. They ~are~ running 4.3.8. Until moments ago I failed to realize that I was reading the version info from my outdated php binary that I was using for CGI mode. I would keep my mouth shut and not embarrass myself, but being the honorable sort, I thought I owed it to pair to fall on my sword and correct the public record. And yeah pair is the ones who provide bandwidth and hardware to PEAR. btw thanks for the advice. I think I will use cURL. --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From maymaynyc at hotmail.com Thu Aug 26 18:36:01 2004 From: maymaynyc at hotmail.com (maymay) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:36:01 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Possible to send email to _specific_ exchange server? Message-ID: Hello all, I have an interesting problem which I?m unable to solve on my own. I?m hoping someone here can offer some help. This is my first post to the list, but I?ve been lurking for a while and it seems that many brilliant and generous minds post here. Here?s my problem: I?ve got a client with a tiny web site which I built for them. In it, I included a contact form ? nothing fancy, just an HTML form to send mail() to a specific address: me at sphgrp.com The problem arose when I transferred the site from my server to theirs: they have a shared web hosting plan provided by LunarPages.com with the domain name sphgrp.com but they have their email accounts set up at Network Solutions, Inc, also with the host name sphgrp.com. This means that whenever PHP sends an email to me at sphgrp.com, it never leaves LunarPages? network and instead of getting routed to the email account at Network Solutions it gets routed to the main account webmail at LunarPage?s control panel! Not the intended effect at all. I?ve spent almost a day and a half on the phones with Tech Support from both Network Solutions and LunarPages, and they have only succeeded in making me more confused. On the one hand, one tech told me to change the PHP script. On the other, another tech told me to get the IP address of the mail server at Network Solutions and put that address as the MX record in LunarPage?s DNS entries for my domain name. Network Solutions, however, refuses to provide that IP address for some reason. My ultimate question, then, is how (if it?s even possible) can I route mail off LunarPage?s network when its sent from PHP so that it is correctly delivered to my client?s inbox? Changing the domain name in one or both instances is not a possibility, and I would very, very much like to avoid telling the client that they need to transfer their mail account off their current provider. I haven?t the DNS or PHP knowledge to figure this one out, and the tech support people aren?t supportive at all. Thanks in advance for any and all help. -Meitar Moscovitz P.S. I usually get this list in a digest, but this is a time-sensitive situation. I?d be extremely grateful if a helpful reply could be CCed to maymaynyc at hotmail.com directly so that I might catch it before the next digest. Thanks again. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spot at deviantart.com Thu Aug 26 18:43:44 2004 From: spot at deviantart.com (Spot) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:43:44 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Coder search Message-ID: <412E67A0.8030402@deviantart.com> I cannot recall if this is the correct list for this sort of thing. If not, please accept my apologizes. I am with deviantART.com. We are looking for a AMP coder who preferably resides in Los Angeles and is available for a full time position. The environment provides a highly innovative and quickly moving workplace. We are the largest art community in the world. We receive 10 million hits and 300,000 uniques per day. Almost 1,000,000 artists. If you are interested, or know someone who might be, please contact me at spot at deviantart.com Thank you, Spot deviantART Inc. www.deviantART.com From ajai at bitblit.net Thu Aug 26 18:47:17 2004 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:47:17 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Possible to send email to _specific_ exchange server? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <412E6875.7000503@bitblit.net> maymay wrote: > I have an interesting problem which I?m unable to solve on my own. I?m > hoping someone here can offer some help. This is my first post to the > list, but I?ve been lurking for a while and it seems that many > brilliant and generous minds post here. > > Here?s my problem: > > I?ve got a client with a tiny web site which I built for them. In it, > I included a contact form ? nothing fancy, just an HTML form to send > mail() to a specific address: me at sphgrp.com > > The problem arose when I transferred the site from my server to > theirs: they have a shared web hosting plan provided by LunarPages.com > with the domain name sphgrp.com but they have their email accounts set > up at Network Solutions, Inc, also with the host name sphgrp.com. > > This means that whenever PHP sends an email to me at sphgrp.com, it never > leaves LunarPages? network and instead of getting routed to the email > account at Network Solutions it gets routed to the main account > webmail at LunarPage?s control panel! Not the intended effect at all. Its possible that Lunar Pages have erroneously configured their mail server to accept mail for sphgrp.com and so when the web server forwards the email to their server it just delivers it locally instead of looking up the MX and sending it on to the Network Solutions mail server for that domain. I see the MX record in DNS for sphgrp.com points to INBOUND.SPHGRP.COM.NETSOLMAIL.NET. You can probably test this by connecting to the Lunar Pages mail server and see if you can send to an email address in the sphgrp.com domain (if you can then that's a problem). Either way the problem appears to be at the Lunar Pages end. -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Thu Aug 26 20:58:33 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:58:33 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] 404 for CLEW page Message-ID: <20040827005832.GB13642@panix.com> Hey: http://nyphp.org/content/presentations/nyphp/index.php?slide=12 Contains a link to CLEW: http://clew.nyphp.org/clew/clew But that produces a 404. Thanks, --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From chsnyder at gmail.com Thu Aug 26 21:32:42 2004 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:32:42 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] 404 for CLEW page In-Reply-To: <20040827005832.GB13642@panix.com> References: <20040827005832.GB13642@panix.com> Message-ID: Fixed it, thanks Dan. From chendry at gmail.com Thu Aug 26 22:49:33 2004 From: chendry at gmail.com (Christopher Hendry) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 22:49:33 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Possible to send email to _specific_ exchange server? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <769e4ce040826194963aa3e2a@mail.gmail.com> If you have a control panel at LunarPages - can you simply delete the MX record at their DNS? Otherwise, I think the IP your're looking for at Network Solutions is: 216.168.230.179 (traceroute or ping mail.sphgrp.com). Overall, I'd have to say you need to get that duplicate MX record cleared up. If all else fails, route it to an email address you have control over and redirect from there - but that's just plain crazy. ---- This means that whenever PHP sends an email to me at sphgrp.com, it never leaves LunarPages' network and instead of getting routed to the email account at Network Solutions it gets routed to the main account webmail at LunarPage's control panel! Not the intended effect at all. From hans at nyphp.com Thu Aug 26 23:19:04 2004 From: hans at nyphp.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:19:04 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Files or BLOBs?? Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8703D7AEDB@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> > Im planning a web-based application where users upload text files to a > site where they are stored and can be searched, viewed, edited, etc. My > first instinct is to use some database to make indexing and searching > nice and fast. However, each file can vary from 26K to 35K - and I think > this is rather large to store in a column in MySQL so maybe I will have > to use files and use MySQL to store meta-data about the file. What do > you guys consider a good approach for this sort of thing? Typically it's recommended to store files on the filesystem, with metadata in MySQL. There are many reasons for this, and depending on traffic and filesize they may not be that important, but here are some general thoughts: In order to retrieve a file from MySQL, this process has to happen: -- SELECT query is sent to MySQL, which is processed and a result returned -- the entire contents of the file is sent to Apache/PHP, and stored in a PHP variable. -- PHP then essentially echo's the file contents through it's own output mechanism, which in turns then goes through Apache This process involves a lot of network and memory IO, so it's much less efficient than sending directly from a filesystem. That said, in some environments (like shared hosting, where filesystem permissions can be troublesome) keeping everything in MySQL could make sense. H From hans at nyphp.com Thu Aug 26 23:23:05 2004 From: hans at nyphp.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:23:05 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Selecting unix timestamp from MySQL (3.x) datetimefield Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8703D7AEE0@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> > > I wish this were a DATE_FORMAT option... > > > > How do I turn a MySQL DATETIME field (0000-00-00 00:00) into a Unix > > timestamp? > > > > Strtotime() choked. > > a MySQL function: > > UNIX_TIMESTAMP('0000-00-00 blah...') That will do it, but also keep in mind the potential for date overflow, since a UNIX timestamp has a smaller range than a DATETIME column. UNIX_TIMESTAMP('1935-05-29') for example H From hans at nyphp.com Thu Aug 26 23:31:25 2004 From: hans at nyphp.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:31:25 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] DB for large datasets Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8703D7AEE9@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> > I'm developing an internal application that takes information about > network traffic, and stores it in tables, currently MySQL, for each > month. A merge table gets queried instead of having to look through > each table. Now, the problem is, we're looking at more than 30M records/mo > and MySQL is just barfing. I'm getting the notorious error 127 from the Expand on barf... Error 127 can come from quite a few different problems. First, double check http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/MERGE_table_problems.html that you're not doing something that could cause problems. Maybe you're running into a 4gb limit at the OS level? What version of MySQL? What OS? There are many factors, including tuning parameters, that could solve this. 30 million records is not that big and I've worked with prospects supporting many more than that. One option would be to archive monthly tables to the compressed MyISAM storage handler, since they're probably read-only. Of course, you could consider InnoDB, which often works better with larger tables. --- Hans Zaunere, Sales Engineer MySQL, Inc. www.mysql.com Office: +1 212.213.1131 Are you MySQL certified? www.mysql.com/certification From hans at nyphp.com Thu Aug 26 23:33:22 2004 From: hans at nyphp.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:33:22 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] email quota hander in PHP Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8703D7AEEB@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> > Anybody here want to try and talk me out of writing a PHP script to help me > trim down over-quota mailboxes on my server? Somehow I pick up the > impression from some people that PHP is just not meant for this kind of > thing, and that I'd be better off going with python or perl. Since I'm much > more familiar with PHP than most anything else, that seems a lot more > convenient. > > The background is that I've been looking for some ways to manage email > quotas per user on my server, something that's a little more flexible than > procmail's "bounce anything over-quota" methods. Not having found anything > existing, I've started to hack something together in PHP that would get > called daily by cron and then implement a certain policy on over-quota mbox > files (basically, delete oldest messages one-by-one until mbox size is > acceptable, but never delete anything less than x days old). I've also got > access to something in Python which I could (extensively) modify -- but I > don't look forward to that. > > Anybody in NYPHP-land want to issue a word of warning before I go this way? I think using PHP for this would be fine. CLI PHP works great and I use it constantly. Depending on your MTA, you could even check the quota "just-in-time", that is when mail is delivered, but before it's written to the mbox (Postfix comes to mind) H From chsnyder at gmail.com Fri Aug 27 00:12:42 2004 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 00:12:42 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Files or BLOBs?? In-Reply-To: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8703D7AEDB@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> References: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8703D7AEDB@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> Message-ID: If you have a localhost database and you don't want to sweat file permissions (webserver-writeable directory), the 25 - 35KB filesize is nothin'. Be sure to check the maximum TEXT/BLOB sizes at http://dev.mysql.com/doc/mysql/en/Storage_requirements.html (12.5.3) If I'm not mistaken, a LONGTEXT column can store up to 4GB of data per record. chris. From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Fri Aug 27 00:35:54 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 00:35:54 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Getting hosed by Windows XP Service Pack 2 In-Reply-To: <412DE0E8.5060703@nyphp.org> References: <412DE0E8.5060703@nyphp.org> Message-ID: <20040827043554.GA27550@panix.com> Hi: Just in case... "How to remove Windows XP Service Pack 2 from your computer" http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=875350 --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From nasir81 at gmail.com Fri Aug 27 01:10:31 2004 From: nasir81 at gmail.com (Nasir Zubair) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:10:31 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Possible to send email to _specific_ exchange server? In-Reply-To: <412E6875.7000503@bitblit.net> References: <412E6875.7000503@bitblit.net> Message-ID: <40fcda7304082622104c7f0a60@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:47:17 -0400, Ajai Khattri wrote: > maymay wrote: > > > I have an interesting problem which I'm unable to solve on my own. I'm > > hoping someone here can offer some help. This is my first post to the > > list, but I've been lurking for a while and it seems that many > > brilliant and generous minds post here. > > > > Here's my problem: > > > > I've got a client with a tiny web site which I built for them. In it, > > I included a contact form ? nothing fancy, just an HTML form to send > > mail() to a specific address: me at sphgrp.com > > > > The problem arose when I transferred the site from my server to > > theirs: they have a shared web hosting plan provided by LunarPages.com > > with the domain name sphgrp.com but they have their email accounts set > > up at Network Solutions, Inc, also with the host name sphgrp.com. > > > > This means that whenever PHP sends an email to me at sphgrp.com, it never > > leaves LunarPages' network and instead of getting routed to the email > > account at Network Solutions it gets routed to the main account > > webmail at LunarPage's control panel! Not the intended effect at all. > > Its possible that Lunar Pages have erroneously configured their mail > server to accept mail for sphgrp.com and so when the web server forwards > the email to their server it just delivers it locally instead of looking > up the MX and sending it on to the Network Solutions mail server for > that domain. I see the MX record in DNS for sphgrp.com points to > INBOUND.SPHGRP.COM.NETSOLMAIL.NET. You can probably test this by > connecting to the Lunar Pages mail server and see if you can send to an > email address in the sphgrp.com domain (if you can then that's a > problem). Either way the problem appears to be at the Lunar Pages end. > > -- > Aj. > Systems Administrator / Developer > Hi, Lunar pages uses CPanel servers. Exim mailserver on pretty much all CPanel servers is configured to look up /etc/localdomains file to see if the destination domain is present on the machine, before trying a remote SMTP. if the domain is in /etc/localdomains file, the message will be delivered locally. Also, there would be no point asking them to remove your domain from the localdomains list, because next time some one runs cpanel maintenance scripts, the domain will be added right back. I'm sure this isn't the help you were looking for, but the solution that has worked for me is to remove the domain from the local machine. Perhaps someone else can point out a different way. - Nasir From jsiegel1 at optonline.net Fri Aug 27 07:26:17 2004 From: jsiegel1 at optonline.net (Jeff Siegel) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 07:26:17 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Filezilla & Putty Security Updates Message-ID: <412F1A59.8040403@optonline.net> Security holes found in Putty and Filezilla. Brief description and relevant URLs are below. Jeff S. ========================================================================== "2004-08-03 SECURITY HOLE, fixed in PuTTY 0.55 PuTTY 0.55, released today, fixes a serious security hole which may allow a server to execute code of its choice on a PuTTY client connecting to it. In SSH2, the attack can be performed before host key verification, meaning that even if you trust the server you think you are connecting to, a different machine could be impersonating it and could launch the attack before you could tell the difference. We recommend everybody upgrade to 0.55 as soon as possible. " http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/download.html -------- "Recently, a security vulnerability in PuTTY was found (read http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ for details) which allows attackers to execute malicious code on anyone using PuTTY. Since the SFTP support in FileZilla is based on PuTTY, FileZilla was vulnerable as well if connecting to SFTP servers. Version 2.2.8 of FileZilla fixes the security holes." http://sourceforge.net/projects/filezilla From jcrawford at codebowl.com Fri Aug 27 08:51:09 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:51:09 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Selecting unix timestamp from MySQL (3.x)datetimefield References: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8703D7AEE0@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> Message-ID: <001801c48c34$8db390c0$524a4044@codebowl> here is some sample code, however i am afraid it cannot be done within an sql statement function getTimestamp($mysqlDateTime) { $data = split(" ", $mysqlDateTime); $datedata = $data[0]; $timedata = data[1]; $date = split("-", $datedata); $time = split(":", $timedata); $year = $date[0]; $month = $date[1]; $day = $date[2]; $hour = $time[0]; $minute = $time[1]; return mktime($hour, $minute, 0, $month, $day, $year); } there may be easier ways if so someone share ;) Joe Crawford Jr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Zaunere" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 11:23 PM Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Selecting unix timestamp from MySQL (3.x)datetimefield > > I wish this were a DATE_FORMAT option... > > > > How do I turn a MySQL DATETIME field (0000-00-00 00:00) into a Unix > > timestamp? > > > > Strtotime() choked. > > a MySQL function: > > UNIX_TIMESTAMP('0000-00-00 blah...') That will do it, but also keep in mind the potential for date overflow, since a UNIX timestamp has a smaller range than a DATETIME column. UNIX_TIMESTAMP('1935-05-29') for example H _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From jcrawford at codebowl.com Fri Aug 27 08:58:24 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:58:24 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] 404 for CLEW page References: <20040827005832.GB13642@panix.com> Message-ID: <000a01c48c35$99b7a040$524a4044@codebowl> is there a way to download CLEW? Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "csnyder" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] 404 for CLEW page > Fixed it, thanks Dan. > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From jcrawford at codebowl.com Fri Aug 27 09:17:57 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 09:17:57 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Free News Servers Message-ID: <000e01c48c38$4d22ccc0$524a4044@codebowl> Anyone here know where i can get a free news server? i would like to write an application in php that allowed people to search newsgroups etc.. but my ISP offers one BUT the site must be on one of thier IP's or it wont be able to access the server. Joe Crawford Jr. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chsnyder at gmail.com Fri Aug 27 12:17:58 2004 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:17:58 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] 404 for CLEW page In-Reply-To: <000a01c48c35$99b7a040$524a4044@codebowl> References: <20040827005832.GB13642@panix.com> <000a01c48c35$99b7a040$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:58:24 -0400, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > is there a way to download CLEW? Oui, monsieur! Clew is available via CVS at http://cvs.nyphp.org/ There is no tarball or anything yet because it's no where near ready for release, but feel free to browse. From jcrawford at codebowl.com Fri Aug 27 12:28:45 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:28:45 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] 404 for CLEW page References: <20040827005832.GB13642@panix.com><000a01c48c35$99b7a040$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <001301c48c52$ecadb330$524a4044@codebowl> thanks for this information ;) Joe Crawford Jr. From phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com Fri Aug 27 12:35:18 2004 From: phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com (Phillip Powell) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:35:18 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work with me on cookies offsite here? Message-ID: <412F62C6.1090409@adnet-sys.com> I'd rather not bug the list with this but I've stumped even the superior Chris Bielanski with this one.. I am writing a logout.php script that simply deletes the cookie, deletes the session variables and redirects. Right now, it only redirects. The cookie and session variables remain intact in spite of my best efforts. I'm at a loss as to what to do at this point so I'm appealing to higher minds on this one. Someone contact me and I'll send the code for review and tell me what I did wrong, please. Thanx Phil -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phil Powell Multimedia Programmer BPX Technologies, Inc. #: (703) 709-7218 x107 Fax: (703) 709-7219 From adam at ecamp.net Fri Aug 27 12:31:55 2004 From: adam at ecamp.net (Adam) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:31:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work with me on cookies offsite here? In-Reply-To: <412F62C6.1090409@adnet-sys.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Phillip Powell wrote: |I'd rather not bug the list with this but I've stumped even the superior |Chris Bielanski with this one.. | |I am writing a logout.php script that simply deletes the cookie, deletes |the session variables and redirects. | |Right now, it only redirects. The cookie and session variables remain |intact in spite of my best efforts. I'm at a loss as to what to do at |this point so I'm appealing to higher minds on this one. Someone |contact me and I'll send the code for review and tell me what I did |wrong, please. | |Thanx |Phil | | From rahmin at insite-out.com Fri Aug 27 12:46:44 2004 From: rahmin at insite-out.com (Rahmin Pavlovic) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:46:44 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work with me on cookies offsite here? Message-ID: <200408271646.i7RGkiqJ004879@webmail2.megamailservers.com> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From ashaw at iifwp.org Fri Aug 27 12:42:18 2004 From: ashaw at iifwp.org (Allen Shaw) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:42:18 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] email quota hander in PHP References: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8703D7AEEB@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> Message-ID: <008201c48c56$28286ab0$6401a8c0@iifwp.local> Hans, Thanks for the input. Not getting any response earlier, I decided to dive in, and it's going well. Thanks, Allen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Zaunere" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 11:33 PM Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] email quota hander in PHP > > > Anybody here want to try and talk me out of writing a PHP script to > help me > > trim down over-quota mailboxes on my server? Somehow I pick up the > > impression from some people that PHP is just not meant for this kind > of > > thing, and that I'd be better off going with python or perl. Since > I'm much > > more familiar with PHP than most anything else, that seems a lot more > > convenient. > > > > The background is that I've been looking for some ways to manage email > > quotas per user on my server, something that's a little more flexible > than > > procmail's "bounce anything over-quota" methods. Not having found > anything > > existing, I've started to hack something together in PHP that would > get > > called daily by cron and then implement a certain policy on over-quota > mbox > > files (basically, delete oldest messages one-by-one until mbox size > is > > acceptable, but never delete anything less than x days old). I've > also got > > access to something in Python which I could (extensively) modify -- > but I > > don't look forward to that. > > > > Anybody in NYPHP-land want to issue a word of warning before I go this > way? > > I think using PHP for this would be fine. CLI PHP works great and I use > it constantly. Depending on your MTA, you could even check the quota > "just-in-time", that is when mail is delivered, but before it's written > to the mbox (Postfix comes to mind) > > H > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org From jlacey at att.net Fri Aug 27 12:54:37 2004 From: jlacey at att.net (John Lacey) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:54:37 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work with me on cookies offsite here? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <412F674D.6030301@att.net> Adam wrote: > > On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Phillip Powell wrote: > > |I'd rather not bug the list with this but I've stumped even the superior > |Chris Bielanski with this one.. > | > |I am writing a logout.php script that simply deletes the cookie, deletes > |the session variables and redirects. > | > |Right now, it only redirects. The cookie and session variables remain > |intact in spite of my best efforts. I'm at a loss as to what to do at > |this point so I'm appealing to higher minds on this one. Someone > |contact me and I'll send the code for review and tell me what I did > |wrong, please. what happens if you write a test that: 1. deletes the cookie -- observe results 2. deletes the session variables -- observe results since "3." is already happening, I'd work on 1 and 2 John From kushner at gmail.com Fri Aug 27 12:58:54 2004 From: kushner at gmail.com (Daniel Kushner) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 09:58:54 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work with me on cookies offsite here? In-Reply-To: <412F62C6.1090409@adnet-sys.com> References: <412F62C6.1090409@adnet-sys.com> Message-ID: <7ac626ed04082709581739a233@mail.gmail.com> Hi Phil, It's not easy deleting session cookies (if that's what you're using, and don't confuse with PHP sessions). I would suggest changing their value to something like -1, 0, or false. -Daniel On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:35:18 -0400, Phillip Powell wrote: > I'd rather not bug the list with this but I've stumped even the superior > Chris Bielanski with this one.. > > I am writing a logout.php script that simply deletes the cookie, deletes > the session variables and redirects. > > Right now, it only redirects. The cookie and session variables remain > intact in spite of my best efforts. I'm at a loss as to what to do at > this point so I'm appealing to higher minds on this one. Someone > contact me and I'll send the code for review and tell me what I did > wrong, please. > > Thanx > Phil > > -- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Phil Powell > Multimedia Programmer > BPX Technologies, Inc. > #: (703) 709-7218 x107 > Fax: (703) 709-7219 > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com Fri Aug 27 13:07:31 2004 From: phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com (Phillip Powell) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:07:31 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work with me on cookies offsite here? In-Reply-To: <412F674D.6030301@att.net> References: <412F674D.6030301@att.net> Message-ID: <412F6A53.3040801@adnet-sys.com> John Lacey wrote: > Adam wrote: > >> >> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Phillip Powell wrote: >> >> |I'd rather not bug the list with this but I've stumped even the >> superior |Chris Bielanski with this one.. >> | >> |I am writing a logout.php script that simply deletes the cookie, >> deletes |the session variables and redirects. >> | >> |Right now, it only redirects. The cookie and session variables >> remain |intact in spite of my best efforts. I'm at a loss as to what >> to do at |this point so I'm appealing to higher minds on this one. >> Someone |contact me and I'll send the code for review and tell me >> what I did |wrong, please. > > > what happens if you write a test that: > 1. deletes the cookie -- observe results Cookie is never deleted, I tried that. > 2. deletes the session variables -- observe results Session variables are never deleted, I tried that too. :( Phil > > since "3." is already happening, I'd work on 1 and 2 > > John > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phil Powell Multimedia Programmer BPX Technologies, Inc. #: (703) 709-7218 x107 Fax: (703) 709-7219 From phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com Fri Aug 27 13:08:56 2004 From: phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com (Phillip Powell) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:08:56 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work with me on cookies offsite here? In-Reply-To: <7ac626ed04082709581739a233@mail.gmail.com> References: <412F62C6.1090409@adnet-sys.com> <7ac626ed04082709581739a233@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <412F6AA8.6070206@adnet-sys.com> Daniel Kushner wrote: >Hi Phil, > >It's not easy deleting session cookies (if that's what you're using, >and don't confuse with PHP sessions). I would suggest changing their >value to something like -1, 0, or false. > > Change the cookie value? I can try that, I am using a session cookie (as well as PHP sessions) setcookie("$projectFolderName", "$username", 0, '/'); And upon deletion I do this: setcookie("$projectFolderName", '', time() - 86400); No dice though. :( Phil >-Daniel > > >On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:35:18 -0400, Phillip Powell > wrote: > > >>I'd rather not bug the list with this but I've stumped even the superior >>Chris Bielanski with this one.. >> >>I am writing a logout.php script that simply deletes the cookie, deletes >>the session variables and redirects. >> >>Right now, it only redirects. The cookie and session variables remain >>intact in spite of my best efforts. I'm at a loss as to what to do at >>this point so I'm appealing to higher minds on this one. Someone >>contact me and I'll send the code for review and tell me what I did >>wrong, please. >> >>Thanx >>Phil >> >>-- >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Phil Powell >>Multimedia Programmer >>BPX Technologies, Inc. >>#: (703) 709-7218 x107 >>Fax: (703) 709-7219 >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New York PHP Talk >>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>http://www.newyorkphp.org >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phil Powell Multimedia Programmer BPX Technologies, Inc. #: (703) 709-7218 x107 Fax: (703) 709-7219 From kushner at gmail.com Fri Aug 27 13:10:18 2004 From: kushner at gmail.com (Daniel Kushner) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:10:18 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work with me on cookies offsite here? In-Reply-To: <412F6AA8.6070206@adnet-sys.com> References: <412F62C6.1090409@adnet-sys.com> <7ac626ed04082709581739a233@mail.gmail.com> <412F6AA8.6070206@adnet-sys.com> Message-ID: <7ac626ed0408271010af28e@mail.gmail.com> This is how IE handles cookies - I'm not too sure about other browsers. The session cookies aren't stored on the clients file system but in memory only. Non-session cookies are stored on the file system. When you set your cookie with a '0', the data is in memory, and when you're doing "time() - 86400", it's on the file system. Try setcookie($projectFolderName, '', 0, '/'); -Daniel On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:08:56 -0400, Phillip Powell wrote: > Daniel Kushner wrote: > > >Hi Phil, > > > >It's not easy deleting session cookies (if that's what you're using, > >and don't confuse with PHP sessions). I would suggest changing their > >value to something like -1, 0, or false. > > > > > > Change the cookie value? I can try that, I am using a session cookie > (as well as PHP sessions) > > setcookie("$projectFolderName", "$username", 0, '/'); > > And upon deletion I do this: > > setcookie("$projectFolderName", '', time() - 86400); > > No dice though. :( > > Phil > > > > >-Daniel > > > > > >On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:35:18 -0400, Phillip Powell > > wrote: > > > > > >>I'd rather not bug the list with this but I've stumped even the superior > >>Chris Bielanski with this one.. > >> > >>I am writing a logout.php script that simply deletes the cookie, deletes > >>the session variables and redirects. > >> > >>Right now, it only redirects. The cookie and session variables remain > >>intact in spite of my best efforts. I'm at a loss as to what to do at > >>this point so I'm appealing to higher minds on this one. Someone > >>contact me and I'll send the code for review and tell me what I did > >>wrong, please. > >> > >>Thanx > >>Phil > >> > >>-- > >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>Phil Powell > >>Multimedia Programmer > >>BPX Technologies, Inc. > >>#: (703) 709-7218 x107 > >>Fax: (703) 709-7219 > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>New York PHP Talk > >>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > >>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > >>http://www.newyorkphp.org > >> > >> > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >New York PHP Talk > >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > >http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > > > > > > -- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Phil Powell > Multimedia Programmer > BPX Technologies, Inc. > #: (703) 709-7218 x107 > Fax: (703) 709-7219 > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From dmintz at davidmintz.org Fri Aug 27 13:14:43 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:14:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Selecting unix timestamp from MySQL (3.x)datetimefield In-Reply-To: <001801c48c34$8db390c0$524a4044@codebowl> References: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8703D7AEE0@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> <001801c48c34$8db390c0$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: Can I suggest an optimization? Use explode(). "If you don't require the power of regular expressions, it is faster to use explode(), which doesn't incur the overhead of the regular expression engine." --http://us3.php.net/split Or: use a preg_split(), a regex, and make it a two-liner? list($year,$month,$day,$hour,$minute,$second) = preg_split('/[- :]/',$mysqlDateTime); Or: consider mysql's own UNIX_TIMESTAMP(date) function in the first place. On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > here is some sample code, however i am afraid it cannot be done within an > sql statement > > function getTimestamp($mysqlDateTime) { > $data = split(" ", $mysqlDateTime); > $datedata = $data[0]; > $timedata = data[1]; > > $date = split("-", $datedata); > $time = split(":", $timedata); > > $year = $date[0]; > $month = $date[1]; > $day = $date[2]; > $hour = $time[0]; > $minute = $time[1]; > > return mktime($hour, $minute, 0, $month, $day, $year); > } > --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com Fri Aug 27 13:20:47 2004 From: phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com (Phillip Powell) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:20:47 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work with me on cookies offsite here? In-Reply-To: <7ac626ed0408271010af28e@mail.gmail.com> References: <412F62C6.1090409@adnet-sys.com> <7ac626ed04082709581739a233@mail.gmail.com> <412F6AA8.6070206@adnet-sys.com> <7ac626ed0408271010af28e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <412F6D6F.5000207@adnet-sys.com> Daniel Kushner wrote: >This is how IE handles cookies - I'm not too sure about other browsers. > >The session cookies aren't stored on the clients file system but in >memory only. Non-session cookies are stored on the file system. When >you set your cookie with a '0', the data is in memory, and when you're >doing "time() - 86400", it's on the file system. Try >setcookie($projectFolderName, '', 0, '/'); > >-Daniel > > This worked: setcookie("$projectFolderName", '', time() - 86400, '/'); Apparently it simply couldn't find it, I left off '/' Phil > >On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:08:56 -0400, Phillip Powell > wrote: > > >>Daniel Kushner wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hi Phil, >>> >>>It's not easy deleting session cookies (if that's what you're using, >>>and don't confuse with PHP sessions). I would suggest changing their >>>value to something like -1, 0, or false. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Change the cookie value? I can try that, I am using a session cookie >>(as well as PHP sessions) >> >>setcookie("$projectFolderName", "$username", 0, '/'); >> >>And upon deletion I do this: >> >>setcookie("$projectFolderName", '', time() - 86400); >> >>No dice though. :( >> >>Phil >> >> >> >> >> >>>-Daniel >>> >>> >>>On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:35:18 -0400, Phillip Powell >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>I'd rather not bug the list with this but I've stumped even the superior >>>>Chris Bielanski with this one.. >>>> >>>>I am writing a logout.php script that simply deletes the cookie, deletes >>>>the session variables and redirects. >>>> >>>>Right now, it only redirects. The cookie and session variables remain >>>>intact in spite of my best efforts. I'm at a loss as to what to do at >>>>this point so I'm appealing to higher minds on this one. Someone >>>>contact me and I'll send the code for review and tell me what I did >>>>wrong, please. >>>> >>>>Thanx >>>>Phil >>>> >>>>-- >>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>Phil Powell >>>>Multimedia Programmer >>>>BPX Technologies, Inc. >>>>#: (703) 709-7218 x107 >>>>Fax: (703) 709-7219 >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>New York PHP Talk >>>>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >>>>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>>>http://www.newyorkphp.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New York PHP Talk >>>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >>>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>>http://www.newyorkphp.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Phil Powell >>Multimedia Programmer >>BPX Technologies, Inc. >>#: (703) 709-7218 x107 >>Fax: (703) 709-7219 >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New York PHP Talk >>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>http://www.newyorkphp.org >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phil Powell Multimedia Programmer BPX Technologies, Inc. #: (703) 709-7218 x107 Fax: (703) 709-7219 From Cbielanski at inta.org Fri Aug 27 13:20:53 2004 From: Cbielanski at inta.org (Chris Bielanski) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:20:53 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work with me on c ookies offsite here? Message-ID: Oh man, wouldn't that mean that IE users won't be logged out until the browser restarts? Mother of *suck.* Thanks, Chris Bielanski Web Programmer, International Trademark Association, 1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor New York, NY 10036 +1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Kushner [mailto:kushner at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:10 PM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: Re: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work > with me on > cookies offsite here? > > > This is how IE handles cookies - I'm not too sure about other > browsers. > > The session cookies aren't stored on the clients file system but in > memory only. Non-session cookies are stored on the file system. When > you set your cookie with a '0', the data is in memory, and when you're > doing "time() - 86400", it's on the file system. Try > setcookie($projectFolderName, '', 0, '/'); > From Cbielanski at inta.org Fri Aug 27 13:22:15 2004 From: Cbielanski at inta.org (Chris Bielanski) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:22:15 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work with me on c ookies offsite here? Message-ID: Okay, disregard my last comment - glad you got it solved Phil. Personally I don't make use of cookies, so I hadn't much experience with the problem. If in the future I'm so required, I'll be sure to watch out for this :) Thanks, Chris Bielanski Web Programmer, International Trademark Association, 1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor New York, NY 10036 +1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Bielanski [mailto:Cbielanski at inta.org] > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:21 PM > To: 'NYPHP Talk' > Subject: RE: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work > with me on > c ookies offsite here? > > > Oh man, wouldn't that mean that IE users won't be logged out until the > browser restarts? > > Mother of *suck.* > > > Thanks, > Chris Bielanski > Web Programmer, > International Trademark Association, > 1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor > New York, NY 10036 > +1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 > mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org > INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Daniel Kushner [mailto:kushner at gmail.com] > > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:10 PM > > To: NYPHP Talk > > Subject: Re: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work > > with me on > > cookies offsite here? > > > > > > This is how IE handles cookies - I'm not too sure about other > > browsers. > > > > The session cookies aren't stored on the clients file system but in > > memory only. Non-session cookies are stored on the file system. When > > you set your cookie with a '0', the data is in memory, and > when you're > > doing "time() - 86400", it's on the file system. Try > > setcookie($projectFolderName, '', 0, '/'); > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com Fri Aug 27 13:47:36 2004 From: phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com (Phillip Powell) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:47:36 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work with me on c ookies offsite here? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <412F73B8.20901@adnet-sys.com> That was a very simple solution to the cookie problem, however, it doesn't help solve the problem with deleting session variables. I don't want to use session_destroy() as I wish to keep the session. The session itself will be a collection object containing elements from several different projects on the same domain. I want to delete the session variables ONLY that pertain to the CMA project, not the XYZ project or the ABC project. This did not work: foreach ($_SESSION as $key => $val) { if (preg_match("/^${projectFolderName}_/i", $key)) unset($_SESSION[$key]); } This did no change to the session whatsoever. Phil Chris Bielanski wrote: >Okay, disregard my last comment - glad you got it solved Phil. >Personally I don't make use of cookies, so I hadn't much experience with the >problem. If in the future I'm so required, I'll be sure to watch out for >this :) > > >Thanks, >Chris Bielanski >Web Programmer, >International Trademark Association, >1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor >New York, NY 10036 >+1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 >mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org >INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Chris Bielanski [mailto:Cbielanski at inta.org] >>Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:21 PM >>To: 'NYPHP Talk' >>Subject: RE: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work >>with me on >>c ookies offsite here? >> >> >>Oh man, wouldn't that mean that IE users won't be logged out until the >>browser restarts? >> >>Mother of *suck.* >> >> >>Thanks, >>Chris Bielanski >>Web Programmer, >>International Trademark Association, >>1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor >>New York, NY 10036 >>+1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 >>mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org >>INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence >> >> >> >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Daniel Kushner [mailto:kushner at gmail.com] >>>Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:10 PM >>>To: NYPHP Talk >>>Subject: Re: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work >>>with me on >>>cookies offsite here? >>> >>> >>>This is how IE handles cookies - I'm not too sure about other >>>browsers. >>> >>>The session cookies aren't stored on the clients file system but in >>>memory only. Non-session cookies are stored on the file system. When >>>you set your cookie with a '0', the data is in memory, and >>> >>> >>when you're >> >> >>>doing "time() - 86400", it's on the file system. Try >>>setcookie($projectFolderName, '', 0, '/'); >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>New York PHP Talk >>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>http://www.newyorkphp.org >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phil Powell Multimedia Programmer BPX Technologies, Inc. #: (703) 709-7218 x107 Fax: (703) 709-7219 From maymaynyc at hotmail.com Fri Aug 27 13:43:38 2004 From: maymaynyc at hotmail.com (maymay) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:43:38 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: OT: Possible to send email to _specific_ exchange server? In-Reply-To: <20040827051044.17ACCA87BB@virtu.nyphp.org> Message-ID: Thank you all for the quick replies. >From the responses to my question, I gather that there isn't a way to explicitly state from *within a PHP script* that I want mail to go to a specific mail exchange server. Is that accurate? If so, the rest of this message could be considered somewhat off-topic as it applies to the DNS and not really to PHP. Please accept my apologies in advance for that. Is there a good DNS forum somewhere which would be more suited to these questions? As it currently stands, I've set up a "plain crazy" forwarding scheme so that, at the very least, things are "working." Christopher Hendry wrote: > If you have a control panel at LunarPages - can you simply delete the > MX record at their DNS? Nasir wrote: > Hi, > > Lunar pages uses CPanel servers. Exim mailserver on pretty much all > CPanel servers is configured to look up /etc/localdomains file to see > if the destination domain is present on the machine, before trying a > remote SMTP. if the domain is in /etc/localdomains file, the message > will be delivered locally. Also, there would be no point asking them > to remove your domain from the localdomains list, because next time > some one runs cpanel maintenance scripts, the domain will be added > right back. > > I'm sure this isn't the help you were looking for, but the solution > that has worked for me is to remove the domain from the local machine. > > Perhaps someone else can point out a different way. > > - Nasir Does this mean that Exim is not even looking up the MX record to begin with? If so, then wouldn't deleting the MX record from the Cpanel (if that's even possible) be superfluous? If Exim isn't looking up the MX records then what good would it to do alter them on LunarPage's? External emails (i.e, emails sent from home or other networks) work properly because they never get into LunarPage's servers. It's only when the email originates at a LunarPages server does the email get routed incorrectly. -Meitar Moscovitz From preinheimer at gmail.com Fri Aug 27 13:45:11 2004 From: preinheimer at gmail.com (Paul Reinheimer) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:45:11 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] - Getting hosed by Windows XP Service Pack 2 In-Reply-To: <20040827043554.GA27550@panix.com> References: <412DE0E8.5060703@nyphp.org> <20040827043554.GA27550@panix.com> Message-ID: <6ec19ec704082710457410ec78@mail.gmail.com> > "How to remove Windows XP Service Pack 2 from your computer" > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=875350 Step 1: Insert #FAVOURITE DISTRO HERE# CD into CD rom drive Step 2: Reboot .. Step X: Profit? :) From Cbielanski at inta.org Fri Aug 27 13:52:39 2004 From: Cbielanski at inta.org (Chris Bielanski) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:52:39 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work with me on c ook ies offsite here? Message-ID: Now for that, I see a simple solution - make your $_SESSION variable a multidimensional associative array, with credentials for each section as a key. $_SESSION['ABC'] = array("key1" => "value1", "key2" => "value2") $_SESSION['XYZ'] = array("key1" => "value1", "key2" => "value2") That way, when they log out of ABC, you only unset or blank out $_SESSION["ABC"] and the rest of your session data persists. If you need to pass all that stuff as a URL query sring, use urlencode(serialize($_SESSION)) to convert the array into something that can go into a URL. Thanks, Chris Bielanski Web Programmer, International Trademark Association, 1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor New York, NY 10036 +1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence > -----Original Message----- > From: Phillip Powell [mailto:phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com] > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:48 PM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work with me on c > ookies offsite here? > > > That was a very simple solution to the cookie problem, however, it > doesn't help solve the problem with deleting session > variables. I don't > want to use session_destroy() as I wish to keep the session. > > The session itself will be a collection object containing > elements from > several different projects on the same domain. I want to delete the > session variables ONLY that pertain to the CMA project, not the XYZ > project or the ABC project. > > This did not work: > > foreach ($_SESSION as $key => $val) { > if (preg_match("/^${projectFolderName}_/i", $key)) > unset($_SESSION[$key]); > } > > This did no change to the session whatsoever. > > Phil > > Chris Bielanski wrote: > > >Okay, disregard my last comment - glad you got it solved Phil. > >Personally I don't make use of cookies, so I hadn't much > experience with the > >problem. If in the future I'm so required, I'll be sure to > watch out for > >this :) > > > > > >Thanks, > >Chris Bielanski > >Web Programmer, > >International Trademark Association, > >1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor > >New York, NY 10036 > >+1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 > >mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org > >INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence > > > > > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Chris Bielanski [mailto:Cbielanski at inta.org] > >>Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:21 PM > >>To: 'NYPHP Talk' > >>Subject: RE: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work > >>with me on > >>c ookies offsite here? > >> > >> > >>Oh man, wouldn't that mean that IE users won't be logged > out until the > >>browser restarts? > >> > >>Mother of *suck.* > >> > >> > >>Thanks, > >>Chris Bielanski > >>Web Programmer, > >>International Trademark Association, > >>1133 Avenue of the Americas, 33rd Floor > >>New York, NY 10036 > >>+1 (212) 642-1745, f: +1 (212) 768-7796 > >>mailto:cbielanski at inta.org, www.inta.org > >>INTA -- 125 Years of Excellence > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: Daniel Kushner [mailto:kushner at gmail.com] > >>>Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:10 PM > >>>To: NYPHP Talk > >>>Subject: Re: Re: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work > >>>with me on > >>>cookies offsite here? > >>> > >>> > >>>This is how IE handles cookies - I'm not too sure about other > >>>browsers. > >>> > >>>The session cookies aren't stored on the clients file system but in > >>>memory only. Non-session cookies are stored on the file > system. When > >>>you set your cookie with a '0', the data is in memory, and > >>> > >>> > >>when you're > >> > >> > >>>doing "time() - 86400", it's on the file system. Try > >>>setcookie($projectFolderName, '', 0, '/'); > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>New York PHP Talk > >>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > >>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > >>http://www.newyorkphp.org > >> > >> > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >New York PHP Talk > >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > >http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > > > > > > > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------- > Phil Powell > Multimedia Programmer > BPX Technologies, Inc. > #: (703) 709-7218 x107 > Fax: (703) 709-7219 > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com Fri Aug 27 14:26:37 2004 From: phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com (Phillip Powell) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:26:37 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP/setcookie: Can someone work with me on cookies offsite here? In-Reply-To: <7ac626ed0408271010af28e@mail.gmail.com> References: <412F62C6.1090409@adnet-sys.com> <7ac626ed04082709581739a233@mail.gmail.com> <412F6AA8.6070206@adnet-sys.com> <7ac626ed0408271010af28e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <412F7CDD.8060700@adnet-sys.com> Daniel Kushner wrote: >This is how IE handles cookies - I'm not too sure about other browsers. > >The session cookies aren't stored on the clients file system but in >memory only. Non-session cookies are stored on the file system. When >you set your cookie with a '0', the data is in memory, and when you're >doing "time() - 86400", it's on the file system. Try >setcookie($projectFolderName, '', 0, '/'); > >-Daniel > > > Thanx. Apparently redirection has now failed and so cookies nor sessions delete of course. I can't figure out what is going on other than that something is being tossed into the HTTP headers to cause header() to bomb out (no warnings, no errors, no nothing), thus, no redirection, so I just plain gave up and threw down some rather way-substandard PHP code to band-aid it: [PHP] /** * Logout * * @access public * @return mixed HTML (returns HTML only if header() fails) */ function &logout() { // STATIC VOID OR HTML STRING METHOD global $projectFolderName, $projectURLPath, $willAuthenticate, $projectAcronym, $phpVersionInt; if ($willAuthenticate) setcookie("$projectFolderName", '', time() - 86400, '/'); // DELETE COOKIE foreach ($_SESSION as $key => $val) { if (preg_match("/^{$projectAcronym}_/i", $key)) { $_SESSION[$key] = ''; unset($_SESSION[$key]); // DELETE ALL PROJECT SESSION VARIABLES } } global $_SESSION; @flush(); if ((int)$phpVersionInt > 420) @ob_flush(); // YOU CAN ONLY FLUSH OUTPUT BUFFER IN PHP VERSIONS 4.2+ clearstatcache(); header('Location: http://' . $_SERVER['SERVER_NAME'] . "$projectURLPath/index.php"); // DEFAULT REDIRECT TO MAIN PAGE $html .= "\n\n\n"; return $html; } [/PHP] This works, however. Phil >On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:08:56 -0400, Phillip Powell > wrote: > > >>Daniel Kushner wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hi Phil, >>> >>>It's not easy deleting session cookies (if that's what you're using, >>>and don't confuse with PHP sessions). I would suggest changing their >>>value to something like -1, 0, or false. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Change the cookie value? I can try that, I am using a session cookie >>(as well as PHP sessions) >> >>setcookie("$projectFolderName", "$username", 0, '/'); >> >>And upon deletion I do this: >> >>setcookie("$projectFolderName", '', time() - 86400); >> >>No dice though. :( >> >>Phil >> >> >> >> >> >>>-Daniel >>> >>> >>>On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:35:18 -0400, Phillip Powell >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>I'd rather not bug the list with this but I've stumped even the superior >>>>Chris Bielanski with this one.. >>>> >>>>I am writing a logout.php script that simply deletes the cookie, deletes >>>>the session variables and redirects. >>>> >>>>Right now, it only redirects. The cookie and session variables remain >>>>intact in spite of my best efforts. I'm at a loss as to what to do at >>>>this point so I'm appealing to higher minds on this one. Someone >>>>contact me and I'll send the code for review and tell me what I did >>>>wrong, please. >>>> >>>>Thanx >>>>Phil >>>> >>>>-- >>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>Phil Powell >>>>Multimedia Programmer >>>>BPX Technologies, Inc. >>>>#: (703) 709-7218 x107 >>>>Fax: (703) 709-7219 >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>New York PHP Talk >>>>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >>>>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>>>http://www.newyorkphp.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New York PHP Talk >>>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >>>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>>http://www.newyorkphp.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Phil Powell >>Multimedia Programmer >>BPX Technologies, Inc. >>#: (703) 709-7218 x107 >>Fax: (703) 709-7219 >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New York PHP Talk >>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>http://www.newyorkphp.org >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phil Powell Multimedia Programmer BPX Technologies, Inc. #: (703) 709-7218 x107 Fax: (703) 709-7219 From jcrawford at codebowl.com Fri Aug 27 14:26:00 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:26:00 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: PHP5 & IMAP Message-ID: <005401c48c63$4e325970$524a4044@codebowl> i should also mention the error i am getting is this Fatal error: Call to undefined function imap_open() in D:\htdocs\NmlForum\index.php on line 2 when using this code just to test and make sure it was working. Joe Crawford Jr. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcrawford at codebowl.com Fri Aug 27 14:35:08 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:35:08 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: PHP5 & IMAP References: <005401c48c63$4e325970$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <006e01c48c64$b8aadc40$524a4044@codebowl> cancel this post, i was editing an ini in c:\php when it was using one in c:\winnt now to figure out how to make it use the c:\php one Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Crawford Jr. To: NYPHP Talk Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 2:26 PM Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: PHP5 & IMAP i should also mention the error i am getting is this Fatal error: Call to undefined function imap_open() in D:\htdocs\NmlForum\index.php on line 2 when using this code just to test and make sure it was working. Joe Crawford Jr. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew at digitalpulp.com Fri Aug 27 14:33:14 2004 From: andrew at digitalpulp.com (Andrew Yochum) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:33:14 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: PHP5 & IMAP In-Reply-To: <005401c48c63$4e325970$524a4044@codebowl> References: <005401c48c63$4e325970$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <20040827183313.GM2180@thighmaster.digitalpulp.com> On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 02:26:00PM -0400, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > i should also mention the error i am getting is this > > Fatal error: Call to undefined function imap_open() in D:\htdocs\NmlForum\index.php on line 2 > > when using this code just to test and make sure it was working. > > $nntp = imap_open("nntp.idg.pl", "", ""); > echo $nntp; > imap_close($nntp); > ?> Sounds like you need to compile PHP5 with the --with-imap option, turn on the module in your php.ini, or load it with dl(). In other words, you're missing the IMAP support module. Andrew From ajai at bitblit.net Fri Aug 27 14:32:02 2004 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:32:02 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: PHP5 & IMAP In-Reply-To: <005401c48c63$4e325970$524a4044@codebowl> References: <005401c48c63$4e325970$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <412F7E22.3000305@bitblit.net> Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > i should also mention the error i am getting is this > > *Fatal error*: Call to undefined function imap_open() in > *D:\htdocs\NmlForum\index.php* on line *2* > ** > when using this code just to test and make sure it was working. > > $nntp = imap_open("nntp.idg.pl", "", ""); > echo $nntp; > imap_close($nntp); > ?> Are you sure IMAP support is enabled in your PHP build? -- Aj. Systems Administrator / Developer From scott at crisscott.com Fri Aug 27 14:40:30 2004 From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:40:30 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Running PHP5 and PHP4 at the same time Message-ID: <412F801E.6090006@crisscott.com> Does anyone have any tips for getting PHP5 and 4 to run on the same machine? I want PHP4 to run as my CLI version of PHP (for PHP-GTK) and PHP5 to work with Apache. Is it as easy as just installing in two different places? /usr/local/lib/php4 and /usr/local/lib/php? Thanks, Scott Mattocks From jcrawford at codebowl.com Fri Aug 27 14:58:35 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:58:35 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Running PHP5 and PHP4 at the same time References: <412F801E.6090006@crisscott.com> Message-ID: <008d01c48c67$dfbc8290$524a4044@codebowl> Scott, the easiest way to do this is to use xampp it allows you to switch between php 4 and 5 whenever you want. Joe Crawford Jr. From scott at crisscott.com Fri Aug 27 15:03:27 2004 From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:03:27 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Running PHP5 and PHP4 at the same time In-Reply-To: <008d01c48c67$dfbc8290$524a4044@codebowl> References: <412F801E.6090006@crisscott.com> <008d01c48c67$dfbc8290$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <412F857F.6020900@crisscott.com> Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > Scott, > > the easiest way to do this is to use xampp it allows you to switch between > php 4 and 5 whenever you want. I don't need all the extras that come with xampp though. I have everything else already installed. I just want to add PHP5 without breaking too much stuff. And I don't really want to have to "swicth" if I can help it. I don't really need 5 on the command line right now, just as the Apache module. Scott From phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com Fri Aug 27 15:11:51 2004 From: phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com (Phillip Powell) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:11:51 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Running PHP5 and PHP4 at the same time In-Reply-To: <412F857F.6020900@crisscott.com> References: <412F801E.6090006@crisscott.com> <008d01c48c67$dfbc8290$524a4044@codebowl> <412F857F.6020900@crisscott.com> Message-ID: <412F8777.2090105@adnet-sys.com> Sorry for the question but I need to ask this: Why would you want both on the same machine? That makes no sense as far as application development is concerned. Just have PHP 5 and write code that's backwards-compatible. Phil Scott Mattocks wrote: > Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > >> Scott, >> >> the easiest way to do this is to use xampp it allows you to switch >> between >> php 4 and 5 whenever you want. > > > I don't need all the extras that come with xampp though. I have > everything else already installed. I just want to add PHP5 without > breaking too much stuff. And I don't really want to have to "swicth" > if I can help it. I don't really need 5 on the command line right now, > just as the Apache module. > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phil Powell Multimedia Programmer BPX Technologies, Inc. #: (703) 709-7218 x107 Fax: (703) 709-7219 From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Fri Aug 27 15:08:42 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:08:42 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Running PHP5 and PHP4 at the same time In-Reply-To: <412F801E.6090006@crisscott.com> References: <412F801E.6090006@crisscott.com> Message-ID: <20040827190842.GA24870@panix.com> On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 02:40:30PM -0400, Scott Mattocks wrote: > Is it as easy as just installing in two > different places? /usr/local/lib/php4 and /usr/local/lib/php? I run 4 and 5 together all the time. Two separate directories. Both are CGI, though, but that shouldn't make a difference. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From scott at crisscott.com Fri Aug 27 15:09:53 2004 From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:09:53 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Running PHP5 and PHP4 at the same time In-Reply-To: <412F8777.2090105@adnet-sys.com> References: <412F801E.6090006@crisscott.com> <008d01c48c67$dfbc8290$524a4044@codebowl> <412F857F.6020900@crisscott.com> <412F8777.2090105@adnet-sys.com> Message-ID: <412F8701.7060509@crisscott.com> Phillip Powell wrote: > Sorry for the question but I need to ask this: Why would you want both > on the same machine? That makes no sense as far as application > development is concerned. Just have PHP 5 and write code that's > backwards-compatible. From my original post: "I want PHP4 to run as my CLI version of PHP (for PHP-GTK) and PHP5 to work with Apache." PHP-GTK won't run with PHP 5. PHP-GTK is run from the command line. I want to continue using PHP-GTK therefore I need PHP 4 on the command line. Scott From scott at crisscott.com Fri Aug 27 15:11:20 2004 From: scott at crisscott.com (Scott Mattocks) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:11:20 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Running PHP5 and PHP4 at the same time In-Reply-To: <20040827190842.GA24870@panix.com> References: <412F801E.6090006@crisscott.com> <20040827190842.GA24870@panix.com> Message-ID: <412F8758.1070204@crisscott.com> Daniel Convissor wrote: > I run 4 and 5 together all the time. Two separate directories. Both > are CGI, though, but that shouldn't make a difference. > Thanks Dan. I was hoping I could do it that way. Scott From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Fri Aug 27 15:21:43 2004 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:21:43 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Running PHP5 and PHP4 at the same time In-Reply-To: <412F8701.7060509@crisscott.com> References: <412F801E.6090006@crisscott.com> <008d01c48c67$dfbc8290$524a4044@codebowl> <412F857F.6020900@crisscott.com> <412F8777.2090105@adnet-sys.com> <412F8701.7060509@crisscott.com> Message-ID: <20040827192143.GA26990@panix.com> On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 03:09:53PM -0400, Scott Mattocks wrote: > > From my original post Silly Scott, reading is for kids. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409 From nd at lavertue.com Fri Aug 27 15:43:25 2004 From: nd at lavertue.com (Nathan Lavertue) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Can't debug error message... Message-ID: <12912.64.95.24.239.1093635805.spork@webmail.lavertue.com> I keep getting the following error messages with this very small PHP script I'm running. ---- Warning: Unknown: _oci_close_session OCIHandleAlloc OCI_HTYPE_SVCCTX: OCI_INVALID_HANDLE in Unknown on line 0 Warning: Unknown: _oci_close_session: OCIAttrSet OCI_ATTR_SERVER: OCI_INVALID_HANDLE in Unknown on line 0 Warning: Unknown: _oci_close_session: OCIAttrSet OCI_ATTR_SESSION: OCI_INVALID_HANDLE in Unknown on line 0 Warning: Unknown: _oci_close_session: OCISessionEnd: OCI_INVALID_HANDLE in Unknown on line 0 ---- ... here is a look at the script - http://dev.lavertue.com/nyphp/php_script.txt - pretty standard stuff, and i wasn't getting this error yesterday with the same file. thanks. .................. nd lavertue // .flash.soldier/pixel.terrorist. ................... lavertue.com // mutemuse.com ................... From jcrawford at codebowl.com Fri Aug 27 14:23:44 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 14:23:44 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP5 & IMAP Message-ID: <004501c48c62$fcc8fad0$524a4044@codebowl> Hello Everyone, I am trying to get my imap extension to work on my windows php install, i have uncommented the line extension=php_imap.dll and restarted apache about 10 times, for some reason phpinfo() is not showing imap, i checked the docs and i see that on linux it requires this This extension requires the c-client library to be installed. Grab the latest version from ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu/imap/ and compile it. i checked and didnt see any windows versions, i checked the windows directory however seems to just have Windows version of PINE. is there anything i need to install or do to make this work? Joe Crawford Jr. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tgales at tgaconnect.com Fri Aug 27 16:37:33 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:37:33 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Can't debug error message... In-Reply-To: <12912.64.95.24.239.1093635805.spork@webmail.lavertue.com> Message-ID: <003001c48c75$ae9948c0$e98d3818@oberon1> Nathan Lavertue writes: > Subject: [nycphp-talk] Can't debug error message... > > I keep getting the following error messages with this very > small PHP script I'm running. > > ---- > Warning: Unknown: _oci_close_session OCIHandleAlloc > OCI_HTYPE_SVCCTX: OCI_INVALID_HANDLE in Unknown on line 0 > > This looks like the Oracle extension is trying to tear down the connection to the database after the handle is already gone. That is, PHP is in the process of shutting down and PHP no longer knows what the name of the function that caused the problem is or the line number. You may be able to get some ideas about things to try by reading about register_shutdown_function() and 'Chapter 36. Connection handling' in the PHP manual. Do you currently have a function registered as a shutdown function? If you really get desperate you might consider tinkering around with ignoring user abort -- ignore_user_abort(). I don't know if you can write a function that can successfully determine why PHP feels it is time to shut down. That is, use connection_timeout() or connection_aborted (maybe in some combination with connection_status) and register it as a shutdown function in order to log the situation -- seems like it might be possible. T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From tgales at tgaconnect.com Fri Aug 27 17:04:33 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:04:33 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP5 & IMAP In-Reply-To: <004501c48c62$fcc8fad0$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <003101c48c79$7444bd90$e98d3818@oberon1> Joseph Crawford Jr. writes: I am trying to get my imap extension to work on my windows php install, i have uncommented the line extension=php_imap.dll ------- there's a directive 'extension_dir' which should describe where your 'php_imap.dll' resides. see PHP Initialization (a Phundamental) at: http://education.nyphp.org/phundamentals/PH_ini.php?expiredate=2/16/2004 for help with setting your 'ini' file. T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From dcech at phpwerx.net Fri Aug 27 17:15:43 2004 From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:15:43 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: OT: Possible to send email to _specific_ exchange server? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <412FA47F.5080608@phpwerx.net> maymay wrote: > Thank you all for the quick replies. > > From the responses to my question, I gather that there isn't a way to > explicitly state from *within a PHP script* that I want mail to go to a > specific mail exchange server. Is that accurate? No, only if you want to use builtin the 'mail' command. The functionality you are looking for is implemented in PHPMailer, which includes its own socket-based SMTP client. http://phpmailer.sourceforge.net/ Specifically look at the second example on this page: http://phpmailer.sourceforge.net/extending.html Dan From sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com Fri Aug 27 17:42:04 2004 From: sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:42:04 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: seeking comments on IBM ThinkPad T40 as portable development machine In-Reply-To: <412FA47F.5080608@phpwerx.net> References: <412FA47F.5080608@phpwerx.net> Message-ID: <3305-32349@sneakemail.com> I would appreciate comments from anyone with experience with the IBM Thinkpad T40. I am considering getting this as my on the road machine. It would dual boot XP/Suse, with LAMP installs on both platforms. Thanks. -=john andrews From mwithington at PLMresearch.com Fri Aug 27 17:46:42 2004 From: mwithington at PLMresearch.com (Mark Withington) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:46:42 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: seeking comments on IBM ThinkPad T40 as port abledevelopment machine Message-ID: <1F3CD8DDFB6A9B4C9B8DD06E4A7DE3586A6C5C@network.PLMresearch.com> I'm using an X20 with WAMP; Zend and Navicat. Works great. -------------------------- Mark L. Withington PLMresearch v: 508-746-2383 m: 508-801-0181 Calendar: http://www.plmresearch.com/calendar.php -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of inforequest Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 5:42 PM To: talk at lists.nyphp.org Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: seeking comments on IBM ThinkPad T40 as portabledevelopment machine I would appreciate comments from anyone with experience with the IBM Thinkpad T40. I am considering getting this as my on the road machine. It would dual boot XP/Suse, with LAMP installs on both platforms. Thanks. -=john andrews _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org From krook at us.ibm.com Fri Aug 27 17:52:33 2004 From: krook at us.ibm.com (Daniel Krook) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:52:33 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: seeking comments on IBM ThinkPad T40 as portable development machine In-Reply-To: <3305-32349@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: John, I use an IBM T41 as my primary workstation and it's great (surprise, surprise :).... but be ready for some quirks with IBM hardware, you might want to play around with one for a while to see if you mind... - Control key is in an odd postion to the right of the function key - There is no Windows key (meaning no W+M to minimize all windows or W+E to open the Explorer) - That "cat-tongue nugget" pointer can take some getting used to. Here are Rasmus Lerdorf's notes on the experience of getting one (in the family) and setting it up w/ Debian etc.: http://toys.lerdorf.com/archives/22_IBM+Thinkpad+T42p.html Daniel Krook, Application Developer WW Web Production Services North 2, ibm.com 1133 Westchester Avenue, White Plains, NY 10604 Personal: http://info.krook.org/ Persona: http://w3.ibm.com/eworkplace/persona_bp_finder.jsp?CNUM=9A9796897 