NYCPHP Meetup

[Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline)]

Hello,

Lots of good points.

> In that case you may also consider someone who does PHP development as a 
> hobby (like me), but has many other skills such as software QA and support 
> experience (like me)....uh, did I just apply for the job? ;)
> You can always teach them about objects and classes later if they got the 
> basics down such as loops, conditions, and such.

This is exactly the role I'm looking to fill in my company.

> uh, did I just apply for the job? ;)

You can if you want! Contact me off list if you are truely interested.

> I was asked once to take a test during an interview. As soon as the HR 
> person asked me to do that I no longer wanted that job. Hire me because I 
> work well and not because I test well. Knowing a lot doesn't necessarily 
> mean that one can do a lot. There is a fine line between knowledge and 
> skill and you really want to go for skill more than knowledge. I'm not 
> saying that knowing a lot is bad, but I met people with tons of technical 
> degress that were challanged by wiring up a simple phone.

I have been asked to solve problems for jobs in the past. One I really 
bombed
and still got the job, another I solved well and got the job.

I don't see the point in NOT testing an applicant..I mean..if they're 
applying
for a job as a programmer, and part of that is solving problems, I'm curious
to see how they approach "problem solving". I don't care if they get the 
answer *right*,
I just want to see their thought process.

> While that is indeed a good exercise it may backfire and make your 
> development team look chaotic and disorganized

True, I guess I'd just be curious if they can follow the code, and also
how they could do it better. Point out some mistakes/bad practices.

Thanks for the thoughts!

- Ben

Ben Sgro, Chief Engineer
ProjectSkyLine - Defining New Horizons

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Krings" <ramons at gmx.net>
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Questions to ask at a job interview?


> Hi!
>
> I never hired or interviewed anyone, but currently look for a new job and 
> can tell you some of the questions that I ask and my point of view of 
> things you consider doing during the interview.
>
>
> Ben Sgro (ProjectSkyline) wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>  /So, once again, depending on the actual job description, I might take 
>> some ugly code (in any real work environment, there should be no shortage 
>> of that :), print it out, and give the candidate a pad and a pen, or a 
>> text editor, and say "Clean this up.  I'll be back in 20 minutes."/
>>  That's a great idea. Our first product (wasn't meant to ever be realesed 
>> heh) is a mess. If the candidate could manage to navigate through it and 
>> improve it, I would be impressed.
>
> While that is indeed a good exercise it may backfire and make your 
> development team look chaotic and disorganized. It may also give the 
> impression as if it is OK to create ugly code. You or someone on your team 
> apparently did. I would get some doubts if your place is really the best 
> address to apply my skills. As a candidate I'd also be confused as to what 
> the purpose of this exercise is. Do you expect me to go through thousands 
> of lines later and clean up the mess that others left behind? Do these 
> developers consider themselves to be "too good" to do work like that? And 
> does this test tell you anything about how the candidate writes and 
> formats code?
> At least don't tell the candidates that this code was considered a 
> "product". You need to sell yourself to applicants in the same way as they 
> sell themslves to you. And for anyone who is serious about their work 
> things like coding standards, work ethic, and such matter as much as 
> money.
>
>
>
>> /Also check with HR to find out what you are *not* allowed to ask, 
>> anything that could be construed to be a basis for discrimination like 
>> age.
>> /
>> We don't have HR, but I will keep it pretty technical and not 
>> personal...besides asking what
>> their personal interests are.
>
> I wouldn't ask anything personal other than education and previous 
> employment. It is none of your business if the candidate likes watching 
> SpongeBob. This isn't Germany where it is common to ask this, and the 
> occupation of your parents, and to which elementary school you went to.
>
>
>> /If you like somebody and think they will work out, ask them to come back 
>> and invite in 2 or 3 of their potential coworkers and have a short 
>> brainstorming session on a problem you have at the moment.  See what they 
>> contribute./
>>  That's a great idea. The position is for a coder, but I let candidates 
>> know in my post and on the phone
>> that there would be times when they might deal with customers, work an 
>> account, provide insight
>> to larger projects, be writing CL scripts, etc. It's a many hats 
>> position, because we are a small company
>> and have lots to get done. I know that this may not work, so based on 
>> their performance, I can
>> place more of their time onto things they a) enjoy doing b) do well 
>> (which probably are related).
>
> In that case you may also consider someone who does PHP development as a 
> hobby (like me), but has many other skills such as software QA and support 
> experience (like me)....uh, did I just apply for the job? ;)
> You can always teach them about objects and classes later if they got the 
> basics down such as loops, conditions, and such.
>
>
>> /As for questions, its good to have a formal test you ask them to take, 
>> but interviewing is an art you can only get good at with practice./
>> // This will be the first time the tables are turned. I've never 
>> conducted an interview before.
>>
>
> I was asked once to take a test during an interview. As soon as the HR 
> person asked me to do that I no longer wanted that job. Hire me because I 
> work well and not because I test well. Knowing a lot doesn't necessarily 
> mean that one can do a lot. There is a fine line between knowledge and 
> skill and you really want to go for skill more than knowledge. I'm not 
> saying that knowing a lot is bad, but I met people with tons of technical 
> degress that were challanged by wiring up a simple phone.
>
>
> Now, the questions that I tend to ask are:
> What is the ratio between developers and QA staff? (Should be somewhat 
> towards 1:1) Ratio between staff and management? (the lower the better)
>
> Do you like working here? (You better shout out a convincing "Yes" 
> immediately and tell me why your company/organization is the best to work 
> for in the entire universe)
>
> What is the turnover rate? (If your staff is dropping like the flies you 
> really have a problem, not only in regards to answering this question)
>
> Do I have access to all resources and persons on the team and in 
> management? (I don't want to schedule an appointment with my supervisor 
> for an urgent issue and I don't like not being allowed to go straight to 
> other developers to address an issue. This is supposed a team, not a jail 
> or the military)
>
> Am I allowed to choose the tools that I consider are the best to do the 
> job? (Saying yes may mean that someone buys anything that Programmer's 
> Paradise has in stock. If it is about buying the favorite PHP IDE for 50$ 
> I'd expect that to be a non-issue as long as it makes me (means the 
> candidate/employee) be more productive / feel more comfortable. After all, 
> you hire someone because they have skills that you currently do not have 
> available at all or in the needed amount in your team. You are looking for 
> a subject matter expert and not a whipping boy.)
>
> Now the questions that I was asked and that I think are pretty useless:
> Where do you want to be in five years? (on my private beach with a huge 
> house and tons of cash....no, I don't answer that, I say I want to broaden 
> my knowledge and become a subject matter expert in the field I am working 
> in. Honestly, first tell me that you will pay me for five years and then 
> we can talk where I want to be.)
>
> Why did you apply for this position? (Guess why? I need a job and you are 
> hiring, that's why. You apparently think that I am qualified otherwise you 
> wouldn't have invited me for an interview.)
>
> How do you organize your workplace? (Who cares if it looks like a bomb 
> dropped. There are no customers in my cube and in the end the quality of 
> the result counts. A way more interesting question would be how the 
> candidate treats other's workspaces and common areas, like the lunch room 
> or bathroom - but you are not allowed to ask that.)
>
> What do you expect to get paid? (A million bucks, please....the candidate 
> will let you know when you make an offer. If you really like one person 
> and they turn you down, you can make a better offer. Use salary.com to 
> find out what the going rate is in the area and be sure that the applicant 
> did the same. Money is important, but really something to talk about at 
> the very very end of the process.)
>
>
>
> Good luck finding the right person.
>
> David
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