From ps at blu-studio.com Sun Jun 9 21:20:25 2013 From: ps at blu-studio.com (Peter Sawczynec) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2013 21:20:25 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Browser detection In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008b01ce6578$b01aa460$104fed20$@com> It is definitely time to be using Responsive Grid (as there are just too many platforms and device screen sizes to go custom on all of them) and then theoretically one would not need browser detection. But if you still have a separate mobile version of a desktop site? I looked at all the options (WURFL, special php class libraries, etc). They were all too heavy and much too specific. Those old tools were for a time when tangible code breaking platform capabilities differences and browser differences were still important. Today - at least here in North America - with html5/webkit standards support virtually omnipresent, I find detecting generally for desktop vs tablet vs mobile is really all one needs to know. So for a couple of years now I have been using a really small javascript browser detection script to detect for mobile by checking on a trifecta of: a) mobile OS in the user agent string b) orientation c) touch In actual use it looks quite much like the snippet below. I've made many versions of it including with cookies to save the user preference. This particular one below allows to route iPad users directly to the desktop site. You can customize it by adding more or less entries into the mobile OS regular expression and/or change up the logic a little. var agent = navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase(); // If the screen orientation is defined we are in a modern mobile OS var mobileOS = typeof orientation != 'undefined' ? true : false; // If touch events are defined we are in a modern touch screen OS var touchOS = ('ontouchstart' in document.documentElement) ? true : false; // If is mobile user agent var isanymobile = (/iphone|ipad|ipod|android|blackberry|symbianos|symbian|sonyericsson|samsung |webos|wap|motor|nokia|mini|windows\sce|palm/i.test(agent)); var isiPad = /ipad/i.test(agent); function check_mobile() { if (mobileOS && touchOS && isanymobile && !isiPad) { window.location = 'http://m.anysite.com/'; } } check_mobile(); This post on a Samsung Galaxy Tab forum has a really good example of this type of mobile detection script in use too: http://www.thegalaxytabforum.com/index.php?/topic/621-detecting-android-tabl ets-with-javascript/ There is also special website called: http://detectmobilebrowsers.com/ that gives the basic overview of how this type of mobile OS detection works. This concept has been discussed in detail too on stackoverflow.com Warmest regards, Peter Sawczynec Technology Dir. bl?studio 941.893.0396 ps at blu-studio.com www.blu-studio.com From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Federico Ulfo Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 3:52 PM To: NYPHP Talk Subject: [nycphp-talk] Browser detection Hi all, how do you solve the problem of the browser detection? The PHP built in function get_browser() doesn't seams to work very well, it's slow and inaccurate, it also need a huge browscap.ini file to be loaded and updated, and looks like isn't maintained really well. The most accurate library I've found uses the user-agent-string.info API, which isn't very fast, and it doesn't tell the device type, such as iPhone, iPad, Android, etc. Not satisfacted by the available solutions I've decided to create a library that with dependency injection loads other parser, so it's flexible and accurate. The library, Sail\Useragent, is open source and available on packagist: https://github.com/rainphp/useragent -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ps at blu-studio.com Mon Jun 10 06:46:38 2013 From: ps at blu-studio.com (Peter Sawczynec) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 06:46:38 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Recycle Out Dated PHP Books Message-ID: <009c01ce65c7$c9621a30$5c264e90$@com> I have a stack of outdated PHP, Flash and other computer books (before Kindle). I once tried to sell old computer books to a used book store and they said no thanks would not take them even for free as they cannot sell them. Is there a way to recycle old out dated PHP computer books? Warmest regards, Peter Sawczynec Technology Dir. bl?studio 941.893.0396 ps at blu-studio.com www.blu-studio.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ramons at gmx.net Mon Jun 10 10:55:08 2013 From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 10:55:08 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Recycle Out Dated PHP Books In-Reply-To: <009c01ce65c7$c9621a30$5c264e90$@com> References: <009c01ce65c7$c9621a30$5c264e90$@com> Message-ID: <51B5E8CC.50408@gmx.net> On 6/10/2013 6:46 AM, Peter Sawczynec wrote: > I have a stack of outdated PHP, Flash and other computer books (before > Kindle). I once tried to sell old computer books to a used book store and they > said no thanks would not take them even for free as they cannot sell them. Is > there a way to recycle old out dated PHP computer books? Hi! Recycle as in not throw in the trash recycling? My first choice is always Freecycle (pack it in a bag and leave it outside the front door for easy pickup). If that fails I try Craigslist (although that appears to be more and more pointless) and that fails it is the waste paper bucket for curbside collection - yes, sad, but better there than in a landfill. Most book stores won't take anything that is older than three years. David From leamhall at gmail.com Mon Jun 10 10:59:41 2013 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 10:59:41 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Recycle Out Dated PHP Books In-Reply-To: <51B5E8CC.50408@gmx.net> References: <009c01ce65c7$c9621a30$5c264e90$@com> <51B5E8CC.50408@gmx.net> Message-ID: Goodwill does, I think. They give you a tax form as well. Send me the list, BTW, my library has had some turnover. :) Leam On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 10:55 AM, David Krings wrote: > On 6/10/2013 6:46 AM, Peter Sawczynec wrote: > >> I have a stack of outdated PHP, Flash and other computer books (before >> Kindle). I once tried to sell old computer books to a used book store and >> they >> said no thanks would not take them even for free as they cannot sell >> them. Is >> there a way to recycle old out dated PHP computer books? >> > > Hi! > > Recycle as in not throw in the trash recycling? My first choice is always > Freecycle (pack it in a bag and leave it outside the front door for easy > pickup). If that fails I try Craigslist (although that appears to be more > and more pointless) and that fails it is the waste paper bucket for > curbside collection - yes, sad, but better there than in a landfill. > Most book stores won't take anything that is older than three years. > > David > ______________________________**_________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/**mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-**participation > -- Mind on a Mission -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidalanroth at gmail.com Tue Jun 11 12:02:08 2013 From: davidalanroth at gmail.com (David Roth) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 12:02:08 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] SOAP/PHP: Soapclient usage with asmx and wsdl? Message-ID: There is a server which supports SOAP, that ends in .asmx such as http://example.com/foo.asmx. I'm getting these kind of PHP error messages: PHP Fatal error: SOAP-ERROR: Parsing WSDL: Couldn't load from ' http://example.com:8090/foo.asmx' : Premature end of data in tag html line 3 in /home/www/html/foo.php on line 5 PHP Fatal error: Uncaught SoapFault exception: [WSDL] SOAP-ERROR: Parsing WSDL: Couldn't load from 'http://example.com:8090/foo.asmx' : Premature end of data in tag html line 3 Could this possibly mean that the server is not serving WSDL? I've seen mention of non-WSDL, but I'm not aware of what needs to be done differently for the SOAP requests. Thanks! David Roth -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dorgan at donaldorgan.com Tue Jun 11 12:49:03 2013 From: dorgan at donaldorgan.com (Donald Organ) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 12:49:03 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] SOAP/PHP: Soapclient usage with asmx and wsdl? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thats probably becaus ethats not the URL to the WSDL, can you go to that url in a browser, generally you can and then there is a link that will bring you to the WSDL. On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 12:02 PM, David Roth wrote: > There is a server which supports SOAP, that ends in .asmx such as > http://example.com/foo.asmx. I'm getting these kind of PHP error messages: > > PHP Fatal error: SOAP-ERROR: Parsing WSDL: Couldn't load from ' > http://example.com:8090/foo.asmx' : Premature end of data in tag html > line 3 > in /home/www/html/foo.php on line 5 > PHP Fatal error: Uncaught SoapFault exception: [WSDL] SOAP-ERROR: Parsing > WSDL: Couldn't load from 'http://example.com:8090/foo.asmx' : Premature > end of data in tag html line 3 > > Could this possibly mean that the server is not serving WSDL? I've seen > mention of non-WSDL, but I'm not aware of what needs to be done differently > for the SOAP requests. Thanks! > > David Roth > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zippy1981 at gmail.com Tue Jun 11 13:12:44 2013 From: zippy1981 at gmail.com (Justin Dearing) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 13:12:44 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] SOAP/PHP: Soapclient usage with asmx and wsdl? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That is a non-WCF ASP.NET service. It should be foo.asmx?wsdl for the wsdl. you can use fiddler or Charles to inspect the SOAP packets if you continue to have troubles On Jun 11, 2013 12:49 PM, "Donald Organ" wrote: > Thats probably becaus ethats not the URL to the WSDL, can you go to that > url in a browser, generally you can and then there is a link that will > bring you to the WSDL. > > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 12:02 PM, David Roth wrote: > >> There is a server which supports SOAP, that ends in .asmx such as >> http://example.com/foo.asmx. I'm getting these kind of PHP error >> messages: >> >> PHP Fatal error: SOAP-ERROR: Parsing WSDL: Couldn't load from ' >> http://example.com:8090/foo.asmx' : Premature end of data in tag html >> line 3 >> in /home/www/html/foo.php on line 5 >> PHP Fatal error: Uncaught SoapFault exception: [WSDL] SOAP-ERROR: >> Parsing WSDL: Couldn't load from 'http://example.com:8090/foo.asmx' : >> Premature end of data in tag html line 3 >> >> Could this possibly mean that the server is not serving WSDL? I've seen >> mention of non-WSDL, but I'm not aware of what needs to be done differently >> for the SOAP requests. Thanks! >> >> David Roth >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidalanroth at gmail.com Tue Jun 11 14:21:38 2013 From: davidalanroth at gmail.com (David Roth) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 14:21:38 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] SOAP/PHP: Soapclient usage with asmx and wsdl? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Justin. That was the problem! I added '?wsdl' and the SOAP errors are gone. David Roth On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Justin Dearing wrote: > That is a non-WCF ASP.NET service. It should be foo.asmx?wsdl for the > wsdl. you can use fiddler or Charles to inspect the SOAP packets if you > continue to have troubles > On Jun 11, 2013 12:49 PM, "Donald Organ" wrote: > >> Thats probably becaus ethats not the URL to the WSDL, can you go to that >> url in a browser, generally you can and then there is a link that will >> bring you to the WSDL. >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 12:02 PM, David Roth wrote: >> >>> There is a server which supports SOAP, that ends in .asmx such as >>> http://example.com/foo.asmx. I'm getting these kind of PHP error >>> messages: >>> >>> PHP Fatal error: SOAP-ERROR: Parsing WSDL: Couldn't load from ' >>> http://example.com:8090/foo.asmx' : Premature end of data in tag html >>> line 3 >>> in /home/www/html/foo.php on line 5 >>> PHP Fatal error: Uncaught SoapFault exception: [WSDL] SOAP-ERROR: >>> Parsing WSDL: Couldn't load from 'http://example.com:8090/foo.asmx' : >>> Premature end of data in tag html line 3 >>> >>> Could this possibly mean that the server is not serving WSDL? I've seen >>> mention of non-WSDL, but I'm not aware of what needs to be done differently >>> for the SOAP requests. Thanks! >>> >>> David Roth >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List >>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>> >>> http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rainelemental at gmail.com Wed Jun 12 12:48:06 2013 From: rainelemental at gmail.com (Federico Ulfo) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 12:48:06 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Browser detection In-Reply-To: <008b01ce6578$b01aa460$104fed20$@com> References: <008b01ce6578$b01aa460$104fed20$@com> Message-ID: Hey Peter, because email clients don't allow javascript I had to implement the browser detection in PHP. Perhaps looks like your detection is done on the useragent string, so I believe your client solution is equivalent to any server solution. Anyway thanks for sharing this. On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Peter Sawczynec wrote: > It is definitely time to be using Responsive Grid (as there are just too > many platforms and device screen sizes to go custom on all of them) and > then theoretically one would not need browser detection. But if you still > have a separate mobile version of a desktop site?**** > > ** ** > > I looked at all the options (WURFL, special php class libraries, etc). > They were all too heavy and much too specific. Those old tools were for a > time when tangible code breaking platform capabilities differences and > browser differences were still important.**** > > ** ** > > Today - at least here in North America - with html5/webkit standards > support virtually omnipresent, I find detecting generally for desktop vs > tablet vs mobile is really all one needs to know. **** > > ** ** > > So for a couple of years now I have been using a really small javascript > browser detection script to detect for mobile by checking on a trifecta of: > **** > > a) mobile OS in the user agent string**** > > b) orientation**** > > c) touch**** > > ** ** > > In actual use it looks quite much like the snippet below. I've made many > versions of it including with cookies to save the user preference. This > particular one below allows to route iPad users directly to the desktop > site. You can customize it by adding more or less entries into the mobile > OS regular expression and/or change up the logic a little. **** > > ** ** > > var agent = navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();**** > > // If the screen orientation is defined we are in a modern mobile OS**** > > var mobileOS = typeof orientation != 'undefined' ? true : false;**** > > // If touch events are defined we are in a modern touch screen OS**** > > var touchOS = ('ontouchstart' in document.documentElement) ? true : false; > **** > > // If is mobile user agent**** > > var isanymobile = > (/iphone|ipad|ipod|android|blackberry|symbianos|symbian|sonyericsson|samsung|webos|wap|motor|nokia|mini|windows\sce|palm/i.test(agent)); > **** > > var isiPad = /ipad/i.test(agent);**** > > function check_mobile() {**** > > if (mobileOS && touchOS && isanymobile && !isiPad) {**** > > window.location = 'http://m.anysite.com/'; > **** > > }**** > > }**** > > check_mobile(); **** > > ** ** > > This post on a Samsung Galaxy Tab forum has a really good example of this > type of mobile detection script in use too: > http://www.thegalaxytabforum.com/index.php?/topic/621-detecting-android-tablets-with-javascript/ > **** > > ** ** > > There is also special website called: http://detectmobilebrowsers.com/that gives the basic overview of how this type of mobile OS detection > works. **** > > ** ** > > This concept has been discussed in detail too on stackoverflow.com**** > > ** ** > > Warmest regards, **** > > **** > > Peter Sawczynec **** > > Technology Dir.**** > > bl?studio **** > > 941.893.0396**** > > ps at blu-studio.com **** > > www.blu-studio.com **** > > ** ** > > *From:* talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > *On Behalf Of *Federico Ulfo > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 01, 2013 3:52 PM > *To:* NYPHP Talk > *Subject:* [nycphp-talk] Browser detection**** > > ** ** > > Hi all, how do you solve the problem of the browser detection?**** > > ** ** > > The PHP built in function get_browser() doesn't seams to work very well, > it's slow and inaccurate, it also need a huge browscap.ini file to be > loaded and updated, and looks like isn't maintained really well.**** > > ** ** > > The most accurate library I've found uses the user-agent-string.info API, > which isn't very fast, and it doesn't tell the device type, such as iPhone, > iPad, Android, etc.**** > > ** ** > > Not satisfacted by the available solutions I've decided to create a > library that with dependency injection loads other parser, so it's flexible > and accurate. The library, Sail\Useragent, is open source and available on > packagist:**** > > https://github.com/rainphp/useragent**** > > ** ** > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajai at bitblit.net Wed Jun 12 14:52:28 2013 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 14:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-talk] Browser detection In-Reply-To: <008b01ce6578$b01aa460$104fed20$@com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 Jun 2013, Peter Sawczynec wrote: > It is definitely time to be using Responsive Grid (as there are just too > many platforms and device screen sizes to go custom on all of them) and then > theoretically one would not need browser detection. But if you still have a > separate mobile version of a desktop site? You could also use something like Modernizr to detect features. http://modernizr.com/ Ive been looking at a lot of responsive frameworks recently and came across PureCSS which doesn't use any JavaScript. http://purecss.io/ -- Aj. FaceBook: facebook.com/ajaikhattri EnoLand: http://flip.it/c1ktG From chsnyder at gmail.com Wed Jun 12 15:50:13 2013 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (Chris Snyder) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 15:50:13 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Browser detection In-Reply-To: References: <008b01ce6578$b01aa460$104fed20$@com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Federico Ulfo wrote: > Hey Peter, because email clients don't allow javascript I had to implement > the browser detection in PHP. Perhaps looks like your detection is done on > the useragent string, so I believe your client solution is equivalent to > any server solution. > > Anyway thanks for sharing this. > > Email clients also don't send user-agent strings, do they? Or I guess maybe they do for images, if they happen to be set to load images from external sites. Is that what you're doing? Can you actually tell if someone loads an image in Outlook versus Internet Explorer? Just curious. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rainelemental at gmail.com Wed Jun 12 18:02:54 2013 From: rainelemental at gmail.com (Federico Ulfo) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2013 18:02:54 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Browser detection In-Reply-To: References: <008b01ce6578$b01aa460$104fed20$@com> Message-ID: yes, browser, apps, spider, mailer... you'll be surprise of how many user agents exist, here there are listed just a few: http://useragentstring.com/pages/useragentstring.php browser detection is unreliable to identify one specific user agent in the access_log, but makes sense when you have big data, because in that case the noise is so small respect the data that you can obtain pretty much "accurate" analytics. On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Chris Snyder wrote: > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Federico Ulfo wrote: > >> Hey Peter, because email clients don't allow javascript I had to >> implement the browser detection in PHP. Perhaps looks like your detection >> is done on the useragent string, so I believe your client solution is >> equivalent to any server solution. >> >> Anyway thanks for sharing this. >> >> > > Email clients also don't send user-agent strings, do they? > > Or I guess maybe they do for images, if they happen to be set to load > images from external sites. Is that what you're doing? Can you actually > tell if someone loads an image in Outlook versus Internet Explorer? Just > curious. > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nhart at partsauthority.com Wed Jun 19 13:09:17 2013 From: nhart at partsauthority.com (Nicholas Hart) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:09:17 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu Message-ID: I am having a debate in our office over whether to continue with CentOS distro for use with our VM based servers (XEN) or switch to Ubuntu. I have kept the belief that RedHat is better for servers while Ubuntu is preferred on the desktop. I even have an Ubuntu desktop PC. Just wondered what all of you think or recommend. Thanks. Best, Nick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leamhall at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 13:15:45 2013 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:15:45 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Easier to find stuff that works on RH/CentOS than Ubuntu. 95% of US Linux deployments, give or take, are Red Hat. Ubuntu has a place, just not in the data center. Yet, anyway. They seem to be working on that. Leam On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Nicholas Hart wrote: > I am having a debate in our office over whether to continue with CentOS > distro for use with our VM based servers (XEN) or switch to Ubuntu. I have > kept the belief that RedHat is better for servers while Ubuntu is preferred > on the desktop. I even have an Ubuntu desktop PC. Just wondered what all > of you think or recommend. Thanks. > > Best, > Nick > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation > -- Mind on a Mission -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zippy1981 at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 13:16:02 2013 From: zippy1981 at gmail.com (Justin Dearing) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:16:02 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What runs on your servers? Do you find yourself using a lot of third party RPMS or custom compiled tarballs? Is the software you care about more up to date on ubuntu? Ubuntu has an install without X. Its been a while since I ran Xen VMs.. Its pretty much what is easier to manage for you. Generally speaking though, I use Ubuntu on the desktop and Redhat/Centos on the server. On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Nicholas Hart wrote: > I am having a debate in our office over whether to continue with CentOS > distro for use with our VM based servers (XEN) or switch to Ubuntu. I have > kept the belief that RedHat is better for servers while Ubuntu is preferred > on the desktop. I even have an Ubuntu desktop PC. Just wondered what all > of you think or recommend. Thanks. > > Best, > Nick > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rb42list at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 13:28:04 2013 From: rb42list at gmail.com (Ronald Bradford) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:28:04 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I see a lot of Ubuntu Server deployments for LAMP stack (probably more now then RH/CentOS/). As already asked, it's what you plan