From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Fri Aug 27 17:53:51 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:53:51 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: seeking comments on IBM ThinkPad T40 as portable development machine In-Reply-To: <3305-32349@sneakemail.com> References: <412FA47F.5080608@phpwerx.net> <3305-32349@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <412FAD6F.3060201@spacemonkeylabs.com> inforequest wrote: > I would appreciate comments from anyone with experience with the IBM > Thinkpad T40. I am considering getting this as my on the road machine. > It would dual boot XP/Suse, with LAMP installs on both platforms. Had one before I left Switzerland, and usaed it on travels ranging from Budapest to Hong Kong. I thought it was terribly ugly at first, but quickly grew attached to it as the frequent flier miles piled up. I immediately fdisked the machine and never saw Windows on it, but hear that it runs XP/2000 nicely ;-) -- Mitch From preinheimer at gmail.com Fri Aug 27 20:20:35 2004 From: preinheimer at gmail.com (Paul Reinheimer) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:20:35 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: seeking comments on IBM ThinkPad T40 as portable development machine In-Reply-To: <412FAD6F.3060201@spacemonkeylabs.com> References: <412FA47F.5080608@phpwerx.net> <3305-32349@sneakemail.com> <412FAD6F.3060201@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: <6ec19ec704082717203c2e85e4@mail.gmail.com> I was previously employed by a fortune 500, and we used IBM laptops exclusivly, no real tricks or anything, several IT guys had linux on their laptops and all seemed well. paul On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:53:51 -0400, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > inforequest wrote: > > > I would appreciate comments from anyone with experience with the IBM > > Thinkpad T40. I am considering getting this as my on the road machine. > > It would dual boot XP/Suse, with LAMP installs on both platforms. > > > Had one before I left Switzerland, and usaed it on travels ranging from > Budapest to Hong Kong. I thought it was terribly ugly at first, but > quickly grew attached to it as the frequent flier miles piled up. > > I immediately fdisked the machine and never saw Windows on it, but hear > that it runs XP/2000 nicely ;-) > > -- Mitch > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From IT at avp.org Fri Aug 27 20:16:18 2004 From: IT at avp.org (IT general account) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:16:18 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] automated response Message-ID: <10408272016.AA00105@mail.avp.org> In the interest of client safety and convenience, during the Republican National Convention?Monday, August 30th through Thursday, September 2nd?the Anti-Violence Project (AVP) will be moving its Crisis Intervention and Trauma Services as well as its Community Organizing and Outreach activities to the LGBT Center located at 208 West 13th Street (between 7th and Greenwich Avenues). Our hours of operation during that time will be from 10:00 am to 6:00 pm only. However, AVP?s 24/7 Bilingual Hotline will continue uninterrupted at 212-714-1184. Please visit our web site at www.avp.org for more detailed information. Because most staff will have limited access to email during the Convention, your message may not be answered until the AVP offices re-open on Friday, September 3rd at 10:00 am. Thank you for your support and cooperation during this time, and please know that we are terribly sorry for any inconvenience this temporary move may cause you. From john at coggeshall.org Fri Aug 27 20:31:50 2004 From: john at coggeshall.org (John Coggeshall) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:31:50 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Running PHP5 and PHP4 at the same time In-Reply-To: <412F801E.6090006@crisscott.com> References: <412F801E.6090006@crisscott.com> Message-ID: <1093653110.5299.0.camel@coogle.localdomain> http://wiki.coggeshall.org/Main/RunningPHP4AndPHP5Concurrently John On Fri, 2004-08-27 at 14:40, Scott Mattocks wrote: > Does anyone have any tips for getting PHP5 and 4 to run on the same > machine? I want PHP4 to run as my CLI version of PHP (for PHP-GTK) and > PHP5 to work with Apache. Is it as easy as just installing in two > different places? /usr/local/lib/php4 and /usr/local/lib/php? > > Thanks, > Scott Mattocks > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org -- -=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=- John Coggeshall http://www.coggeshall.org/ The PHP Developer's Handbook http://www.php-handbook.com/ -=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=--=~=- From susan_shemin at yahoo.com Fri Aug 27 23:20:59 2004 From: susan_shemin at yahoo.com (Susan Shemin) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] was Presentation URL--cross-browser In-Reply-To: <33319.69.86.84.8.1093535796.spork@webmail.ceruleansky.com> Message-ID: <20040828032059.45546.qmail@web53709.mail.yahoo.com> So many additional technologies for me to explore! And I though PHP and MySQL was enough. I really do like the XUL features, but they do seem more suited for an Intranet situation than for consumer websites. Thanks, Jay, for your detailed post. Susan --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chsnyder at gmail.com Sat Aug 28 11:59:47 2004 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 11:59:47 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Running PHP5 and PHP4 at the same time In-Reply-To: <1093653110.5299.0.camel@coogle.localdomain> References: <412F801E.6090006@crisscott.com> <1093653110.5299.0.camel@coogle.localdomain> Message-ID: Ahh, the proxy approach. Excellent solution, and having an Apache with mod_proxy available means that you can work all kinds of similar magic with other local and remote webservers. From chsnyder at gmail.com Sat Aug 28 12:20:55 2004 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:20:55 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] was Presentation URL--cross-browser In-Reply-To: <20040828032059.45546.qmail@web53709.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040828032059.45546.qmail@web53709.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If your application is compelling enough, people will be happy to switch to Mozilla or Firefox to use it. Look at all the people who downloaded Napster or Limewire. The bits of XUL that Jay touched on in his presentation are just the tip of the iceberg. Mozilla is a living, breathing, cross-platform GUI toolkit. It's not the sort of thing that you would use in place of traditional web applications -- but it might be where you turn when you run up against an application in the future that doesn't fit the usual internet or intranet mold. From gatzby3jr at gmail.com Sat Aug 28 13:27:05 2004 From: gatzby3jr at gmail.com (Brian O'Connor) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 13:27:05 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Projects Message-ID: <29da5d15040828102733de9745@mail.gmail.com> Hi I've been working with PHP now for close to 7 months now, and I feel the biggest obstacle for furthering my knowledge is lack of projects / sites to create. I've already worked with MySQL a lot, a little bit of PEAR, and worked a bit with OOP. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for projects that I do, or a strategy that I can use to learn different styles of php. Thanks. -- Brian O'Connor From sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com Sat Aug 28 14:14:46 2004 From: sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 14:14:46 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Projects In-Reply-To: <29da5d15040828102733de9745@mail.gmail.com> References: <29da5d15040828102733de9745@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32525-63223@sneakemail.com> Brian O'Connor gatzby3jr-at-gmail.com |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: >Hi I've been working with PHP now for close to 7 months now, and I >feel the biggest obstacle for furthering my knowledge is lack of >projects / sites to create. I've already worked with MySQL a lot, a >little bit of PEAR, and worked a bit with OOP. I was wondering if >anyone had any suggestions for projects that I do, or a strategy that >I can use to learn different styles of php. Thanks. > > Many people have enjoyed building forum software as a means of learning programming. Since the specifications are pretty well decided already, and there are projects to examine and compare your work to, it is educational. Since it is something that people actually use once they reach a basic level of utility, it is also kinda fun to develop and improve over time. Take a look at invision power board as an example of a PHP4 solution that serves it's user base well. You can use it and play with the source to your heart's content. Take a look at phpBB and all of the security alerts released over the past 2 years. Also adding role-based user authentication to any of these systems (or any CMS for that matter) is educational and useful. For example, integrating p_auth from NYPHP with a multi-product website (say, for example, a Mambo CMS portal with InvisionPowerBoard as a forum) in a way that is both modular and able to survive upgrades, would be challenging and useful. -=john andrews From jlacey at att.net Sat Aug 28 14:15:55 2004 From: jlacey at att.net (John Lacey) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:15:55 -0600 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Projects In-Reply-To: <29da5d15040828102733de9745@mail.gmail.com> References: <29da5d15040828102733de9745@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4130CBDB.8060105@att.net> Brian O'Connor wrote: > Hi I've been working with PHP now for close to 7 months now, and I > feel the biggest obstacle for furthering my knowledge is lack of > projects / sites to create. I've already worked with MySQL a lot, a > little bit of PEAR, and worked a bit with OOP. I was wondering if > anyone had any suggestions for projects that I do, or a strategy that > I can use to learn different styles of php. Thanks. Hi Brian, Well, I've been "off-project" for more than a year doing other things, so I can relate--however, I know a little bit about learning, so here's some advice that may help. As you've mentioned above, you want to be involved in a project, primarily for the learning it provides, and one of the most effective ways is being involved in one that you are motivated to work on because you have a need. The key here is a goal-oriented project rather than "this might be nice to learn" project. For example, a friend of mine needed a testing application for his credentialling organization a couple years ago. Of course, I looked for PHP/MySQL apps and discovered "phpTest", and spent a fair amount of time customizing and adding a few enhancements. I lucked out (learning-wise) since phpTest is very well written IMO, but needs some work to improve security, etc. A hacker by the name of Brandon Tallent wrote it when he was 20 or so. His stated goal was to make a test engine that was "the first choice of anyone who needed to test any subject". He said his second goal was to hack on and learn PHP and MySQL. So much for the motivation aspect. Now, as to projects, I am sometimes asked similar questions by my students and my first response is to work on something that you can be somewhat passionate and addicted to. Sorta the "one more thing before I go to bed" project. No one can tell you what that is. If you're looking for *ideas* (NOT necessarily well-coded scripts) you can look here: http://www.hotscripts.com/PHP/Scripts_and_Programs/index.html (remember, this site has a bit of a rep for schlock code, so "choose wisely") another great fishing ground for ideas is here: (same caution as above) http://freshmeat.net/browse/160/ and of course there's sourceforge: http://sourceforge.net/ and you can get some ideas here: http://www.zend.com/codex.php hope that helps, John From jcrawford at codebowl.com Sat Aug 28 14:25:37 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 14:25:37 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Projects References: <29da5d15040828102733de9745@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00bc01c48d2c$6abdfd50$524a4044@codebowl> Brian, I have a project up my sleeve that i am going to be working on, it is basically a forum but rather than only being a forum i am going to tightly couple it in with newsgroups. I plan to make it a news forum that when you go read a thread, you are actually reading messages on a news group. When you reply well.. your post get's sent to the news group. Sorta like Clew is doing with mailing lists i guess, i havent had much time to look over Clew. I havent seen anything like this before that is what is providing my motivation, that and i will learn a lot such as role based security, Patterns, OOP, reading news messages and connecting to and from a news server, Template based like smarty but i want to write my own to learn. If this sounds like a project you would like to help out with and have the time get back to me. Right now i havent had much time aside from work to do anything so i havent started the project yet, although i will be shortly. Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian O'Connor" To: Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 1:27 PM Subject: [nycphp-talk] Projects > Hi I've been working with PHP now for close to 7 months now, and I > feel the biggest obstacle for furthering my knowledge is lack of > projects / sites to create. I've already worked with MySQL a lot, a > little bit of PEAR, and worked a bit with OOP. I was wondering if > anyone had any suggestions for projects that I do, or a strategy that > I can use to learn different styles of php. Thanks. > -- > Brian O'Connor > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From brian at vermonster.com Sat Aug 28 14:21:30 2004 From: brian at vermonster.com (Brian Kaney) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 14:21:30 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Projects In-Reply-To: <29da5d15040828102733de9745@mail.gmail.com> References: <29da5d15040828102733de9745@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040828142130.g4c4ogow08sk404c@webmail.vermonster.com> Sometimes is the good to learn more about a language is just to look at it. High-quality code, like the modules in Pear, are a good place to start. Seeing how the code looks and how it is documented will help define a good style guide. Here is another frequently referenced coding style . Over at Horde , they have a concept that I really love...project bounties . People and/or companies sponsor new enhancements for a small cash reward. This is great in at least two ways: 1) the project evloves and 2) it gets more developers learning the codebase. I would really like to see this become part of Soureforge and/or Freshmeat. - Brian On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 Brian O'Connor wrote: > Hi I've been working with PHP now for close to 7 months now, and I > feel the biggest obstacle for furthering my knowledge is lack of > projects / sites to create. I've already worked with MySQL a lot, a > little bit of PEAR, and worked a bit with OOP. I was wondering if > anyone had any suggestions for projects that I do, or a strategy that > I can use to learn different styles of php. Thanks. > -- > Brian O'Connor From chsnyder at gmail.com Sat Aug 28 14:59:55 2004 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 14:59:55 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Projects In-Reply-To: <20040828142130.g4c4ogow08sk404c@webmail.vermonster.com> References: <29da5d15040828102733de9745@mail.gmail.com> <20040828142130.g4c4ogow08sk404c@webmail.vermonster.com> Message-ID: It seems like coding a CMS is a rite-of-passage, so perhaps you should consider that -- or as John suggested, a forum / bulletin-board. But rather than tackle a mega-project like that, a single, well-written PHP class (a la Pear but without the dependencies perhaps) makes a great project, especially if you write it in canonical PHP5 so it can serve as a roadmap to developers who haven't seen as much of the new syntax. Some things that might be fun/handy off the top of my head: - an implementation of the Atom api for web publishing - an implementation of scp (secure copy) (really, just an interface to the command line program) - a php class that provides an interface to Apache's Lucene indexer - an RSS feed agregator chris. From rolan at omnistep.com Sat Aug 28 15:42:41 2004 From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 15:42:41 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Projects In-Reply-To: <00bc01c48d2c$6abdfd50$524a4044@codebowl> References: <29da5d15040828102733de9745@mail.gmail.com> <00bc01c48d2c$6abdfd50$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <4130E031.8060304@omnistep.com> There is one on the net that works really well: http://news.google.com If you have a gmail account, you can post to the newsgroups as well. It's too bad they don't include alt.binaires.* ~Rolan Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: >Brian, > >I have a project up my sleeve that i am going to be working on, it is >basically a forum but rather than only being a forum i am going to tightly >couple it in with newsgroups. > >I plan to make it a news forum that when you go read a thread, you are >actually reading messages on a news group. When you reply well.. your post >get's sent to the news group. > > > > From rolan at omnistep.com Sat Aug 28 15:48:22 2004 From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 15:48:22 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Projects In-Reply-To: <4130E031.8060304@omnistep.com> References: <29da5d15040828102733de9745@mail.gmail.com> <00bc01c48d2c$6abdfd50$524a4044@codebowl> <4130E031.8060304@omnistep.com> Message-ID: <4130E186.6030007@omnistep.com> Just stubled across this: http://groups-beta.google.com/ Looks interesting. Similar in concept to how gmail works. ~Rolan Rolan Yang wrote: > There is one on the net that works really well: http://news.google.com > If you have a gmail account, you can post to the newsgroups as well. > It's too bad they don't include alt.binaires.* > > ~Rolan > > From susan_shemin at yahoo.com Sat Aug 28 17:24:29 2004 From: susan_shemin at yahoo.com (Susan Shemin) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 14:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] user authentication Message-ID: <20040828212429.49474.qmail@web53705.mail.yahoo.com> Can PHP4 user authentication be used with a web host (not your own web server)? I get errors when I use the code from my files on my web host. I have books that give the code, but the author usually says that php.ini needs to be altered, which of course I cannot do. I read that PHP5 has a new type of user authentication, but the tech at my web host says it will be at least 6 months to a year until they switch to have the "kinks" are ironed out first. Susan --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcrawford at codebowl.com Sat Aug 28 17:33:18 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 17:33:18 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Projects References: <29da5d15040828102733de9745@mail.gmail.com> <00bc01c48d2c$6abdfd50$524a4044@codebowl><4130E031.8060304@omnistep.com> <4130E186.6030007@omnistep.com> Message-ID: <000a01c48d46$a43c9f40$524a4044@codebowl> that looks nice, i wonder what language it is written in but then again i doubt the source will be available :( Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rolan Yang" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Projects > Just stubled across this: http://groups-beta.google.com/ > Looks interesting. Similar in concept to how gmail works. > > ~Rolan > > > Rolan Yang wrote: > > > There is one on the net that works really well: http://news.google.com > > If you have a gmail account, you can post to the newsgroups as well. > > It's too bad they don't include alt.binaires.