[nycphp-talk] Why IT Sucks
SyAD at aol.com
SyAD at aol.com
Fri Apr 18 10:24:17 EDT 2008
Oh yeah -- I'm sure a lot of independents comtemplate that, that being
independent may deprive one of a large infrastructure, more money, big complex
projects, that independents may not get access to.
My comment was that perhaps it's sort of genetic -- that maybe the
personality that drives one to be independent may be correlated with the skill set you
seek.
It's an unproved generalization of course.
Steve
In a message dated 4/17/2008 9:30:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
JasonS at innovationads.com writes:
Yes, but maybe the best opportunities are not available to independents? Just
a thought
Jason Scott | Chief Information Officer
233 Broadway, 21st Floor, New York, NY 10279
Ph: 212.509.5218 ext 226 | Fax: 866-797-0971
_innovationads.com _ (http://www.innovationads.com/)
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of SyAD at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 9:18 AM
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Why IT Sucks
This may have been mentioned already, but maybe the best people out there are
independent?
Steve
In a message dated 4/17/2008 7:38:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
JasonS at innovationads.com writes:
Ok, so with all this talk, and everyone wanting to make some money, why can't
I get a decent resume across my desk?!
I am offering - imo - perhaps the best and most challenging work environment
I've seen since I got to NY, and the only people who are handing me decent
resumes are recruiters who are looking to earn 20 pct of YOUR salaries...
If any of you are the real deal - from QA to dev or anywhere in between -
please, please give me a call or shoot me an email offline?
And if you're not interested, then please stop asking the world why you can't
seem to make a decent living - right here, right now, I can state matter of
fact that I can offer that tomorrow to one or two of you, no problem, as long -
as Tom says - you, youself, are truly worth it.
And believe it or not, assuming I'm not alone in this, hiring managers are
possibly more frustrated than you all are! There are a lot more true employment
opporunities out there than there are truly talented programmers to fill them!
Digest that :-)
Good debate, though, overall...I'm enjoying the read
Jason Scott | Chief Information Officer
233 Broadway, 21st Floor, New York, NY 10279
Ph: 212.509.5218 ext 226 | Fax: 866-797-0971
innovationads.com
-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of David Krings
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:12 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Why IT Sucks
Kristina Anderson wrote:
> Tom --
>
> The average corporate attorney makes $200K. The average attorney in
> business for themselves makes about the same. The average CPA, about
> 150K. The average doctor, electrician, etc. etc. etc...way more than
> we do.
>
> The AVERAGE programmer makes, what, 80K if on salary? (I'm self
> employed and the hourly rate I can get from the clients is pretty
> constricted by the market, and I'm trying to bust open that 100K
> barrier but it won't be busted...I'm still on the losing end.)
>
> And you don't feel this is an ISSUE? You don't honestly feel that the
> social status of the IT profession needs some improvement, that most of
> us are underpaid?
>
> Come on, work with us.
>
Gee, as a QA specialist / lead I get not even the 80k. So why should a
developer get that much money? Developers make software so that QA can test
it. For that QA should get paid more than developers. And even more, support
covers the butts of QA which covered the butts of the developers and yet
support gets paid crap compared to even a QA guy. I think developers are
already overvalued, but the same applies to doctors (although depends, the
PCP
that gets called in the middle of the night deserves good pay) and lawyers. I
also think that the front desk person deserves the highest pay, same applies
to administrative assistance. While the big wigs play golf these fine people
keep a business running. I know that from first hand experience. I worked at
a
place where among others the receptionist got laid off. After a week all hell
broke loose. No office supplies, the water company did not get paid (neither
did the electric and gas companies, or anyone else), customers left hundreds
of messages and ran over to the competition because nobody bothered to
reroute
the phone lines or shut off the email accounts. And I am sure that everything
will work fine if all the CEOs of the Fortune 500 companies get laid off. And
some companies do that. When I started working at Henkel in Germany for the
first time they had 27 layers of management. When I worked there the last
time
they were down to less than a dozen. Stuff got done the same as before, but
without spending millions on chair farters.
But no matter who you ask, that person always makes not enough money. Ask
A-Rod and I am sure that he would love to get paid even more. They are all
whiners, just look at that multi-billionaire who lost big in that Bear
Stearns
deal. OK, he lost about a billion bucks, but he still has 4 billion left!
Even
he is whining and feels cheated.
Honestly, I would be the happiest person on earth if I could make anything
close to 80k. I think that is plenty awesome money for a 9ish to 5ish job.
I'd
be happy with even 70k. Not to say that I am grossly underpaid at the moment.
Pay is OK, feeds the family and secures a home and then a bit is even left.
But with even more money, I guess we'd just spend it all and then what,
complain again it is not enough. We are quite spoiled, there are many who
have
to get by on 30k and no benefits. How can one work full time and not even
have
decent health insurance? Now those are the folks that have a right to
complain!
David
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com
Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1379 - Release Date: 4/15/2008
6:10 PM
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1382 - Release Date: 4/16/2008
5:34 PM
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com
Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
____________________________________
Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at
_AOL Autos_ (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) .
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1382 - Release Date: 4/16/2008
5:34 PM
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1382 - Release Date: 4/16/2008
5:34 PM
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com
Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20080418/8ed34da3/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 9100 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20080418/8ed34da3/attachment.jpg>
More information about the talk
mailing list