to run on the server that is more important. How to plan to install it (e.g. via source, or by package management)? RH/CentOS is very behind in many LAMP products and the associated dependencies via package management, while Ubuntu is much more up to date. Then you have to consider the skills. If you generally have RH skills in house, then moving may serve little purpose from the admin side, however there are only minor differences for experienced resources. On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Justin Dearing wrote: > What runs on your servers? Do you find yourself using a lot of third party > RPMS or custom compiled tarballs? Is the software you care about more up to > date on ubuntu? > > Ubuntu has an install without X. Its been a while since I ran Xen VMs.. > Its pretty much what is easier to manage for you. > > Generally speaking though, I use Ubuntu on the desktop and Redhat/Centos > on the server. > > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Nicholas Hart wrote: > >> I am having a debate in our office over whether to continue with CentOS >> distro for use with our VM based servers (XEN) or switch to Ubuntu. I have >> kept the belief that RedHat is better for servers while Ubuntu is preferred >> on the desktop. I even have an Ubuntu desktop PC. Just wondered what all >> of you think or recommend. Thanks. >> >> Best, >> Nick >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dsteplight at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 13:32:57 2013 From: dsteplight at gmail.com (Darryle Steplight) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:32:57 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: +1 for Ubuntu with LAMP stacks. I made the switch from Centos to Ubuntu without any regrets on my servers. On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Ronald Bradford wrote: > I see a lot of Ubuntu Server deployments for LAMP stack (probably more now > then RH/CentOS/). > > As already asked, it's what you plan to run on the server that is more > important. How to plan to install it (e.g. via source, or by package > management)? > RH/CentOS is very behind in many LAMP products and the associated > dependencies via package management, while Ubuntu is much more up to date. > > Then you have to consider the skills. If you generally have RH skills in > house, then moving may serve little purpose from the admin side, however > there are only minor differences for experienced resources. > > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Justin Dearing wrote: > >> What runs on your servers? Do you find yourself using a lot of third >> party RPMS or custom compiled tarballs? Is the software you care about more >> up to date on ubuntu? >> >> Ubuntu has an install without X. Its been a while since I ran Xen VMs.. >> Its pretty much what is easier to manage for you. >> >> Generally speaking though, I use Ubuntu on the desktop and Redhat/Centos >> on the server. >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Nicholas Hart wrote: >> >>> I am having a debate in our office over whether to continue with CentOS >>> distro for use with our VM based servers (XEN) or switch to Ubuntu. I have >>> kept the belief that RedHat is better for servers while Ubuntu is preferred >>> on the desktop. I even have an Ubuntu desktop PC. Just wondered what all >>> of you think or recommend. Thanks. >>> >>> Best, >>> Nick >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List >>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >>> >>> http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation > -- ---------------------------------------------- "May the source be with you." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greg at freephile.com Wed Jun 19 13:34:50 2013 From: greg at freephile.com (Greg Rundlett (freephile)) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:34:50 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:15 PM, leam hall wrote: > 95% of US Linux deployments, give or take, are Red Hat. Source? Greg Rundlett -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greg at freephile.com Wed Jun 19 13:37:32 2013 From: greg at freephile.com (Greg Rundlett (freephile)) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:37:32 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/os-linux/all/all Greg Rundlett On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Greg Rundlett (freephile) < greg at freephile.com> wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:15 PM, leam hall wrote: > >> 95% of US Linux deployments, give or take, are Red Hat. > > > Source? > > Greg Rundlett > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bonsaime at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 13:41:00 2013 From: bonsaime at gmail.com (Jesse Callaway) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:41:00 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: totally off topic, but food for thought - This is cool. But what the heck do they define Unix as? I really doubt many websites use Unix. Is Plan9 Unix? is OSX Unix? On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Greg Rundlett (freephile) < greg at freephile.com> wrote: > http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/os-linux/all/all > > Greg Rundlett > > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Greg Rundlett (freephile) < > greg at freephile.com> wrote: > >> >> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:15 PM, leam hall wrote: >> >>> 95% of US Linux deployments, give or take, are Red Hat. >> >> >> Source? >> >> Greg Rundlett >> > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation > -- -jesse -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chsnyder at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 13:41:22 2013 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (Chris Snyder) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:41:22 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Nicholas Hart wrote: > I am having a debate in our office over whether to continue with CentOS > distro for use with our VM based servers (XEN) or switch to Ubuntu. I have > kept the belief that RedHat is better for servers while Ubuntu is preferred > on the desktop. I even have an Ubuntu desktop PC. Just wondered what all > of you think or recommend. Thanks. > > Best, > Nick > I prefer a distribution that is as stripped down as possible, so that I add only the things that need to be there. Any distro that installs an X server by default is out. But really, choice of distro is a personal preference, like choice of text editor. They all do the same thing, but in subtly different ways. Go with what the sysadmins will be happiest working on. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leamhall at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 13:48:06 2013 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:48:06 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Greg, work in several datacenters. The only odd one used a lot of SLES vs Red Hat. They used 95% SLES and the rest RH. That's just the Linux portions of datacenters; not including Unix or gameboys. Leam On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Greg Rundlett (freephile) < greg at freephile.com> wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:15 PM, leam hall wrote: > >> 95% of US Linux deployments, give or take, are Red Hat. > > > Source? > > Greg Rundlett > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation > -- Mind on a Mission -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From papillion at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 13:55:39 2013 From: papillion at gmail.com (Anthony Papillion) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 12:55:39 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51C1F09B.4010208@gmail.com> On 06/19/2013 12:09 PM, Nicholas Hart wrote: > I am having a debate in our office over whether to continue with CentOS > distro for use with our VM based servers (XEN) or switch to Ubuntu. I > have kept the belief that RedHat is better for servers while Ubuntu is > preferred on the desktop. I even have an Ubuntu desktop PC. Just > wondered what all of you think or recommend. Thanks. I have to agree with others here: go with CentOS. I've tried Ubuntu on the server and, while it wasn't horrible, it was a bit more work than I would have had with a RedHat installation. Software tended to be a little newer too. Anthony -- Anthony Papillion Phone: 1.918.533.9699 SIP: sip:cajuntechie at iptel.org iNum: +883510008360912 XMPP: cypherpunk38 at jit.si www.cajuntechie.org From papillion at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 13:59:01 2013 From: papillion at gmail.com (Anthony Papillion) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 12:59:01 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51C1F165.2090109@gmail.com> On 06/19/2013 12:41 PM, Jesse Callaway wrote: > totally off topic, but food for thought - This is cool. But what the > heck do they define Unix as? I really doubt many websites use Unix. Is > Plan9 Unix? is OSX Unix? Probably one or more of the BSD's. I know a lot of people who use FreeBSD as their server OS of choice. Super secure and stable. Will often run for *years* without a single problem. Anthony -- Anthony Papillion Phone: 1.918.533.9699 SIP: sip:cajuntechie at iptel.org iNum: +883510008360912 XMPP: cypherpunk38 at jit.si www.cajuntechie.org From smanes at magpie.com Wed Jun 19 14:01:37 2013 From: smanes at magpie.com (Steve Manes) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:01:37 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51C1F201.6020006@magpie.com> On 6/19/13 1:15 PM, leam hall wrote: > Easier to find stuff that works on RH/CentOS than Ubuntu. 95% of US > Linux deployments, give or take, are Red Hat. > > Ubuntu has a place, just not in the data center. Yet, anyway. They seem > to be working on that. That's strange because of the three companies I currently work for, at three different data centers (including Rackspace and AWS), they're running Ubuntu. From chsnyder at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 14:03:48 2013 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (Chris Snyder) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:03:48 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <51C1F165.2090109@gmail.com> References: <51C1F165.2090109@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Anthony Papillion wrote: > On 06/19/2013 12:41 PM, Jesse Callaway wrote: > > totally off topic, but food for thought - This is cool. But what the > > heck do they define Unix as? I really doubt many websites use Unix. Is > > Plan9 Unix? is OSX Unix? > > Probably one or more of the BSD's. I know a lot of people who use > FreeBSD as their server OS of choice. Super secure and stable. Will > often run for *years* without a single problem. > > Anthony > > > +1 for FreeBSD, except it makes you lazy not having to touch the server... I had an old 4.3 box that ran untouched for 6 years before the drives finally gave out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From consult at covenantedesign.com Wed Jun 19 14:08:07 2013 From: consult at covenantedesign.com (Ed Prevost) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 11:08:07 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51C1F387.9040002@covenantedesign.com> +1 I now only deploy SuSe images that I've crafted myself -> http://susestudio.com/ On 6/19/2013 10:41 AM, Chris Snyder wrote: > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Nicholas Hart > > wrote: > > I am having a debate in our office over whether to continue with > CentOS distro for use with our VM based servers (XEN) or switch to > Ubuntu. I have kept the belief that RedHat is better for servers > while Ubuntu is preferred on the desktop. I even have an Ubuntu > desktop PC. Just wondered what all of you think or recommend. > Thanks. > > Best, > Nick > > > > I prefer a distribution that is as stripped down as possible, so that > I add only the things that need to be there. Any distro that installs > an X server by default is out. > > But really, choice of distro is a personal preference, like choice of > text editor. They all do the same thing, but in subtly different ways. > Go with what the sysadmins will be happiest working on. > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From papillion at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 14:27:13 2013 From: papillion at gmail.com (Anthony Papillion) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:27:13 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <51C1F165.2090109@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51C1F801.7050409@gmail.com> On 06/19/2013 01:03 PM, Chris Snyder wrote: > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Anthony Papillion > wrote: > > On 06/19/2013 12:41 PM, Jesse Callaway wrote: > > totally off topic, but food for thought - This is cool. But what the > > heck do they define Unix as? I really doubt many websites use Unix. Is > > Plan9 Unix? is OSX Unix? > > Probably one or more of the BSD's. I know a lot of people who use > FreeBSD as their server OS of choice. Super secure and stable. Will > often run for *years* without a single problem. > > Anthony > > > > +1 for FreeBSD, except it makes you lazy not having to touch the > server... I had an old 4.3 box that ran untouched for 6 years before the > drives finally gave out. Yep, it seems to usually be the hardware that takes the server down before an update kills it. Rock solid stuff. From rainelemental at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 14:30:44 2013 From: rainelemental at gmail.com (Federico Ulfo) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:30:44 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <51C1F387.9040002@covenantedesign.com> References: <51C1F387.9040002@covenantedesign.com> Message-ID: Hi, since you're more familiar and probably faster with Ubuntu go with it, if a necessity comes up you'll change it later. I personally prefer CentOS. Whatever Distros you chose use Chef, so on your local you'll be able to use Vagrant to create a development environment with the same configuration as in production. On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Ed Prevost wrote: > +1 I now only deploy SuSe images that I've crafted myself -> > http://susestudio.com/ > > > > On 6/19/2013 10:41 AM, Chris Snyder wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Nicholas Hart wrote: > >> I am having a debate in our office over whether to continue with CentOS >> distro for use with our VM based servers (XEN) or switch to Ubuntu. I have >> kept the belief that RedHat is better for servers while Ubuntu is preferred >> on the desktop. I even have an Ubuntu desktop PC. Just wondered what all >> of you think or recommend. Thanks. >> >> Best, >> Nick >> > > > I prefer a distribution that is as stripped down as possible, so that I > add only the things that need to be there. Any distro that installs an X > server by default is out. > > But really, choice of distro is a personal preference, like choice of > text editor. They all do the same thing, but in subtly different ways. Go > with what the sysadmins will be happiest working on. > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing Listhttp://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zaunere at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 14:43:52 2013 From: zaunere at gmail.com (Hans Z) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:43:52 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I am having a debate in our office over whether to continue with CentOS > distro for use with our VM based servers (XEN) or switch to Ubuntu. I have > kept the belief that RedHat is better for servers while Ubuntu is preferred > on the desktop. I even have an Ubuntu desktop PC. Just wondered what all > of you think or recommend. Thanks. > I'm always in favor of CentOS. Nothing particularly against Ubuntu/Debian, but I just don't have any reason to switch to the newest trendy thing. Sort of like moving from svn to git :) Here are some docs - mostly for CentOS but a lot of things could be applied to any system, cloud, etc: http://framewire.org/stacks Of course, all system setup disclaimers apply :) H -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leamhall at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 15:11:39 2013 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:11:39 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If I needed a non-Linux OS it would probably be NetBSD. However, I'm partial to RH based systems as that's where I make my living. If things move to Ubuntu or FreeBSD, I'll head that way... Leam On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Hans Z wrote: > > I am having a debate in our office over whether to continue with CentOS >> distro for use with our VM based servers (XEN) or switch to Ubuntu. I have >> kept the belief that RedHat is better for servers while Ubuntu is preferred >> on the desktop. I even have an Ubuntu desktop PC. Just wondered what all >> of you think or recommend. Thanks. >> > > I'm always in favor of CentOS. Nothing particularly against > Ubuntu/Debian, but I just don't have any reason to switch to the newest > trendy thing. Sort of like moving from svn to git :) > > Here are some docs - mostly for CentOS but a lot of things could be > applied to any system, cloud, etc: > > http://framewire.org/stacks > > Of course, all system setup disclaimers apply :) > > H > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation > -- Mind on a Mission -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajai at bitblit.net Wed Jun 19 15:12:12 2013 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:12:12 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130619191212.GA7874@www.bitblit.net> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 01:09:17PM -0400, Nicholas Hart wrote: > I am having a debate in our office over whether to continue with CentOS > distro for use with our VM based servers (XEN) or switch to Ubuntu. I have > kept the belief that RedHat is better for servers while Ubuntu is preferred > on the desktop. I even have an Ubuntu desktop PC. Just wondered what all > of you think or recommend. Thanks. We recently switched out front-end server away from CentOS to Ubuntu LTS. We had a requirement for some packages that refused to build on CentOS because its packages are too old. -- Aj. FaceBook: facebook.com/ajaikhattri EnoLand: http://flip.it/c1ktG From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com Wed Jun 19 15:53:43 2013 From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:53:43 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Nicholas Hart wrote: > I am having a debate in our office over whether to continue with CentOS > distro for use with our VM based servers (XEN) or switch to Ubuntu. I have > kept the belief that RedHat is better for servers while Ubuntu is preferred > on the desktop. I even have an Ubuntu desktop PC. Just wondered what all > of you think or recommend. Thanks. > I've been a bit frustrated with CentOS being far behind on package versions, but I'm still using it. CentOS has to wait for the RH Enterprise release to come out first and then go about patching everything which can take them a while. So it's always going to be behind -- but I always trust it to be stable. The Remi yum repository is good for getting more recent LAMP packages: http://rpms.famillecollet.com/ I'm using Ubuntu LTS for a NodeJS project that needed more recent software. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajai at bitblit.net Wed Jun 19 15:56:17 2013 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:56:17 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130619195617.GA8125@www.bitblit.net> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 03:53:43PM -0400, Rob Marscher wrote: > I'm using Ubuntu LTS for a NodeJS project that needed more recent software. Basically, if you wanna play with "new" stuff like Node, MongoDB, Gearman, etc you can't use CentOS (or you build your own packages and manage all their dependencies yourself). -- Aj. FaceBook: facebook.com/ajaikhattri EnoLand: http://flip.it/c1ktG From leamhall at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 16:01:29 2013 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 16:01:29 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <20130619195617.GA8125@www.bitblit.net> References: <20130619195617.GA8125@www.bitblit.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 3:56 PM, Ajai Khattri wrote: > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 03:53:43PM -0400, Rob Marscher wrote: > > > I'm using Ubuntu LTS for a NodeJS project that needed more recent > software. > > Basically, if you wanna play with "new" stuff like Node, MongoDB, > Gearman, etc you can't use CentOS (or you build your own packages and > manage all their dependencies yourself). > Would have to agree there. Leam -- Mind on a Mission -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rb42list at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 17:29:27 2013 From: rb42list at gmail.com (Ronald Bradford) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:29:27 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To answer your question about Unix and Linux there are two good diagrams, first at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_like There is a similar diagram on the Linux page about the *nix family that shows the same thing. The second is the Linux family tree which is very interesting of the 3 flavors http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_distributions and what versions have spawned from others. For those that come from a Unix background as myself, Linux, OS X are new developments, there are plenty of large organizations that run Unix systems. Regards Ronald On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Jesse Callaway wrote: > totally off topic, but food for thought - This is cool. But what the heck > do they define Unix as? I really doubt many websites use Unix. Is Plan9 > Unix? is OSX Unix? > > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Greg Rundlett (freephile) < > greg at freephile.com> wrote: > >> http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/os-linux/all/all >> >> Greg Rundlett >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Greg Rundlett (freephile) < >> greg at freephile.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 1:15 PM, leam hall wrote: >>> >>>> 95% of US Linux deployments, give or take, are Red Hat. >>> >>> >>> Source? >>> >>> Greg Rundlett >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation >> > > > > -- > -jesse > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajai at bitblit.net Wed Jun 19 17:56:03 2013 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:56:03 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130619215603.GA8198@www.bitblit.net> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 05:29:27PM -0400, Ronald Bradford wrote: > The second is the Linux family tree which is very interesting of the 3 > flavors http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_distributions and what versions > have spawned from others. I first ran Linux using the SLS distro - installing Linux on a 486DX machine with 8Mb RAM via 30 rawritten floppies was a good lesson in patience :-) > For those that come from a Unix background as myself, Linux, OS X are new > developments, there are plenty of large organizations that run Unix systems. Sure, though I doubt they're running their web sites on it... -- Aj. (who remembers with SUNOS used a BSD kernel :-) FaceBook: facebook.com/ajaikhattri EnoLand: http://flip.it/c1ktG From chsnyder at gmail.com Fri Jun 21 14:25:31 2013 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (Chris Snyder) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 14:25:31 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] App engine Message-ID: Did you miss the news that Google App Engine supports PHP now? Because I did. https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/php/ https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/php/gettingstarted/introduction Anyone tried this yet? Or have positive or negative reviews of App Engine based on experience using Java or Python? The scenario I'm thinking of involves customers running zero-management apps using their own Google accounts, so there's no hosting for them (or me!) to worry about. Chris Snyder http://chxor.chxo.