* > > > > ~Rolan > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From jcrawford at codebowl.com Sat Aug 28 17:35:53 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 17:35:53 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] user authentication References: <20040828212429.49474.qmail@web53705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001f01c48d47$01145280$524a4044@codebowl> are the ini options anything you can change with ini_set? Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Shemin To: talk at lists.nyphp.org Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 5:24 PM Subject: [nycphp-talk] user authentication Can PHP4 user authentication be used with a web host (not your own web server)? I get errors when I use the code from my files on my web host. I have books that give the code, but the author usually says that php.ini needs to be altered, which of course I cannot do. I read that PHP5 has a new type of user authentication, but the tech at my web host says it will be at least 6 months to a year until they switch to have the "kinks" are ironed out first. Susan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chsnyder at gmail.com Sat Aug 28 17:40:50 2004 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 17:40:50 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Projects In-Reply-To: <000a01c48d46$a43c9f40$524a4044@codebowl> References: <29da5d15040828102733de9745@mail.gmail.com> <00bc01c48d2c$6abdfd50$524a4044@codebowl><4130E031.8060304@omnistep.com> <4130E186.6030007@omnistep.com> <000a01c48d46$a43c9f40$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: Well, obviously it's written in Googlish! ;-) All kidding aside, the source code for the user interface is available -- and it's the user interface (xhtml+css+javascript) of the new Google apps that really rocks. From shiflett at php.net Sat Aug 28 17:53:29 2004 From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 14:53:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] user authentication In-Reply-To: <20040828212429.49474.qmail@web53705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040828215329.74400.qmail@web52802.mail.yahoo.com> --- Susan Shemin wrote: > Can PHP4 user authentication be used with a web host (not your > own web server)? Yes, but this question is more vague than you might think. Can you describe the method of authentication that you want to perform? Chris ===== Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ PHP Security - O'Reilly Coming Fall 2004 HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams http://httphandbook.org/ PHP Community Site http://phpcommunity.org/ From sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com Sat Aug 28 18:44:00 2004 From: sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 18:44:00 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Projects In-Reply-To: References: <29da5d15040828102733de9745@mail.gmail.com> <00bc01c48d2c$6abdfd50$524a4044@codebowl><4130E031.8060304@omnistep.com> <4130E186.6030007@omnistep.com> <000a01c48d46$a43c9f40$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <9582-16281@sneakemail.com> csnyder chsnyder-at-gmail.com |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: >Well, obviously it's written in Googlish! ;-) > >All kidding aside, the source code for the user interface is available >-- and it's the user interface (xhtml+css+javascript) of the new >Google apps that really rocks. >_______________________________________________ > > Well, something had better rock because the content sure doesn't! It seems Google is grabbing anything it can stick ads onto these days. But I guess newsgroups might be a pretty attractive challenge for the PhD's... it looks like they are doing a straight text-match in this beta. Stemming is off, no synonyms, tons and tons of keyword spam in the results set. What exactly is so interesting about the user interface? -=john From cwf at axlotl.net Sat Aug 28 19:08:38 2004 From: cwf at axlotl.net (chris feldmann) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 19:08:38 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Projects Message-ID: <41311076.2070904@axlotl.net> See if you can think of something that would be useful for you to use, some internet tool. My not very imaginative answer when I asked myself the same question was an email client. I had accounts scattered across the various webhosts I'd rented space from, or inherited control of a site on. So I wrote a PHP email client that could easily hop from account to account. So there's network programming, oop when you deal with the objects the imap functions return, databases, maybe, to store mail or at least logon data. Then later others started using it, so there's sessions, cookies, what have you. People complain about the gmail interface, but if I have a problem with my webmail interface, I just change it to suit my needs. Anyway, it's a not too big (but can get very big, if you want) little project. -chris > >Hi I've been working with PHP now for close to 7 months now, and I >feel the biggest obstacle for furthering my knowledge is lack of >projects / sites to create. I've already worked with MySQL a lot, a >little bit of PEAR, and worked a bit with OOP. I was wondering if >anyone had any suggestions for projects that I do, or a strategy that >I can use to learn different styles of php. Thanks. > From joshmccormack at travelersdiary.com Sat Aug 28 20:00:49 2004 From: joshmccormack at travelersdiary.com (Josh McCormack) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 20:00:49 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Projects In-Reply-To: <00bc01c48d2c$6abdfd50$524a4044@codebowl> References: <29da5d15040828102733de9745@mail.gmail.com> <00bc01c48d2c$6abdfd50$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <41311CB1.8060405@travelersdiary.com> FUDforum (http://fudforum.org/forum/) has "NNTP & Mailing List integration, allowing FUDforum to be used to archive newsgroups & mailing lists, as well as allow forum members to post messages to newsgroups and mailing lists via the forum." Josh Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > Brian, > > I have a project up my sleeve that i am going to be working on, it is > basically a forum but rather than only being a forum i am going to tightly > couple it in with newsgroups. > > I plan to make it a news forum that when you go read a thread, you are > actually reading messages on a news group. When you reply well.. your post > get's sent to the news group. > > Sorta like Clew is doing with mailing lists i guess, i havent had much time > to look over Clew. > > I havent seen anything like this before that is what is providing my > motivation, that and i will learn a lot such as role based security, > Patterns, OOP, reading news messages and connecting to and from a news > server, Template based like smarty but i want to write my own to learn. > > If this sounds like a project you would like to help out with and have the > time get back to me. > > Right now i havent had much time aside from work to do anything so i havent > started the project yet, although i will be shortly. > > Joe Crawford Jr. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian O'Connor" > To: > Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 1:27 PM > Subject: [nycphp-talk] Projects > > > >>Hi I've been working with PHP now for close to 7 months now, and I >>feel the biggest obstacle for furthering my knowledge is lack of >>projects / sites to create. I've already worked with MySQL a lot, a >>little bit of PEAR, and worked a bit with OOP. I was wondering if >>anyone had any suggestions for projects that I do, or a strategy that >>I can use to learn different styles of php. Thanks. >>-- >>Brian O'Connor >>_______________________________________________ >>New York PHP Talk >>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>http://www.newyorkphp.org >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Sat Aug 28 20:10:07 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 20:10:07 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Projects In-Reply-To: <29da5d15040828102733de9745@mail.gmail.com> References: <29da5d15040828102733de9745@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41311EDF.6030603@spacemonkeylabs.com> Brian O'Connor wrote: >Hi I've been working with PHP now for close to 7 months now, and I >feel the biggest obstacle for furthering my knowledge is lack of >projects / sites to create. I've already worked with MySQL a lot, a >little bit of PEAR, and worked a bit with OOP. I was wondering if >anyone had any suggestions for projects that I do, or a strategy that >I can use to learn different styles of php. Thanks. > > You know what I think would give you the most inspiration? Pick something you are very interested in, and build an application to help you organize your information. So if you like food, build a recipe website, if you are into football, then build a sports portal. More important than the purpose of the tool, make sure you: * use a distributed version control system (cvs, subversion) * use existing classes for common tasks (ADOdb, PEAR, jpgraph, etc.) * include multilingual support (a.k.a. "i18n") * separate code into separate scripts not just for function, but to support multiple developers * include XML-RPC to support external, non-PHP clients These will go a long way getting you into the right frame of mind to write really exceptional code, and also accommodate other interested parties on the Internet - as well as have some room for expansion. You will be simply amazed at how great it feels when you start something that takes on a life of its own, and you will learn a great deal more from that experience than you ever could by just writing an academic exercise. -- Mitch From gatzby3jr at gmail.com Sat Aug 28 21:14:23 2004 From: gatzby3jr at gmail.com (Brian O'Connor) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:14:23 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Projects In-Reply-To: <41311EDF.6030603@spacemonkeylabs.com> References: <29da5d15040828102733de9745@mail.gmail.com> <41311EDF.6030603@spacemonkeylabs.com> Message-ID: <29da5d15040828181474c75f81@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for the replies, I've gotten a lot of ideas from everyone, and I plan in one way or another to use all of them. On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 20:10:07 -0400, Mitch Pirtle wrote: > > > Brian O'Connor wrote: > > >Hi I've been working with PHP now for close to 7 months now, and I > >feel the biggest obstacle for furthering my knowledge is lack of > >projects / sites to create. I've already worked with MySQL a lot, a > >little bit of PEAR, and worked a bit with OOP. I was wondering if > >anyone had any suggestions for projects that I do, or a strategy that > >I can use to learn different styles of php. Thanks. > > > > > > You know what I think would give you the most inspiration? Pick > something you are very interested in, and build an application to help > you organize your information. So if you like food, build a recipe > website, if you are into football, then build a sports portal. More > important than the purpose of the tool, make sure you: > > * use a distributed version control system (cvs, subversion) > * use existing classes for common tasks (ADOdb, PEAR, jpgraph, etc.) > * include multilingual support (a.k.a. "i18n") > * separate code into separate scripts not just for function, but to > support multiple developers > * include XML-RPC to support external, non-PHP clients > > These will go a long way getting you into the right frame of mind to > write really exceptional code, and also accommodate other interested > parties on the Internet - as well as have some room for expansion. You > will be simply amazed at how great it feels when you start something > that takes on a life of its own, and you will learn a great deal more > from that experience than you ever could by just writing an academic > exercise. > > -- Mitch > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > -- Brian O'Connor From susan_shemin at yahoo.com Sat Aug 28 22:32:36 2004 From: susan_shemin at yahoo.com (Susan Shemin) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 19:32:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] user authentication In-Reply-To: <001f01c48d47$01145280$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <20040829023236.20250.qmail@web53705.mail.yahoo.com> Is ini_set a value inside of the PHP code? I have no access to the server's code at my web host. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcrawford at codebowl.com Sat Aug 28 22:36:53 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:36:53 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] user authentication References: <20040829023236.20250.qmail@web53705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003201c48d71$0b99b4a0$524a4044@codebowl> www.php.net/ini_set Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Shemin To: NYPHP Talk Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] user authentication Is ini_set a value inside of the PHP code? I have no access to the server's code at my web host. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ New York PHP Talk Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk http://www.newyorkphp.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susan_shemin at yahoo.com Sat Aug 28 22:42:02 2004 From: susan_shemin at yahoo.com (Susan Shemin) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 19:42:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] user authentication In-Reply-To: <20040828215329.74400.qmail@web52802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040829024202.21621.qmail@web53705.mail.yahoo.com> The code I'm trying to implement is via HTTP Authentication, and the book talks about configuring the Apache httpd.conf file which I do not have access to. (PHP Essentials by Julie C. Meloni) I can set up the user authentication from the database itself, but I'm not sure how secure it is. Are there other methods of user authentication? Ah, then I need to tackle the session management. Susan --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkarlen at infoniq.com Sat Aug 28 22:44:19 2004 From: jkarlen at infoniq.com (Jonathan R. Karlen) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:44:19 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] user authentication In-Reply-To: <20040829024202.21621.qmail@web53705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00ce01c48d72$15686d90$0200a8c0@PINSTRIPE> Depending on your ISP you can use a .htaccess to set httpd.conf variables. You'll need shell access to run htpasswd. http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.1/howto/htaccess.html *********************************** Jonathan R. Karlen President/Senior Developer Infoniq E-Business Solutions, Inc. jkarlen at infoniq.com (914)-630-4509 http://www.infoniq.com/ -----Original Message----- From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Susan Shemin Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 10:42 PM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] user authentication The code I'm trying to implement is via HTTP Authentication, and the book talks about configuring the Apache httpd.conf file which I do not have access to. (PHP Essentials by Julie C. Meloni) I can set up the user authentication from the database itself, but I'm not sure how secure it is. Are there other methods of user authentication? Ah, then I need to tackle the session management. Susan _____ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shiflett at php.net Sat Aug 28 23:09:31 2004 From: shiflett at php.net (Chris Shiflett) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 20:09:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] user authentication In-Reply-To: <20040829024202.21621.qmail@web53705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040829030932.29757.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> --- Susan Shemin wrote: > The code I'm trying to implement is via HTTP Authentication, and the > book talks about configuring the Apache httpd.conf file which I do not > have access to. (PHP Essentials by Julie C. Meloni) Ahhh, OK. HTTP Basic Authentication can be done with PHP: http://www.php.net/manual/en/features.http-auth.php This is probably the easiest way to implement this, but if you want to apply HTTP Basic Authentication to an entire directory, you can use a .htaccess file. Just create a file by this name, and you can put Apache configuration directives inside (just as if you were editing httpd.conf). Hope that helps. Chris ===== Chris Shiflett - http://shiflett.org/ PHP Security - O'Reilly Coming Fall 2004 HTTP Developer's Handbook - Sams http://httphandbook.org/ PHP Community Site http://phpcommunity.org/ From mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com Sat Aug 28 23:54:56 2004 From: mitchy at spacemonkeylabs.com (Mitch Pirtle) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 23:54:56 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] user authentication In-Reply-To: <20040829030932.29757.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040829030932.29757.qmail@web52808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41315390.4080209@spacemonkeylabs.com> Chris Shiflett wrote: >Ahhh, OK. HTTP Basic Authentication can be done with PHP: > >http://www.php.net/manual/en/features.http-auth.php > >This is probably the easiest way to implement this, but if you want to >apply HTTP Basic Authentication to an entire directory, you can use a >.htaccess file. Just create a file by this name, and you can put Apache >configuration directives inside (just as if you were editing httpd.conf). > You could also bypass apache altogether and use PEAR::Auth, or PEAR::Auth_HTTP: http://pear.php.net/manual/en/package.authentication.php I use PEAR::AUTH as often as possible, as it is pretty powerful (and easy to use). -- Mitch From hans at nyphp.com Sun Aug 29 10:00:35 2004 From: hans at nyphp.