NYCPHP Meetup

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Kristina Anderson wrote:
> Ed, I agree, it would be great if we could find some methodology that 
> could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt on an empirical basis that PHP 
> is a more popular platform than Cold Fusion.  I can't adequately defend 
> my contention to your exacting standards at the present moment, because 
> you're right, I don't have the data.  But I believe that the data is 
> gatherable and that my theory is valid. 
I do too. But I would like it quantified as well.
> So anyone have any ideas how to do that, links, information, empirical 
> studies, etc. etc & etc ... bring 'em on.
>
> We could do an empirical analysis of job postings on 10 or so general 
> tech job boards over a time period of a year...?
>   
That sounds interesting.
> PS Ed, your own link to the TIOBE website showed that they listed Cold 
> Fusion at the bottom of the popularity grid...and PHP was in the top 
> half.  But you're saying that you have "problems with their 
> methodology", OK.  But you can have problems with any methodology or  
> means of proof, and that in and of itself is an emotional 
> response...based on your beliefs and temperament...and btw there's 
> nothing wrong with that! :=]
>
>   
I believe this to be a straw man.
I never said I had "problems with their methodology". I said "which i 
think are erroneous", and logically so.
I posted a link to the 2 illogical assumptions that support the TIOBE 
indexes as being fallacious.
I will clearly list them here, as it seems you didn't follow that link 
(poor scholarship):
# that the number of search engine hits for the phrase “/foo/ programming” 
is proportional to the “popularity” of that language.
# that the proportionality /is the same for different languages/.
It is therefore logically unsound to deduce that the TIOBE indexes are 
correct in a truly accurate esteem.
All they are graphing reduces to search engine results, and nothing more.

> I mean let's face it, people have "proved beyond doubt" all sorts of 
> things which flat out ain't so, right?
>
> -- Kristina
>   
I'm not sure what you are looking to express with that (perhaps 
rhetorical?) question.

<X>Out of curiosity<X>
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What would be an example of something "proved beyond doubt" that "flat 
out ain't so"?
(Please refrain from listing some historic event of ignorance, such as 
meat becoming maggots or the Earth being flat. We are discussing a 
comparison of actual market holding betwixt two modern programming 
languages. Feel free to respond off list.)
<XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX>

In fact, there is not a clearly quantified amount of conclusive 
information to accurately deduce that PHP (or any other language) holds 
this or that particular portion of the 'market'. Therefore, to propose 
we find a 'reason' for PHP holding the majority of the 'market share', 
is pure nonsense, as we do not know that PHP holds such a portion. We 
may as well propose to find a reason for which Coldfusion holds the 
largest share of the market, or Python, or Flex, or Java, or COBOL...

Perhaps this thread may be a catalyst to develop a better means of 
accurately surveying language utilization in a granular fashion.

-Ed