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greg at freephile.com Fri Jun 21 19:15:52 2013 From: greg at freephile.com (Greg Rundlett (freephile)) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:15:52 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] App engine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I missed the announcement [1] - thanks for pointing this out. I'm a Google Apps Developer, now with even more reasons why my clients love Google. It's getting very cloudy around here, isn't it? Greg [1] http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/12/google-app-engine-gets-new-release-no-signs-of-slowing-cloud-push/ one of many now that I Google for it :-) Greg Rundlett On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 2:25 PM, Chris Snyder wrote: > Did you miss the news that Google App Engine supports PHP now? Because I > did. > > https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/php/ > > https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/php/gettingstarted/introduction > > Anyone tried this yet? Or have positive or negative reviews of App Engine > based on experience using Java or Python? > > The scenario I'm thinking of involves customers running zero-management > apps using their own Google accounts, so there's no hosting for them (or > me!) to worry about. > > Chris Snyder > http://chxor.chxo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zaunere at gmail.com Fri Jun 21 19:20:03 2013 From: zaunere at gmail.com (Hans Z) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:20:03 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] App engine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Did you miss the news that Google App Engine supports PHP now? Because I > did. > > https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/php/ > > https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/php/gettingstarted/introduction > I did and I'm very anxious to try it. The native cloud file support as streams is potentially incredible, among many other things they may be delivering. An optimized PHP binary for a cloud environment? I'm in... This is also cool: https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/php/refdocs/ > Anyone tried this yet? Or have positive or negative reviews of App Engine > based on experience using Java or Python? > Haven't used the others, but I'm excited... just waiting for them to approve my beta request. The scenario I'm thinking of involves customers running zero-management > apps using their own Google accounts, so there's no hosting for them (or > me!) to worry about. > Yes, and the next generation PHP "frameworks" that will make that happen... H -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Sat Jun 22 09:29:38 2013 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 09:29:38 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130622132938.GA25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Hi Folks: On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 01:28:04PM -0400, Ronald Bradford wrote: > RH/CentOS is very behind in many LAMP products and the associated > dependencies via package management, while Ubuntu is much more up to date. I was going to say the same thing. RPM's are YEARS (literally!) behind. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 From zaunere at gmail.com Sat Jun 22 09:38:34 2013 From: zaunere at gmail.com (Hans Z) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 09:38:34 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <20130622132938.GA25870@analysisandsolutions.com> References: <20130622132938.GA25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: Hi, On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Daniel Convissor < danielc at analysisandsolutions.com> wrote: > Hi Folks: > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 01:28:04PM -0400, Ronald Bradford wrote: > > > RH/CentOS is very behind in many LAMP products and the associated > > dependencies via package management, while Ubuntu is much more up to > date. > > I was going to say the same thing. RPM's are YEARS (literally!) behind. > Out of curiosity, are there examples? I compile PHP 5.4 regularly against recent releases of CentOS without issue - xml/gd/etc all work fine. H -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Sat Jun 22 09:50:27 2013 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 09:50:27 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] GIT! (was: CentOS v Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Hi Hans: On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 02:43:52PM -0400, Hans Z wrote: > > I'm always in favor of CentOS. Nothing particularly against Ubuntu/Debian, > but I just don't have any reason to switch to the newest trendy thing. > Sort of like moving from svn to git :) Well, then. That's one more vote for Ubuntu/Debian in my book. :) Git (and distributed version control in general) is _so_ much better than SVN. Using Git for the past 2.5 years has improved my quality of life. I just started working at a company that's still using SVN (Hi, Jesse!). It's deadening my soul. The ability to commit, branch, stash, et al, locally amazing. Plus the ability to have local hooks and the things you can do on the server with hooks is mind blowing. Here are two tools I use with Git: https://github.com/convissor/git_push_deployer http://tbaggery.com/2011/08/08/effortless-ctags-with-git.html The sadness of going back to SVN inspired me to make this package: https://github.com/convissor/ctags_for_svn See you, --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 From greg at freephile.com Sat Jun 22 10:17:24 2013 From: greg at freephile.com (Greg Rundlett (freephile)) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 10:17:24 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] GIT! (was: CentOS v Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> References: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Daniel Convissor < danielc at analysisandsolutions.com> wrote: > > Well, then. That's one more vote for Ubuntu/Debian in my book. :) > > Git (and distributed version control in general) is _so_ much better > than SVN. Using Git for the past 2.5 years has improved my quality of > life. I just started working at a company that's still using SVN > (Hi, Jesse!). It's deadening my soul. > > The ability to commit, branch, stash, et al, locally amazing. Plus the > ability to have local hooks and the things you can do on the server with > hooks is mind blowing. Here are two tools I use with Git: > > https://github.com/convissor/git_push_deployer > http://tbaggery.com/2011/08/08/effortless-ctags-with-git.html > > > Hi Dan, You must be aware that you can use git locally to interface with SVN? See brief tutorial: http://viget.com/extend/effectively-using-git-with-subversion Manual: http://git-scm.com/docs/git-svn Side note, I found this https://github.com/sushdm/git_svn_externals for dealing with svn:externals, if you need to fetch those externals in order to use/build the software. But you should manage any changes/patches to externals in their own proper tree. ~ Greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zaunere at gmail.com Sat Jun 22 10:27:15 2013 From: zaunere at gmail.com (Hans Z) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 10:27:15 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] GIT! (was: CentOS v Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> References: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: Hey Dan, On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Daniel Convissor < danielc at analysisandsolutions.com> wrote: > Hi Hans: > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 02:43:52PM -0400, Hans Z wrote: > > > > I'm always in favor of CentOS. Nothing particularly against > Ubuntu/Debian, > > but I just don't have any reason to switch to the newest trendy thing. > > Sort of like moving from svn to git :) > > Well, then. That's one more vote for Ubuntu/Debian in my book. :) > > Git (and distributed version control in general) is _so_ much better > than SVN. Using Git for the past 2.5 years has improved my quality of > life. I just started working at a company that's still using SVN > (Hi, Jesse!). It's deadening my soul. > Sorry, I see it as hype... after all, all source control is distributed :) The ability to commit, branch, stash, et al, locally amazing. Plus the > ability to have local hooks and the things you can do on the server with > hooks is mind blowing. Here are two tools I use with Git: > > https://github.com/convissor/git_push_deployer > http://tbaggery.com/2011/08/08/effortless-ctags-with-git.html Hmm, and how is this different from svn? Inherit in source/version control is the word "control" - why do I need X number of developers sporting their own pseudo-repository that ends having to get merged back centrally anyway? For open source projects, sure, github.com is the next generation freshmeat/sourceforge. But otherwise, for a general web development shop's projects, git is nothing more than extra commands to run, more conflicts, more complexity, and dealing with bugs that have been sorted out years ago (line endings and content types! git, seriously?) What baffles me, however, is that folks will also pay a public repository (github) to keep their code private... guess it's that nice glossy user interface :) The sadness of going back to SVN inspired me to make this package: > > https://github.com/convissor/ctags_for_svn I think this proves my point :) Sorry, but the emperor has no clothes, H -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bonsaime at gmail.com Sat Jun 22 10:28:16 2013 From: bonsaime at gmail.com (Jesse Callaway) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 10:28:16 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] GIT! (was: CentOS v Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: References: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: On Jun 22, 2013 10:17 AM, "Greg Rundlett (freephile)" wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Daniel Convissor < danielc at analysisandsolutions.com> wrote: >> >> >> Well, then. That's one more vote for Ubuntu/Debian in my book. :) >> >> Git (and distributed version control in general) is _so_ much better >> than SVN. Using Git for the past 2.5 years has improved my quality of >> life. I just started working at a company that's still using SVN >> (Hi, Jesse!). It's deadening my soul. >> >> The ability to commit, branch, stash, et al, locally amazing. Plus the >> ability to have local hooks and the things you can do on the server with >> hooks is mind blowing. Here are two tools I use with Git: >> >> https://github.com/convissor/git_push_deployer >> http://tbaggery.com/2011/08/08/effortless-ctags-with-git.html >> >> > Hi Dan, > > You must be aware that you can use git locally to interface with SVN? > > See brief tutorial: http://viget.com/extend/effectively-using-git-with-subversion > Manual: http://git-scm.com/docs/git-svn > > Side note, I found this https://github.com/sushdm/git_svn_externals for dealing with svn:externals, if you need to fetch those externals in order to use/build the software. But you should manage any changes/patches to externals in their own proper tree. > > ~ Greg > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation I'll chime in here... working on the same repo mr convissor is. For some reason or another the subversion repo in question triggers a fault in git-svn.... after hours and hours of crunching. I'll admit being way too lazy to follow up with a proper bug report. that said.. the bug doesn't get triggered if just checking out a portion/small branch of the entire repo. so maybe some usage of the available inter-repo tools is available. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rainelemental at gmail.com Sat Jun 22 10:48:53 2013 From: rainelemental at gmail.com (Rainelemental) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 10:48:53 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] GIT! (was: CentOS v Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: References: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: OT flame? Ok I jump in. +1 for git... I mistakenly did a push -force deleting days of commits... I called a colleague and asked to push back his latest commit, that saved the day. Having multiple copy is like having lot of backups, so awesome. How could you do that in SVN? Git is the FTP killer, now you deploy with it. Github is not an hype, all communities use it, so you're or you're out! All the company I've worked use it, why? Answer above, + pull requests, teams, issues tracker... /OT From my iPhone On Jun 22, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Jesse Callaway wrote: > > On Jun 22, 2013 10:17 AM, "Greg Rundlett (freephile)" wrote: > > > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Daniel Convissor wrote: > >> > >> > >> Well, then. That's one more vote for Ubuntu/Debian in my book. :) > >> > >> Git (and distributed version control in general) is _so_ much better > >> than SVN. Using Git for the past 2.5 years has improved my quality of > >> life. I just started working at a company that's still using SVN > >> (Hi, Jesse!). It's deadening my soul. > >> > >> The ability to commit, branch, stash, et al, locally amazing. Plus the > >> ability to have local hooks and the things you can do on the server with > >> hooks is mind blowing. Here are two tools I use with Git: > >> > >> https://github.com/convissor/git_push_deployer > >> http://tbaggery.com/2011/08/08/effortless-ctags-with-git.html > >> > >> > > Hi Dan, > > > > You must be aware that you can use git locally to interface with SVN? > > > > See brief tutorial: http://viget.com/extend/effectively-using-git-with-subversion > > Manual: http://git-scm.com/docs/git-svn > > > > Side note, I found this https://github.com/sushdm/git_svn_externals for dealing with svn:externals, if you need to fetch those externals in order to use/build the software. But you should manage any changes/patches to externals in their own proper tree. > > > > ~ Greg > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation > > I'll chime in here... working on the same repo mr convissor is. > For some reason or another the subversion repo in question triggers a fault in git-svn.... after hours and hours of crunching. I'll admit being way too lazy to follow up with a proper bug report. > > that said.. the bug doesn't get triggered if just checking out a portion/small branch of the entire repo. so maybe some usage of the available inter-repo tools is available. > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidalanroth at gmail.com Sat Jun 22 12:25:44 2013 From: davidalanroth at gmail.com (David Roth) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 12:25:44 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] GIT! (was: CentOS v Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: References: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: I agree with Hans. I've never wanted to be one of those people who over the years refused to adapt to something new. But the reality is that it has to really be an improvement, not just new to justify the change. David Roth On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Hans Z wrote: > Hey Dan, > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Daniel Convissor < > danielc at analysisandsolutions.com> wrote: > >> Hi Hans: >> >> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 02:43:52PM -0400, Hans Z wrote: >> > >> > I'm always in favor of CentOS. Nothing particularly against >> Ubuntu/Debian, >> > but I just don't have any reason to switch to the newest trendy thing. >> > Sort of like moving from svn to git :) >> >> Well, then. That's one more vote for Ubuntu/Debian in my book. :) >> >> Git (and distributed version control in general) is _so_ much better >> than SVN. Using Git for the past 2.5 years has improved my quality of >> life. I just started working at a company that's still using SVN >> (Hi, Jesse!). It's deadening my soul. >> > > Sorry, I see it as hype... after all, all source control is distributed :) > > The ability to commit, branch, stash, et al, locally amazing. Plus the >> ability to have local hooks and the things you can do on the server with >> hooks is mind blowing. Here are two tools I use with Git: >> >> https://github.com/convissor/git_push_deployer >> http://tbaggery.com/2011/08/08/effortless-ctags-with-git.html > > > Hmm, and how is this different from svn? Inherit in source/version > control is the word "control" - why do I need X number of developers > sporting their own pseudo-repository that ends having to get merged back > centrally anyway? > > For open source projects, sure, github.com is the next generation > freshmeat/sourceforge. > > But otherwise, for a general web development shop's projects, git is > nothing more than extra commands to run, more conflicts, more complexity, > and dealing with bugs that have been sorted out years ago (line endings and > content types! git, seriously?) > > What baffles me, however, is that folks will also pay a public repository > (github) to keep their code private... guess it's that nice glossy user > interface :) > > The sadness of going back to SVN inspired me to make this package: >> >> https://github.com/convissor/ctags_for_svn > > > I think this proves my point :) > > Sorry, but the emperor has no clothes, > > H > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zaunere at gmail.com Sat Jun 22 12:41:21 2013 From: zaunere at gmail.com (Hans Z) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 12:41:21 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] GIT! (was: CentOS v Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: References: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: > I agree with Hans. :) I've never wanted to be one of those people who over the years refused to > adapt to something new. But the reality is that it has to really be an > improvement, not just new to justify the change. > And actually, this brings up a great topic for mailing list discussion, and future meetings... There's always new technology on the web and some of it certainly could be considered wonderful, and some simply hype... of course, this pattern in technology (or anything really) is nothing new. What if we compiled a list, added the pros/cons of each, and debated it out panel style at a meeting? I'll happily seed the list: ) git / github LESS/etc (compiled CSS) AJAX jQuery Bootstrap (CSS frameworks) noSQL Cloud servers RoR nodeJS Cloud development (online code editors/etc) What am I forgetting? Oh right... Responsive design :) H -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com Sat Jun 22 12:50:56 2013 From: kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com (Ken Robinson) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 12:50:56 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] GIT! (was: CentOS v Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: References: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: How about OOP vs Procedural coding? Ken Sent from my iPhone On Jun 22, 2013, at 12:41 PM, Hans Z wrote: > >> I agree with Hans. > > :) > >> I've never wanted to be one of those people who over the years refused to adapt to something new. But the reality is that it has to really be an improvement, not just new to justify the change. > > And actually, this brings up a great topic for mailing list discussion, and future meetings... > > There's always new technology on the web and some of it certainly could be considered wonderful, and some simply hype... of course, this pattern in technology (or anything really) is nothing new. > > What if we compiled a list, added the pros/cons of each, and debated it out panel style at a meeting? > > I'll happily seed the list: ) > > git / github > LESS/etc (compiled CSS) > AJAX > jQuery > Bootstrap (CSS frameworks) > noSQL > Cloud servers > RoR > nodeJS > Cloud development (online code editors/etc) > > What am I forgetting? Oh right... > > Responsive design :) > > H > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From appel at alsjeblaft.nl Sat Jun 22 12:53:18 2013 From: appel at alsjeblaft.nl (Mark van der Waarde | Alsjeblaft!) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 12:53:18 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] GIT! (was: CentOS v Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: References: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: > > How about OOP vs Procedural coding? That would definitely be interesting. Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zippy1981 at gmail.com Sat Jun 22 12:56:35 2013 From: zippy1981 at gmail.com (Justin Dearing) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 12:56:35 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] GIT! (was: CentOS v Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: References: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Hans Z wrote: > I'll happily seed the list: ) > > Excellent list and I'd like to come to that meeting. I'll add one thing to the git/svn talk. I began working on a legacy code base that was stored in SVN without the trunk/branches/tags setup. I'm a git guy, but generally I'm happy with working with anything besides CVS or VSS. However, I had to switch tasks a lot, so branching was something I missed. I ended up using git-svn to keep a git copy of the SVN repo locally so I could have local branches without affecting the work style of the rest of the team. It worked out really well and I ended up giving a lunch and learn so my coworkers could learn how to "make the code look like a throw up Christmas tree during code reviews" (the red white and green SVN diff outputs). Perhaps in August I could talk 30 minutes to an hour on making git and SVN work together. Justin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidalanroth at gmail.com Sat Jun 22 12:59:20 2013 From: davidalanroth at gmail.com (David Roth) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 12:59:20 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] GIT! (was: CentOS v Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: References: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: Yes, it would be! David Roth On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Mark van der Waarde | Alsjeblaft! < appel at alsjeblaft.nl> wrote: > How about OOP vs Procedural coding? > > > That would definitely be interesting. > > Mark > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hans at arteric.com Sat Jun 22 14:54:44 2013 From: hans at arteric.com (Hans C. Kaspersetz) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 14:54:44 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] GIT! (was: CentOS v Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: References: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: Agile vrs Waterfall project estimation and execution from an agency dev's perspective. Hans Kaspersetz Arteric Sent from my tricorder On Jun 22, 2013, at 12:53 PM, "Mark van der Waarde | Alsjeblaft!" wrote: >> How about OOP vs Procedural coding? > > That would definitely be interesting. > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chsnyder at gmail.com Sat Jun 22 15:23:29 2013 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (Chris Snyder) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 15:23:29 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <20130622132938.GA25870@analysisandsolutions.com> References: <20130622132938.GA25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Daniel Convissor < danielc at analysisandsolutions.com> wrote: > Hi Folks: > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 01:28:04PM -0400, Ronald Bradford wrote: > > > RH/CentOS is very behind in many LAMP products and the associated > > dependencies via package management, while Ubuntu is much more up to > date. > > I was going to say the same thing. RPM's are YEARS (literally!) behind. > > --Dan Do you mean the RPM format, or the libraries being distributed by a particular distro? Using the rpm command is like using dpkg -- no one does it anymore. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pelhamny at gmail.com Sat Jun 22 17:44:57 2013 From: pelhamny at gmail.com (Nicholas Hart) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 17:44:57 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thanks!..MVC Message-ID: I just want to thank everyone who responded to my CentOS v Ubuntu question. In case you're wondering, we did stay with CentOS which I feel is the right choice at this time especially since we are migrating to VMs on Xen server which is enough change already. MVC: My .Net colleague and I were wondering if/when MVC programming is going to take over the world. Anyone using it yet in PHP and do you see it as the future path for all programming? Best, Nick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zippy1981 at gmail.com Sat Jun 22 18:47:46 2013 From: zippy1981 at gmail.com (Justin Dearing) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 18:47:46 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thanks!..MVC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, MVC was described by the Gang of Four in 1994 before the CLR was written, and you could do MVC with Smarty templates since the .NET 1.1 days (to lazy to google exact dates but I was using smarty before .NET 2.0 was released). That being said, I've never used any PHP frameworks besides Smarty. I've done MVCish coding with Smarty in two ways. 1) I've used a PHP data access layer using PearDB or MDB2 or sometthing similar as a Data access layer and 2). I've used a SOA architecture in which I used the PHP soap driver to call services written in .NET. The advantage of that was the .NET services were WCF, which meant I could have SOAP, and JSON bindings from the same service by editing some XML. That allowed me to call the same service from PHP as well as javascript so I could load a page on the server, and reload its contents with an ajax call. Justin On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Nicholas Hart wrote: > I just want to thank everyone who responded to my CentOS v Ubuntu > question. In case you're wondering, we did stay with CentOS which I feel > is the right choice at this time especially since we are migrating to VMs > on Xen server which is enough change already. > > MVC: > My .Net colleague and I were wondering if/when MVC programming is going to > take over the world. Anyone using it yet in PHP and do you see it as the > future path for all programming? > > Best, > Nick > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zippy1981 at gmail.com Sat Jun 22 18:50:12 2013 From: zippy1981 at gmail.com (Justin Dearing) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 18:50:12 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thanks!..MVC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry for the double post, but tangentially related, someone write a View Engine for ASP.NET MVC that uses smarty templates called Sharpy. http://sharpy.codeplex.com/ I never tried it, but if you are heavily invested in Smarty but want to try ASP.NET MVC its somethingg to keep in minds. Justin On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Justin Dearing wrote: > Well, MVC was described by the Gang of Four in 1994 before the CLR was > written, and you could do MVC with Smarty templates since the .NET 1.1 days > (to lazy to google exact dates but I was using smarty before .NET 2.0 was > released). > > That being said, I've never used any PHP frameworks besides Smarty. I've > done MVCish coding with Smarty in two ways. 1) I've used a PHP data access > layer using PearDB or MDB2 or sometthing similar as a Data access layer and > 2). I've used a SOA architecture in which I used the PHP soap driver to > call services written in .NET. The advantage of that was the .NET services > were WCF, which meant I could have SOAP, and JSON bindings from the same > service by editing some XML. That allowed me to call the same service from > PHP as well as javascript so I could load a page on the server, and reload > its contents with an ajax call. > > Justin > > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Nicholas Hart wrote: > >> I just want to thank everyone who responded to my CentOS v Ubuntu >> question. In case you're wondering, we did stay with CentOS which I feel >> is the right choice at this time especially since we are migrating to VMs >> on Xen server which is enough change already. >> >> MVC: >> My .Net colleague and I were wondering if/when MVC programming is going >> to take over the world. Anyone using it yet in PHP and do you see it as >> the future path for all programming? >> >> Best, >> Nick >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >> >> http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com Sat Jun 22 21:31:04 2013 From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 21:31:04 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] Thanks!..MVC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Jun 22, 2013, at 5:44 PM, Nicholas Hart wrote: > My .Net colleague and I were wondering if/when MVC programming is going to take over the world. Anyone using it yet in PHP and do you see it as the future path for all programming? I would say MVC already took over the world for web applications (Rails, Codeigniter, Django, etc) and now people are moving beyond it to other patterns. A lot is happening on the front-end via javascript with frameworks like Backbone and Angular which is more MVVM. From ajai at bitblit.net Sun Jun 23 00:21:15 2013 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 00:21:15 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <20130622132938.GA25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: <20130623042115.GA25813@www.bitblit.net> On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 09:38:34AM -0400, Hans Z wrote: > Out of curiosity, are there examples? I compile PHP 5.4 regularly against > recent releases of CentOS without issue - xml/gd/etc all work fine. I think the fact that you said "compile" speaks volumes... -- Aj. FaceBook: facebook.com/ajaikhattri EnoLand: http://flip.it/c1ktG From ajai at bitblit.net Sun Jun 23 00:22:30 2013 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 00:22:30 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] GIT! (was: CentOS v Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> References: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: <20130623042230.GB25813@www.bitblit.net> On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 09:50:27AM -0400, Daniel Convissor wrote: > The ability to commit, branch, stash, et al, locally amazing. Plus the > ability to have local hooks and the things you can do on the server with > hooks is mind blowing. Here are two tools I use with Git: You should give Mercurial a try: same features as git but simpler commands. -- Aj. FaceBook: facebook.com/ajaikhattri EnoLand: http://flip.it/c1ktG From ajai at bitblit.net Sun Jun 23 00:24:37 2013 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 00:24:37 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] GIT! (was: CentOS v Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: References: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: <20130623042437.GC25813@www.bitblit.net> On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 10:27:15AM -0400, Hans Z wrote: > Hmm, and how is this different from svn? Inherit in source/version control > is the word "control" - why do I need X number of developers sporting their > own pseudo-repository that ends having to get merged back centrally anyway? To be fair, svn is crap at managing branches while git/mercurial have branching as their core. -- Aj. FaceBook: facebook.com/ajaikhattri EnoLand: http://flip.it/c1ktG From ajai at bitblit.net Sun Jun 23 00:26:51 2013 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 00:26:51 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] GIT! (was: CentOS v Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: References: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: <20130623042651.GD25813@www.bitblit.net> On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 12:50:56PM -0400, Ken Robinson wrote: > How about OOP vs Procedural coding? This is like the earlier post asking about MVC - some of us have moved on and are looking at functional programming. -- Aj. FaceBook: facebook.com/ajaikhattri EnoLand: http://flip.it/c1ktG From arzala at gmail.com Sun Jun 23 00:38:25 2013 From: arzala at gmail.com (Anirudhsinh Zala) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 10:08:25 +0530 Subject: [nycphp-talk] GIT! (was: CentOS v Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: References: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: In open-source world, there are hardly any compelling reasons to switch from 1 technology to another. :-) General rule of thumb is "Go with what you are best at." Thanks, Anirudhsinh Zala On Jun 22, 2013 9:56 PM, "David Roth" wrote: > I agree with Hans. > > I've never wanted to be one of those people who over the years refused to > adapt to something new. But the reality is that it has to really be an > improvement, not just new to justify the change. > > David Roth > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Hans Z wrote: > >> Hey Dan, >> >> On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Daniel Convissor < >> danielc at analysisandsolutions.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Hans: >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 02:43:52PM -0400, Hans Z wrote: >>> > >>> > I'm always in favor of CentOS. Nothing particularly against >>> Ubuntu/Debian, >>> > but I just don't have any reason to switch to the newest trendy thing. >>> > Sort of like moving from svn to git :) >>> >>> Well, then. That's one more vote for Ubuntu/Debian in my book. :) >>> >>> Git (and distributed version control in general) is _so_ much better >>> than SVN. Using Git for the past 2.5 years has improved my quality of >>> life. I just started working at a company that's still using SVN >>> (Hi, Jesse!). It's deadening my soul. >>> >> >> Sorry, I see it as hype... after all, all source control is distributed :) >> >> The ability to commit, branch, stash, et al, locally amazing. Plus the >>> ability to have local hooks and the things you can do on the server with >>> hooks is mind blowing. Here are two tools I use with Git: >>> >>> https://github.com/convissor/git_push_deployer >>> http://tbaggery.com/2011/08/08/effortless-ctags-with-git.html >> >> >> Hmm, and how is this different from svn? Inherit in source/version >> control is the word "control" - why do I need X number of developers >> sporting their own pseudo-repository that ends having to get merged back >> centrally anyway? >> >> For open source projects, sure, github.com is the next generation >> freshmeat/sourceforge. >> >> But otherwise, for a general web development shop's projects, git is >> nothing more than extra commands to run, more conflicts, more complexity, >> and dealing with bugs that have been sorted out years ago (line endings and >> content types! git, seriously?) >> >> What baffles me, however, is that folks will also pay a public repository >> (github) to keep their code private... guess it's that nice glossy user >> interface :) >> >> The sadness of going back to SVN inspired me to make this package: >>> >>> https://github.com/convissor/ctags_for_svn >> >> >> I think this proves my point :) >> >> Sorry, but the emperor has no clothes, >> >> H >> >> > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From consult at covenantedesign.com Sun Jun 23 01:36:56 2013 From: consult at