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 07:00:35 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: seeking comments on IBM ThinkPad T40 as portable development machine Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8703E145B0@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> > I would appreciate comments from anyone with experience with the IBM > Thinkpad T40. I am considering getting this as my on the road machine. > It would dual boot XP/Suse, with LAMP installs on both platforms. I've got a T40 and wouldn't trade it for anything - well, except a T42 :) They can be a little quirky (like the hard drives) but overall it's great. H From hans at nyphp.com Sun Aug 29 12:29:45 2004 From: hans at nyphp.com (Hans Zaunere) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 09:29:45 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] FW: LAMP & Department of Homeland Security's ERN Message-ID: <41EE526EC2D3C74286415780D3BA9F8703E145D6@ehost011-1.exch011.intermedia.net> Good stuff... enterprise ready.. > Two articles about MySQL being used in the Department of Homeland Security's > critical Emergency Response Network: > > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7738 > > > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7735 > > > http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7726 > From ppinto at aaahawk.com Sun Aug 29 14:28:17 2004 From: ppinto at aaahawk.com (Peter) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:28:17 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] talk list digest format changed Message-ID: <004401c48df5$f51bf2d0$e4df3f40@hirom> I am on the talk list and used to get all emails inline (digest i.e.). . AS of today I get all digest email fro tall list as topic plus attachments. To me this is a real pain in the *ss. Before I could simply scroll thru all messages, now i have to click each attachment. Have any changes been done to mailman? I use OE 6. Pete -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tgales at tgaconnect.com Sun Aug 29 17:56:10 2004 From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 17:56:10 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Gmane bidrectional mail 2 news gateway was: Projects In-Reply-To: <00bc01c48d2c$6abdfd50$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <003301c48e12$ff4ae370$e98d3818@oberon1> Joseph Crawford Jr. writes: > > I have a project up my sleeve that i am going to be working > on, it is basically a forum but rather than only being a > forum i am going to tightly couple it in with newsgroups. > > I plan to make it a news forum that when you go read a > thread, you are actually reading messages on a news group. > When you reply well.. your post get's sent to the news group. > > Sorta like Clew is doing with mailing lists i guess, i havent > had much time to look over Clew. > > I havent seen anything like this before that is what is > providing my motivation, that and i will learn a lot such as > role based security, Patterns, OOP, reading news messages and > connecting to and from a news server, Template based like > smarty but i want to write my own to learn. You might be interested in looking at the following: http://gmane.org/ T. Gales & Associates 'Helping People Connect with Technology' http://www.tgaconnect.com From phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com Mon Aug 30 12:44:15 2004 From: phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com (Phillip Powell) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:44:15 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] user authentication In-Reply-To: <20040829024202.21621.qmail@web53705.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040829024202.21621.qmail@web53705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4133595F.3030708@adnet-sys.com> This is mainly for Joe and Susan since both of them seemed to have worked with PHP and HTTP Authentication, maybe they'll be able to discern this problem. I wrote an HTTP authentication function authenticate(). However, you are being forced to log in twice every time you use this function, and I honestly can't figure this out. This might make things easier to understand: This is index.php: /*------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Authentication Block - this block will determine whether or not user has logged in or has successfully logged in by checking: 1) IP address against stored value in project_globals.inc.php 2) Cookie for $projectFolderName 3) If they have remained in the utility or have gone elsewhere - then cookie should be overwritten New 5/20/2004: User-defined variable $willUseSSL generated into project_global_plugin.inc.php will be a Boolean to determine if the there will need to be an SSL layer for the unauthenticated IVC. If the user has not yet logged in and chose to set $willUseSSL to true in the installation, the script will redirect to an SSL layer and ask for authentication. A check is also done to ensure that if the user is logged in yet remains in an SSL layer, they will be redirected out to ensure full IVC functionality. New 5/20/2004: The cookie with key of $projectFolderName will be checked first to bypass the unnecessary instantiation of LoginSessionGenerator for performance enhancement. If the user logged in, the cookie exists and no need to check further. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/ if (($willAuthenticate || $willBasicAuthenticate) && $_COOKIE["$projectFolderName"]) $isLoggedIn = true; // NECESSARY FOR SSL-TO-NONSSL REDIRECTION if (($willAuthenticate || $willBasicAuthenticate) && !$_COOKIE["$projectFolderName"]) { $errorArray = array(); $lsg =& new LoginSessionGenerator(); $lsg->handleLogin(); $errorArray += $lsg->getErrorArray(); $isLoggedIn = $lsg->isLoggedIn; } if ($_COOKIE["$projectFolderName"] || (($willAuthenticate || $willBasicAuthenticate) && $isLoggedIn) || !($willAuthenticate || $willBasicAuthenticate)) { $authBool = true; } else { $authBool = false; } if ($willAuthenticate || $willBasicAuthenticate) $lsg = null; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the class LoginSessionGenerator method handleLogin() in classes.inc.php: /** * Check for login status either through WWW Basic Authentication (if $willBasicAuthenticate is true) or via IP verification * * @access public */ function handleLogin() { // VOID METHOD global $willBasicAuthenticate; if (!$this->isLoggedIn && $willBasicAuthenticate) $this->isLoggedIn = authenticate(); if (!$this->isLoggedIn) { $this->validate(); // SEE IF THEY HAVE ALREADY LOGGED IN if (!$this->isLoggedIn && !$this->cannotLogin) $this->check(); // CHECK TO SEE IF LOGIN PROCESS USER ENTERED IS VALID if (!$this->isLoggedIn && !$this->cannotLogin) $this->displayLoginHTML(); // DISPLAY LOGIN HTML INNER TEMPLATE VIEW } } --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is authenticate() in functions.inc.php: /*-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This function will utilize the ability to use HTTP-based WWW Authentication, checking for the global authorized password against the password entered in the client project's CSV file. Will not function unless this password exists. See http://www.php.net/manual/en/features.http-auth.php for more info ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*/ if (!function_exists('authenticate')) { // FUTURISTIC: IN CASE AN "authenticate" PHP FUNCTION IS MADE PART OF CORE IN THE FUTURE function authenticate() { global $username, $password, $projectFullName; if ($password && preg_match('/IIS/i', $_SERVER['SERVER_SOFTWARE']) && $_SERVER['HTTP_AUTHORIZATION']) { list($user, $pw) = explode(':', base64_decode(substr($_SERVER['HTTP_AUTHORIZATION'], 6))); if ($user === $username && $pw === $password) return true; // AUTHENTICATION SUCCESSFUL WITHIN IIS WITH ISAPI } if ($_SERVER['PHP_AUTH_USER'] && $password && $_SERVER['PHP_AUTH_USER'] === $username && $_SERVER['PHP_AUTH_PW'] === $password ) return true; if ($password) { header("WWW-Authenticate: Basic realm=\"$projectFullName\""); header('HTTP/1.0 401 Unauthorized'); echo "You must enter a valid login ID and password to access the $projectFullName\n"; exit; } } } Susan Shemin wrote: > The code I'm trying to implement is via HTTP Authentication, and the > book talks about configuring the Apache httpd.conf file which I do not > have access to. (PHP Essentials by Julie C. Meloni) > > I can set up the user authentication from the database itself, but I'm > not sure how secure it is. > > Are there other methods of user authentication? Ah, then I need to > tackle the session management. > > Susan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail > > - Send 10MB messages! > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phil Powell Multimedia Programmer BPX Technologies, Inc. #: (703) 709-7218 x107 Fax: (703) 709-7219 From dorgan at optonline.net Mon Aug 30 15:28:02 2004 From: dorgan at optonline.net (Donald J. Organ IV) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:28:02 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] user authentication References: <20040829024202.21621.qmail@web53705.mail.yahoo.com> <4133595F.3030708@adnet-sys.com> Message-ID: <002501c48ec7$77969590$07020a0a@dj> can we see the function?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phillip Powell" To: "NYPHP Talk" Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] user authentication > This is mainly for Joe and Susan since both of them seemed to have > worked with PHP and HTTP Authentication, maybe they'll be able to > discern this problem. > > I wrote an HTTP authentication function authenticate(). However, you > are being forced to log in twice every time you use this function, and I > honestly can't figure this out. > > This might make things easier to understand: > > This is index.php: > > /*-------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- > > > Authentication Block - this block will determine whether or not > user has logged in or has successfully logged in by checking: > > 1) IP address against stored value in project_globals.inc.php > 2) Cookie for $projectFolderName > 3) If they have remained in the utility or have gone elsewhere - > then cookie should be overwritten > New 5/20/2004: User-defined variable $willUseSSL generated into > project_global_plugin.inc.php will be a Boolean to > determine if the there will need to be an SSL layer for the > unauthenticated IVC. If the user has not yet logged in and > chose to set $willUseSSL to true in the installation, the script > will redirect to an SSL layer and ask for authentication. A > check is also done to ensure that if the user is logged in yet > remains in an SSL layer, they will be redirected out to ensure > full IVC functionality. > > New 5/20/2004: The cookie with key of $projectFolderName will be > checked first to bypass the unnecessary instantiation of > LoginSessionGenerator for performance enhancement. If the user > logged in, the cookie exists and no need to check further. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------*/ > > if (($willAuthenticate || $willBasicAuthenticate) && > $_COOKIE["$projectFolderName"]) $isLoggedIn = true; // NECESSARY FOR > SSL-TO-NONSSL REDIRECTION > > if (($willAuthenticate || $willBasicAuthenticate) && > !$_COOKIE["$projectFolderName"]) { > $errorArray = array(); > $lsg =& new LoginSessionGenerator(); > $lsg->handleLogin(); > $errorArray += $lsg->getErrorArray(); > $isLoggedIn = $lsg->isLoggedIn; > } > > if ($_COOKIE["$projectFolderName"] || (($willAuthenticate || > $willBasicAuthenticate) && $isLoggedIn) || !($willAuthenticate || > $willBasicAuthenticate)) { > $authBool = true; > } else { > $authBool = false; > } > > if ($willAuthenticate || $willBasicAuthenticate) $lsg = null; > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- > > > This is the class LoginSessionGenerator method handleLogin() in > classes.inc.php: > > /** > * Check for login status either through WWW Basic Authentication (if > $willBasicAuthenticate is true) or via IP verification > * > * @access public > */ > function handleLogin() { // VOID METHOD > global $willBasicAuthenticate; > if (!$this->isLoggedIn && $willBasicAuthenticate) > $this->isLoggedIn = authenticate(); > if (!$this->isLoggedIn) { > $this->validate(); > // SEE IF THEY HAVE ALREADY LOGGED IN > if (!$this->isLoggedIn && !$this->cannotLogin) > $this->check(); // CHECK TO SEE IF LOGIN PROCESS USER > ENTERED IS VALID > if (!$this->isLoggedIn && !$this->cannotLogin) > $this->displayLoginHTML(); // DISPLAY LOGIN HTML INNER TEMPLATE VIEW > } > } > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- > > > This is authenticate() in functions.inc.php: > > /*-------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ > > This function will utilize the ability to use HTTP-based WWW > Authentication, checking for the global authorized password against > the password entered in the client project's CSV file. Will not > function > unless this password exists. > See http://www.php.net/manual/en/features.http-auth.php for more > info > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------*/ > > if (!function_exists('authenticate')) { // FUTURISTIC: IN > CASE AN "authenticate" PHP FUNCTION IS MADE PART OF CORE IN THE FUTURE > function authenticate() { > global $username, $password, $projectFullName; > if ($password && preg_match('/IIS/i', $_SERVER['SERVER_SOFTWARE']) && > $_SERVER['HTTP_AUTHORIZATION']) { > list($user, $pw) = explode(':', > base64_decode(substr($_SERVER['HTTP_AUTHORIZATION'], 6))); > if ($user === $username && $pw === $password) return true; // > AUTHENTICATION SUCCESSFUL WITHIN IIS WITH ISAPI > } > if ($_SERVER['PHP_AUTH_USER'] && $password && > $_SERVER['PHP_AUTH_USER'] === $username && > $_SERVER['PHP_AUTH_PW'] === $password > ) return true; > if ($password) { > header("WWW-Authenticate: Basic realm=\"$projectFullName\""); > header('HTTP/1.0 401 Unauthorized'); > echo "You must enter a valid login ID and password to access the > $projectFullName\n"; > exit; > } > } > } > > Susan Shemin wrote: > > > The code I'm trying to implement is via HTTP Authentication, and the > > book talks about configuring the Apache httpd.conf file which I do not > > have access to. (PHP Essentials by Julie C. Meloni) > > > > I can set up the user authentication from the database itself, but I'm > > not sure how secure it is. > > > > Are there other methods of user authentication? Ah, then I need to > > tackle the session management. > > > > Susan > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail > > > > - Send 10MB messages! > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >_______________________________________________ > >New York PHP Talk > >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > >http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > > > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Phil Powell > Multimedia Programmer > BPX Technologies, Inc. > #: (703) 709-7218 x107 > Fax: (703) 709-7219 > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org From list at harveyk.com Mon Aug 30 15:32:17 2004 From: list at harveyk.com (harvey) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:32:17 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Email Signup Script Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040830153210.04468650@mail.earthlink.net> Hello NYPHP, Does anyone know where I might find a simple "email signup" script? Basically, someone comes to the site, signs up their email address, and then gets an email with a confirmation link. When they click on that link, the fact that the email address was confirmed is recorded in the database. That's all I really need. I know there are full-fledged systems that do much more than that, but all I really need is this piece (if possible). I checked Sourceforge and also Googled, but didn't find much. Simple to read through and understand would be great too. Any ideas? Thanks! Harvey From list at harveyk.com Mon Aug 30 15:32:27 2004 From: list at harveyk.com (harvey) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:32:27 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Email Signup Script Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040830135146.044c4810@mail.earthlink.net> Hello NYPHP, Does anyone know where I might find a simple "email signup" script? Basically, someone comes to the site, signs up their email address, and then gets an email with a confirmation link. When they click on that link, the fact that the email address was confirmed is recorded in the database. That's all I really need. I know there are full-fledged systems that do much more than that, but all I really need is this piece (if possible). I checked Sourceforge and also Googled, but didn't find much. Simple to read through and understand would be great too. Any ideas? Thanks! Harvey From jcrawford at codebowl.com Mon Aug 30 15:34:30 2004 From: jcrawford at codebowl.com (Joseph Crawford Jr.) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:34:30 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Email Signup Script References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040830153210.04468650@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <001a01c48ec8$5ec049c0$524a4044@codebowl> this would be simple to create read up on the mail() function and also read up on the $_GET variables very very easy to make this script. Joe Crawford Jr. ----- Original Message ----- From: "harvey" To: "nyphp" Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 3:32 PM Subject: [nycphp-talk] Email Signup Script > Hello NYPHP, > Does anyone know where I might find a simple "email signup" script? > Basically, someone comes to the site, signs up their email address, and > then gets an email with a confirmation link. When they click on that link, > the fact that the email address was confirmed is recorded in the database. > That's all I really need. I know there are full-fledged systems that do > much more than that, but all I really need is this piece (if possible). I > checked Sourceforge and also Googled, but didn't find much. Simple to read > through and understand would be great too. Any ideas? > Thanks! > Harvey > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > > From phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com Mon Aug 30 15:40:38 2004 From: phillip.powell at adnet-sys.com (Phillip Powell) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:40:38 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] user authentication In-Reply-To: <002501c48ec7$77969590$07020a0a@dj> References: <20040829024202.21621.qmail@web53705.mail.yahoo.com> <4133595F.3030708@adnet-sys.com> <002501c48ec7$77969590$07020a0a@dj> Message-ID: <413382B6.5010504@adnet-sys.com> It's at the bottom, and here: if (!function_exists('authenticate')) { // FUTURISTIC: IN CASE AN "authenticate" PHP FUNCTION IS MADE PART OF CORE IN THE FUTURE function authenticate() { global $username, $password, $projectFullName; if ($password && preg_match('/IIS/i', $_SERVER['SERVER_SOFTWARE']) && $_SERVER['HTTP_AUTHORIZATION']) { list($user, $pw) = explode(':', base64_decode(substr($_SERVER['HTTP_AUTHORIZATION'], 6))); if ($user === $username && $pw === $password) return true; // AUTHENTICATION SUCCESSFUL WITHIN IIS WITH ISAPI } if ($_SERVER['PHP_AUTH_USER'] && $password && $_SERVER['PHP_AUTH_USER'] === $username && $_SERVER['PHP_AUTH_PW'] === $password ) return true; if ($password) { header("WWW-Authenticate: Basic realm=\"$projectFullName\""); header('HTTP/1.0 401 Unauthorized'); echo "You must enter a valid login ID and password to access the $projectFullName\n"; exit; } } } Phil Donald J. Organ IV wrote: >can we see the function?? > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Phillip Powell" >To: "NYPHP Talk" >Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 12:44 PM >Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] user authentication > > > > >>This is mainly for Joe and Susan since both of them seemed to have >>worked with PHP and HTTP Authentication, maybe they'll be able to >>discern this problem. >> >>I wrote an HTTP authentication function authenticate(). However, you >>are being forced to log in twice every time you use this function, and I >>honestly can't figure this out. >> >>This might make things easier to understand: >> >>This is index.php: >> >> >> >> >/*-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------------- > > >> Authentication Block - this block will determine whether or not >>user has logged in or has successfully logged in by checking: >> >> 1) IP address against stored value in project_globals.inc.php >> 2) Cookie for $projectFolderName >> 3) If they have remained in the utility or have gone elsewhere - >>then cookie should be overwritten >> New 5/20/2004: User-defined variable $willUseSSL generated into >>project_global_plugin.inc.php will be a Boolean to >> determine if the there will need to be an SSL layer for the >>unauthenticated IVC. If the user has not yet logged in and >> chose to set $willUseSSL to true in the installation, the script >>will redirect to an SSL layer and ask for authentication. A >> check is also done to ensure that if the user is logged in yet >>remains in an SSL layer, they will be redirected out to ensure >> full IVC functionality. >> >> New 5/20/2004: The cookie with key of $projectFolderName will be >>checked first to bypass the unnecessary instantiation of >> LoginSessionGenerator for performance enhancement. If the user >>logged in, the cookie exists and no need to check further. >> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--------------*/ > > >> if (($willAuthenticate || $willBasicAuthenticate) && >>$_COOKIE["$projectFolderName"]) $isLoggedIn = true; // NECESSARY FOR >>SSL-TO-NONSSL REDIRECTION >> >> if (($willAuthenticate || $willBasicAuthenticate) && >>!$_COOKIE["$projectFolderName"]) { >> $errorArray = array(); >> $lsg =& new LoginSessionGenerator(); >> $lsg->handleLogin(); >> $errorArray += $lsg->getErrorArray(); >> $isLoggedIn = $lsg->isLoggedIn; >> } >> >> if ($_COOKIE["$projectFolderName"] || (($willAuthenticate || >>$willBasicAuthenticate) && $isLoggedIn) || !($willAuthenticate || >>$willBasicAuthenticate)) { >> $authBool = true; >> } else { >> $authBool = false; >> } >> >> if ($willAuthenticate || $willBasicAuthenticate) $lsg = null; >> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >-------------- > > >>This is the class LoginSessionGenerator method handleLogin() in >>classes.inc.php: >> >> /** >> * Check for login status either through WWW Basic Authentication (if >>$willBasicAuthenticate is true) or via IP verification >> * >> * @access public >> */ >> function handleLogin() { // VOID METHOD >> global $willBasicAuthenticate; >> if (!$this->isLoggedIn && $willBasicAuthenticate) >>$this->isLoggedIn = authenticate(); >> if (!$this->isLoggedIn) { >> $this->validate(); >> // SEE IF THEY HAVE ALREADY LOGGED IN >> if (!$this->isLoggedIn && !$this->cannotLogin) >>$this->check(); // CHECK TO SEE IF LOGIN PROCESS USER >>ENTERED IS VALID >> if (!$this->isLoggedIn && !$this->cannotLogin) >>$this->displayLoginHTML(); // DISPLAY LOGIN HTML INNER TEMPLATE VIEW >> } >> } >> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >------------------------------------------- > > >>This is authenticate() in functions.inc.php: >> >> >> >> >/*-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------------------ > > >> This function will utilize the ability to use HTTP-based WWW >> Authentication, checking for the global authorized password against >> the password entered in the client project's CSV file. Will not >>function >> unless this password exists. >> See http://www.php.net/manual/en/features.http-auth.php for more >> info >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >-------------------*/ > > >>if (!function_exists('authenticate')) { // FUTURISTIC: IN >>CASE AN "authenticate" PHP FUNCTION IS MADE PART OF CORE IN THE FUTURE >>function authenticate() { >> global $username, $password, $projectFullName; >> if ($password && preg_match('/IIS/i', $_SERVER['SERVER_SOFTWARE']) && >>$_SERVER['HTTP_AUTHORIZATION']) { >> list($user, $pw) = explode(':', >>base64_decode(substr($_SERVER['HTTP_AUTHORIZATION'], 6))); >> if ($user === $username && $pw === $password) return true; // >>AUTHENTICATION SUCCESSFUL WITHIN IIS WITH ISAPI >> } >> if ($_SERVER['PHP_AUTH_USER'] && $password && >> $_SERVER['PHP_AUTH_USER'] === $username && >>$_SERVER['PHP_AUTH_PW'] === $password >> ) return true; >> if ($password) { >> header("WWW-Authenticate: Basic realm=\"$projectFullName\""); >> header('HTTP/1.0 401 Unauthorized'); >> echo "You must enter a valid login ID and password to access the >>$projectFullName\n"; >> exit; >> } >>} >>} >> >>Susan Shemin wrote: >> >> >> >>>The code I'm trying to implement is via HTTP Authentication, and the >>>book talks about configuring the Apache httpd.conf file which I do not >>>have access to. (PHP Essentials by Julie C. Meloni) >>> >>>I can set up the user authentication from the database itself, but I'm >>>not sure how secure it is. >>> >>>Are there other methods of user authentication? Ah, then I need to >>>tackle the session management. >>> >>>Susan >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>Do you Yahoo!? >>>New and Improved Yahoo! Mail >>> >>> >>> >_mail/static/efficiency.html> > > >>>- Send 10MB messages! >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>New York PHP Talk >>>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >>>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>>http://www.newyorkphp.org >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >------- > > >>Phil Powell >>Multimedia Programmer >>BPX Technologies, Inc. >>#: (703) 709-7218 x107 >>Fax: (703) 709-7219 >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New York PHP Talk >>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>http://www.newyorkphp.org >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org > > > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phil Powell Multimedia Programmer BPX Technologies, Inc. #: (703) 709-7218 x107 Fax: (703) 709-7219 From jsiegel1 at optonline.net Mon Aug 30 16:14:57 2004 From: jsiegel1 at optonline.net (Jeff Siegel) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:14:57 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Email Signup Script In-Reply-To: <001a01c48ec8$5ec049c0$524a4044@codebowl> References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040830153210.04468650@mail.earthlink.net> <001a01c48ec8$5ec049c0$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <41338AC1.8010701@optonline.net> Check out pg. 208 of the "PHP Cookbook" by Sklar & Trachtenberg. Jeff S. Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > this would be simple to create read up on the mail() function and also read > up on the $_GET variables > > very very easy to make this script. > > Joe Crawford Jr. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "harvey" > To: "nyphp" > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 3:32 PM > Subject: [nycphp-talk] Email Signup Script > > > >>Hello NYPHP, >>Does anyone know where I might find a simple "email signup" script? >>Basically, someone comes to the site, signs up their email address, and >>then gets an email with a confirmation link. When they click on that link, >>the fact that the email address was confirmed is recorded in the database. >>That's all I really need. I know there are full-fledged systems that do >>much more than that, but all I really need is this piece (if possible). I >>checked Sourceforge and also Googled, but didn't find much. Simple to read >>through and understand would be great too. Any ideas? >>Thanks! >>Harvey >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>New York PHP Talk >>Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>http://www.newyorkphp.org >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Talk > Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.newyorkphp.org > From dmintz at davidmintz.org Mon Aug 30 16:21:16 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:21:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Email Signup Script In-Reply-To: <001a01c48ec8$5ec049c0$524a4044@codebowl> References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040830153210.04468650@mail.earthlink.net> <001a01c48ec8$5ec049c0$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Aug 2004, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > this would be simple to create read up on the mail() function and also read > up on the $_GET variables > > very very easy to make this script. But for the benefit of the newbies it would be helpful to provide an outline in pseudo-code and leave the rest as a proverbial exercise for the reader. I've done similar stuff but never actually done this exact task. Here's how I might go about it; feedback is welcome. (1) create a MySQL table with fields id, email, is_confirmed etc. Make email a unique index. Make a varchar(32) column called conf_code for holding an md5 hash of the email. make is_confirmed an unsigned tinyint default 0. (2) the signup script: if it's the first pass, draw the form. if the form is POSTed, validate. If it's invalid, display error message, redraw. otherwise: insert into your_table set email='$their_email', conf_code=md5('$their_email'); send email to $their_email saying thank you, please go to http://yoursite.com/confirm.php?conf_code= . md5($their_email) to confirm your address; redirect to success page that says, thanks, please go check your inbox. (3) the confirmation script: if there are no GET parameters, display a form prompting them for the confirmation code. if there is a GET parameter conf_code, select count(*) from your_table where conf_code ='$their_conf_code' if count is 1, update your_table set is_confirmed = 1 where conf_code = '$their_conf_code' and say thank you. otherwise, say sorry... --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From dmintz at davidmintz.org Mon Aug 30 16:23:08 2004 From: dmintz at davidmintz.org (David Mintz) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Email Signup Script In-Reply-To: <41338AC1.8010701@optonline.net> References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040830153210.04468650@mail.earthlink.net> <001a01c48ec8$5ec049c0$524a4044@codebowl> <41338AC1.8010701@optonline.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Aug 2004, Jeff Siegel wrote: > Check out pg. 208 of the "PHP Cookbook" by Sklar & Trachtenberg. > Damn! Wish I'd thoughta that before mouthing off (-: --- David Mintz http://davidmintz.org/ "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 From nd at lavertue.com Mon Aug 30 16:23:47 2004 From: nd at lavertue.com (Nathan Lavertue) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:23:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Oracle function order Message-ID: <21608.64.95.24.239.1093897427.spork@webmail.lavertue.com> Is there an order of which you should follow when giving Oracle functions? Well, clearly you'd want to login and create a query before supplying a command, but, beyond that. I've got some PHP 5.x scripts running... and, it's odd, the return I receive. I get both an Oracle database error, but yet I get the query results. It's quite confusing.... Here is the entire echo listing... ---- Warning: oci_fetch() [function.oci-fetch]: OCIFetch: ORA-01002: fetch out of sequence in /Users/nlavertue/sample_return_oracle.php on line 28 data_entries=2 &DATE_TX_0=8-2004 &DATE_TX_1=9-2004 &T1_FTE_0=6000 &T1_FTE_1=0 &T2_FTE_0=7500 &T2_FTE_1=0 &ACT_FTE_0=7500 &ACT_FTE_1=6750 Warning: Unknown: _oci_close_session OCIHandleAlloc OCI_HTYPE_SVCCTX: OCI_INVALID_HANDLE in Unknown on line 0 Warning: Unknown: _oci_close_session: OCIAttrSet OCI_ATTR_SERVER: OCI_INVALID_HANDLE in Unknown on line 0 Warning: Unknown: _oci_close_session: OCIAttrSet OCI_ATTR_SESSION: OCI_INVALID_HANDLE in Unknown on line 0 Warning: Unknown: _oci_close_session: OCISessionEnd: OCI_INVALID_HANDLE in Unknown on line 0 ---- ... I don't even know where to start really. I want to get past the Oracle errors, because I need to debug the rest of the PHP code, but it seems like they will never go away. Thanks. .................. nd lavertue // .flash.soldier/pixel.terrorist. ................... lavertue.com // mutemuse.com ................... From rolan at omnistep.com Mon Aug 30 18:11:25 2004 From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 18:11:25 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Email Signup Script In-Reply-To: References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040830153210.04468650@mail.earthlink.net> <001a01c48ec8$5ec049c0$524a4044@codebowl> Message-ID: <4133A60D.2040405@omnistep.com> You would probably want to add some randomness to the confirmation code instead of using a straight md5 hash of the email because anyone could create a email request then confirm it (by md5'ing the email address and pasting to the end of the confirm url). Better to generate a random number, add it to the end of the email, maybe add unix time to it, then md5 the whole mishmash. Save that result as a key in the database. The confirm script would then look up and validate the user based on that key value. ~Rolan David Mintz wrote: >On Mon, 30 Aug 2004, Joseph Crawford Jr. wrote: > > > >> >> > > >(1) create a MySQL table with fields id, email, is_confirmed etc. Make >email a unique index. Make a varchar(32) column called conf_code for >holding an md5 hash of the email. make is_confirmed an unsigned tinyint >default 0. > >(2) the signup script: > >i > >send email to $their_email saying thank you, please go to >http://yoursite.com/confirm.php?conf_code= . md5($their_email) to confirm >your address; > >redirect to success page that says, thanks, please go check your inbox. > >(3 > > From list at harveyk.com Mon Aug 30 19:24:58 2004 From: list at harveyk.com (harvey) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 19:24:58 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Email Signup Script In-Reply-To: References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040830153210.04468650@mail.earthlink.net> <001a01c48ec8$5ec049c0$524a4044@codebowl> <41338AC1.8010701@optonline.net> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20040830192248.0448f008@mail.harveyk.com> Thanks, everyone. The chapter in PHP Cookbook looks pretty much just like what I needed... At 04:23 PM 8/30/2004, David Mintz wrote: >On Mon, 30 Aug 2004, Jeff Siegel wrote: > > > Check out pg. 208 of the "PHP Cookbook" by Sklar & Trachtenberg. > > > >Damn! Wish I'd thoughta that before mouthing off (-: > >--- >David Mintz >http://davidmintz.org/ > > "Anybody else got a problem with Webistics?" -- Sopranos 24:17 >_______________________________________________ >New York PHP Talk >Supporting AMP Technology (Apache/MySQL/PHP) >http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >http://www.newyorkphp.org From sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com Mon Aug 30 19:54:27 2004 From: sm11szw02 at sneakemail.com (inforequest) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 19:54:27 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Email Signup Script In-Reply-To: <41338AC1.8010701@optonline.net> References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040830153210.04468650@mail.earthlink.net> <001a01c48ec8$5ec049c0$524a4044@codebowl> <41338AC1.8010701@optonline.net> Message-ID: <9477-79958@sneakemail.com> Jeff Siegel jsiegel1-at-optonline.net |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: > Check out pg. 208 of the "PHP Cookbook" by Sklar & Trachtenberg. > > Jeff S. > For those of us using O'Reilly Safari, can you mention the chapter or topic? The page numbering is not part of Safari. I am guessing you are referencing 17.2 "Sending Mail" but I can't be sure.... From adam at trachtenberg.com Mon Aug 30 19:58:22 2004 From: adam at trachtenberg.com (Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 19:58:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Email Signup Script In-Reply-To: <9477-79958@sneakemail.com> References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040830153210.04468650@mail.earthlink.net> <001a01c48ec8$5ec049c0$524a4044@codebowl> <41338AC1.8010701@optonline.net> <9477-79958@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Aug 2004, inforequest wrote: > Jeff Siegel jsiegel1-at-optonline.net |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: > > > Check out pg. 208 of the "PHP Cookbook" by Sklar & Trachtenberg. > > > > Jeff S. > > > For those of us using O'Reilly Safari, can you mention the chapter or > topic? The page numbering is not part of Safari. > > I am guessing you are referencing 17.2 "Sending Mail" but I can't be > sure.... 8.26 "Program: Website Account (De)activator" Safari may think this is 8.27. I believe it numbers the chapter intro as recipe 1 instead of recipe 0. -adam -- adam at trachtenberg.com author of o'reilly's "upgrading to php 5" and "php cookbook" avoid the holiday rush, buy your copies today! From jsiegel1 at optonline.net Mon Aug 30 20:43:26 2004 From: jsiegel1 at optonline.net (Jeff Siegel) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 20:43:26 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Email Signup Script In-Reply-To: References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040830153210.04468650@mail.earthlink.net> <001a01c48ec8$5ec049c0$524a4044@codebowl> <41338AC1.8010701@optonline.net> <9477-79958@sneakemail.com> Message-ID: <4133C9AE.3010702@optonline.net> Thanks Adam...I had no clue what the "Safari" number was. Jeff Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg wrote: > On Mon, 30 Aug 2004, inforequest wrote: > > >>Jeff Siegel jsiegel1-at-optonline.net |nyphp 04/2004| wrote: >> >> >>>Check out pg. 208 of the "PHP Cookbook" by Sklar & Trachtenberg. >>> >>>Jeff S. >>> >> >>For those of us using O'Reilly Safari, can you mention the chapter or >>topic? The page numbering is not part of Safari. >> >>I am guessing you are referencing 17.2 "Sending Mail" but I can't be >>sure.... > > > 8.26 "Program: Website Account (De)activator" > > Safari may think this is 8.27. I believe it numbers the chapter intro > as recipe 1 instead of recipe 0. > > -adam > From tommyo at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 09:28:37 2004 From: tommyo at gmail.com (Thomas O'Neill) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:28:37 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Email Signup Script In-Reply-To: <4133C9AE.3010702@optonline.net> References: <6.1.2.0.0.20040830153210.04468650@mail.earthlink.net> <001a01c48ec8$5ec049c0$524a4044@codebowl> <41338AC1.8010701@optonline.net> <9477-79958@sneakemail.com> <4133C9AE.3010702@optonline.net> Message-ID: May I suggest that when sending your email you might want to look at using the phpmailer class. I have found that the best way to keep the mail out of MSN/Yahoo/and the likes junk mail boxes is to deliver the mail from an actual account on your system. I create an account for outgoing mail called system at mydomain.com and use the SMTP functions in the phpmailer class to send the outgoing mail from that user. (phpmailer also supports multi type email for attachments or HTML email) http://phpmailer.sourceforge.net/ Check it out: //Create a new Mailer Object $mailer = new PHPMailer(); $mailer->IsSMTP(); // SMTP server $mailer->Host = "mail.mydomain.org"; // Outgoing mail server username $mailer->Username = "username"; // Outgoing mail server pasword $mailer->Password = "password"; // Mail From address $mailer->From = "tommyo at mydomain.org"; $mailer->FromName = 'Thomas ONeill'; $mailer->Subject = $subject; $mailer->Body = $body; $mailer->WordWrap = 50; $mailer->AddAddress($toemail); if($mailer->Send()){ //success } From codebowl at gmail.com Tue Aug 31 13:33:31 2004 From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:33:31 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] just a test email changed Message-ID: <8d9a428004083110336b5b9e00@mail.gmail.com> just testing to make sure i am still on the list now ;)