covenantedesign.com (Ed Prevost) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 22:36:56 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-talk] GIT! In-Reply-To: <20130623042651.GD25813@www.bitblit.net> References: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> <20130623042651.GD25813@www.bitblit.net> Message-ID: <51C68978.9020800@covenantedesign.com> Hans, I'm starting to feel like some of these posts aren't being made in seriousness... your thoughts. On 6/22/2013 9:26 PM, Ajai Khattri wrote: > On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 12:50:56PM -0400, Ken Robinson wrote: > >> How about OOP vs Procedural coding? > This is like the earlier post asking about MVC - some of us have moved on and are looking > at functional programming. > > From leamhall at gmail.com Sun Jun 23 06:53:23 2013 From: leamhall at gmail.com (Leam Hall) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 06:53:23 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <20130623042115.GA25813@www.bitblit.net> References: <20130622132938.GA25870@analysisandsolutions.com> <20130623042115.GA25813@www.bitblit.net> Message-ID: <51C6D3A3.9040208@gmail.com> On 06/23/2013 12:21 AM, Ajai Khattri wrote: > On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 09:38:34AM -0400, Hans Z wrote: > >> Out of curiosity, are there examples? I compile PHP 5.4 regularly against >> recent releases of CentOS without issue - xml/gd/etc all work fine. > > I think the fact that you said "compile" speaks volumes... > Yes, it gives you the ability to select the features you want for your application. Remember, Red Hat/CentOS are providing basics and stability. You should want to compile PHP, Apache, and whatever else you need for you app so you maintain control of the application's space. That control comes with a cost though, you need to patch your custom tools when there's a security update. By having control you can provide a level of stability for your app, if you are using something outside the standard packages. Hope that makes sense, haven't had morning coffee yet... Leam From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Sun Jun 23 10:19:43 2013 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 10:19:43 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] GIT! (was: CentOS v Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: References: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: <20130623141943.GA1547@analysisandsolutions.com> Hans! On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 10:27:15AM -0400, Hans Z wrote: > > Sorry, I see it as hype... after all, all source control is distributed :) Trust me, I'm one who looks askance at the trendy, the hyped and the unnecessary. Case in point: I don't have a mobile phone. > Hmm, and how is this different from svn? Inherit in source/version control > is the word "control" - why do I need X number of developers sporting their > own pseudo-repository that ends having to get merged back centrally anyway? Because each of those developers can work locally. Gradually making small commits that make changes easy to follow. They can use "stash" to create save points that store uncommitted mods and bring the checkout to a clean state. Editing commits to clarify or fix things. Creating and destroying light-weight local branches at will if that makes things easier. Specific commits can be easily "cherry-pick"'ed between branches. The "reflog" command can be called to find history of internal repository handling and that information used to fix major botches. Then, when you're content with the mods, you push them up. Hans, have you used Git for a project? It sounds like you haven't. Or you're trolling me. :) > But otherwise, for a general web development shop's projects, git is > nothing more than extra commands to run, more conflicts, more complexity, > and dealing with bugs that have been sorted out years ago (line endings and > content types! git, seriously?) More conflicts? Not really. Line endings? There are settings for that. I've seen problems with that in SVN too. Haven't run into problems with it in Git. > The sadness of going back to SVN inspired me to make this package: > > > > https://github.com/convissor/ctags_for_svn > > I think this proves my point :) Huh? That's a bash script that I have to call manually on my local repository after I update, checkout or commit from/to SVN. Compare that to my git hooks of the same ilk that automatically get added to all my repositories from my templates upon clone or init that then get automatically run whenever I take an action that modifies the local repo. It's night and day. > Sorry, but the emperor has no clothes, Hans, have you checked in the mirror? :) See you, --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 From leamhall at gmail.com Sun Jun 23 13:15:36 2013 From: leamhall at gmail.com (Leam Hall) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 13:15:36 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] GIT! In-Reply-To: <20130623141943.GA1547@analysisandsolutions.com> References: <20130622135027.GB25870@analysisandsolutions.com> <20130623141943.GA1547@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: <51C72D38.4060304@gmail.com> On 06/23/2013 10:19 AM, Daniel Convissor wrote: > On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 10:27:15AM -0400, Hans Z wrote: >> Sorry, but the emperor has no clothes, > > Hans, have you checked in the mirror? :) > > See you, > > --Dan Uhh...no visuals...please! :) It sounds like Git is built for large, multi-branch projects like the Linux kernel. For which it was built. One idea might be to put up a PHundamental for those of us about to propose *any* version control with teams we support. I'm on other teams that use Git and my skills are lacking; seeing the larger picture might help things click. Leam From ajai at bitblit.net Sun Jun 23 19:37:05 2013 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2013 19:37:05 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] App engine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130623233705.GE25813@www.bitblit.net> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 02:25:31PM -0400, Chris Snyder wrote: > Did you miss the news that Google App Engine supports PHP now? Because I > did. The Google I/O videos have a good one on running PHP and ends with an example showing how easy it was to get Drupal running in GAE. > Anyone tried this yet? Or have positive or negative reviews of App Engine > based on experience using Java or Python? Ive been playing with using Go rather than Java/Python on GAE. There are many constraints but the integration with many of the Google APIs is nice. If your app can work inside the constraints then the scaling and management of your app is essentially automatically taken care of. -- Aj. FaceBook: facebook.com/ajaikhattri EnoLand: http://flip.it/c1ktG From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com Wed Jun 26 14:54:34 2013 From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 14:54:34 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <20130622132938.GA25870@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: <20130626185434.GA32349@analysisandsolutions.com> Hi Hans: > Out of curiosity, are there examples? The grep package on a dev server I need to use is at 2.5.1 (after running yum update). The version on my Ubuntu 12.04 box is 2.10. --Dan -- T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y data intensive web and database programming http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 From dsteplight at gmail.com Wed Jun 26 15:03:33 2013 From: dsteplight at gmail.com (Darryle Steplight) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 15:03:33 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <20130626185434.GA32349@analysisandsolutions.com> References: <20130622132938.GA25870@analysisandsolutions.com> <20130626185434.GA32349@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: I always compile PHP by hand. There are definitely extensions that are not turned on by default that I may need turned on depending on the project or feature i'm implementing. I guess that's off topic though. On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Daniel Convissor < danielc at analysisandsolutions.com> wrote: > Hi Hans: > > > Out of curiosity, are there examples? > > The grep package on a dev server I need to use is at 2.5.1 (after > running yum update). The version on my Ubuntu 12.04 box is 2.10. > > --Dan > > -- > T H E A N A L Y S I S A N D S O L U T I O N S C O M P A N Y > data intensive web and database programming > http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/ > 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232 v: 718-854-0335 > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk > > http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation > -- ---------------------------------------------- "May the source be with you." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chsnyder at gmail.com Wed Jun 26 15:04:38 2013 From: chsnyder at gmail.com (Chris Snyder) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 15:04:38 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <20130626185434.GA32349@analysisandsolutions.com> References: <20130622132938.GA25870@analysisandsolutions.com> <20130626185434.GA32349@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 2:54 PM, Daniel Convissor < danielc at analysisandsolutions.com> wrote: > Hi Hans: > > > Out of curiosity, are there examples? > > The grep package on a dev server I need to use is at 2.5.1 (after > running yum update). The version on my Ubuntu 12.04 box is 2.10. This reminded me, I don't know about Ubuntu, but Debian has switched to architecture independent libraries in the latest version. Which is nifty and all, but it means that some of the libs you need to compile PHP are not in /usr/lib, but in /usr/lib/i386-gnu-linux (or whatever). I assume this change will make its way downstream (sidestream?) to Ubuntu, so something to watch out for if you like to compile your own php. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ajai at bitblit.net Wed Jun 26 15:05:40 2013 From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 15:05:40 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <20130622132938.GA25870@analysisandsolutions.com> <20130626185434.GA32349@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: <20130626190540.GG29953@www.bitblit.net> On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 03:03:33PM -0400, Darryle Steplight wrote: > I always compile PHP by hand. There are definitely extensions that are not > turned on by default that I may need turned on depending on the project or > feature i'm implementing. I guess that's off topic though. Usually in Ubuntu, those extensions are in separate packages that merely need to be installed to enable them. -- Aj. FaceBook: facebook.com/ajaikhattri EnoLand: http://flip.it/c1ktG From zippy1981 at gmail.com Wed Jun 26 19:00:55 2013 From: zippy1981 at gmail.com (Justin Dearing) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 19:00:55 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-talk] CentOS v Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <20130622132938.GA25870@analysisandsolutions.com> <20130626185434.GA32349@analysisandsolutions.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 3:03 PM, Darryle Steplight wrote: > I always compile PHP by hand. There are definitely extensions that are not > turned on by default that I may need turned on depending on the project or > feature i'm implementing. I guess that's off topic though. > > When that becomes an issue for me, I usually install the srpm, edit the spec file to configure the PHP compile to include what I want, and build my own RPMs. While centos/RHEL and fedora have pretty complex spec files, but its pretty easy to zero on on where the config settings are. Also, its pretty easy to upgrade a SRPM to a newer minor version of PHP, and apply all the vendor specific patches. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: