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[nycphp-jobs] Re: Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+ yrs of exp &

Guilherme Blanco guilhermeblanco at gmail.com
Sat Aug 9 16:08:06 EDT 2008 

And I agree.

I generalized a bit.
Here in my country (Brazil) for example.... my current income is 3x
more than the average of the country, but it's around 70% of the price
of an American programmer with the same skills.


Cheers,


On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 5:03 PM, Jon Tascher <jontas at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I just wanted to point out that price does not directly correlate to
> quality.  Although more experienced programmers who (presumably) produce
> better code will often charge more, this is not always the case and
> certainly does not translate to the overseas market.  I am sure there are
> many excellent and qualified foreign programmers who are able to charge less
> than American programmers due to the differences in cost of life.  That is
> the usually a reason for outsourcing overseas.  Just because someone is
> cheap(er) does not necessarily imply inexperience or poor skills.
> Jon Tascher
>
> On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 3:57 PM, <jobs-request at lists.nyphp.org> wrote:
>>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re: Important Info & Request to all members in this       forum abt
>>      my initial pos (Guilherme Blanco)
>>   2. Re: Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+ yrs (Steve Manes)
>>   3. Re: Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+ yrs of   exp &
>>      good client references (Robert Gulian)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:09:25 -0300
>> From: "Guilherme Blanco" <guilhermeblanco at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] Important Info & Request to all members in
>>        this    forum abt my initial pos
>> To: c_sundar_2k1 at yahoo.co.in
>> Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org
>> Message-ID:
>>        <bcb7aa500808091209q5ec7c65agf97253c6c9977077 at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Actually it seems Ben did it wrong.
>>
>> None here born with all knowledge, and surely they improved their
>> skills by working hard to improve themselves while reading,
>> researching and experimenting.
>> So, none here has enough words to point a finger on someone else's
>> face, talk about skills, etc.
>>
>> You pay for your code and if you want to pay less, your code will be
>> less secure, organized, implemented.
>> That's what differ senior, junior, etc and also good and bad programmers.
>> I'll never put my money into a 15yrs. old boy that tells me that knows
>> PHP, since I know I have a great chance to have holes in my code.
>>
>> Short version: The amount of money you pay is the code art equivalent you
>> have.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 3:47 PM, sundar rajan <c_sundar_2k1 at yahoo.co.in>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi All,
>> >
>> > Thanks for all the criticism to my post & the reply sent by Ben.
>> >
>> > Actually I never know who this guys Ben is , I have never worked with
>> > him
>> > before & ofcourse he is not my client too.
>> >
>> > I have been in this freelancing profession for abt 3+ yrs & never got
>> > such
>> > criticism from my clients , though I had troubles / faults in the
>> > project
>> > that I work with my clients , they use to tell me the changes & I do
>> > make
>> > sure to deliver those changes as per the client's requests.
>> >
>> > I never leave my clients in trouble with frustration , even though if I
>> > do
>> > some mistakes I do admit to my clients & they give me a chance to work
>> > on it
>> > & prove it & I have done so.
>> >
>> > You all can have a look at my online portfolio at
>> > http://www.sundarrajan.com
>> > , besides I have also been member in various freelancing forums & have
>> > good
>> > client reference , reputation.
>> >
>> > If you all wish to help a fellow programmer like me , just request Ben
>> > to
>> > send us what project I worked that had the issues as he said. To the
>> > best of
>> > my knowledge I don't think there shud be such projects , but if there
>> > were
>> > some issues the client would have got resolved it with me , they
>> > would'nt
>> > speak bad abt me to a third party code auditor like Ben (because all the
>> > clients I have worked were very genuine , pleasant & helpfull in
>> > nature).
>> >
>> > Pls guys never think bad & have a negative impression abt me, due to
>> > Ben's
>> > posting , though I'm not located in US , I do work with clients based at
>> > US
>> > / UK etc,..
>> >
>> > 510.455.4387 this is my US skypein number , you can call me in this
>> > number
>> > if you have issues with this post.
>> >
>> > I wonder why Ben has posted such critics abt my thread publicly on this
>> > forum.
>> >
>> > Anyway lets wait for a good solution.
>> >
>> > --- On Sat, 8/9/08, Sean Fulton <sean at gcnpublishing.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > From: Sean Fulton <sean at gcnpublishing.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+
>> > yrs
>> > ofexp & good client references
>> > To: "Andrew Wint" <wint at socketnet.com>
>> > Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org
>> > Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 9:55 PM
>> >
>> > I disagree. This wasn't a former employer complaining about a
>> > consultant's
>> > work, this was another consultant, a competitor if you will, stating as
>> > fact
>> > something that no one can possibly double-check. I think it's unfair,
>> > and am
>> > surprised that, on a list dedicated to helping consultants find jobs,
>> > you
>> > folks would not be more concerned about it. I think this is the first
>> > time I
>> > have seen someone in a public forum accuse someone of something and not
>> > be
>> > called to provide proof of their claims. Very puzzling.
>> >
>> > No one knows what the job requirements were, what the client's
>> > expectations
>> > were, or what the budget was. Did the client provide enough time and
>> > budget
>> > to have the job done right, or did they just say, "Get it done for next
>> > to
>> > nothing," and then when they realized the short-sidedness of their
>> > approach,
>> > hire Ben to clean up the mess rather than go back to the developer they
>> > low-balled and admit that they didn't give him enough time and $$ to do
>> > the
>> > job correctly. We don't know. Ben won't even tell the list who the
>> > client
>> > was or produce evidence of the inferior work. So to my mind, this whole
>> > thread is quite unfair to the developer who originally posted his
>> > availability and should be dropped.
>> >
>> > Finally, as you read this, please keep in mind that we are a company
>> > that
>> > employs people on this list, that's why I subscribe. I have employed
>> > developers here in the US and in six other countries. I find *no*
>> > geo-political differences in coding skills. We evaluate developers based
>> > on
>> > samples, client references and their ability to follow directions. I
>> > have
>> > had more than a few developers who are so focused on developing "great
>> > code"
>> > that they completely ignore the project specs, budget and time-lines.
>> > Those
>> > people don't last long, but people who follow directions do.
>> >
>> > Again, without knowing the original assignment that Sundar was given and
>> > what went on between he and the client at that time, facts which I doubt
>> > even Ben knows, we really can't draw any useful conclusions nor should
>> > we
>> > try.
>> >
>> > Just my $.02.
>> >
>> > sean
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Andrew Wint wrote:
>> >
>> > All he did was to provide transparency, now we are discussing the
>> > issues.
>> > Kristina gave very valid points about the 'delivery of crappy code' and
>> > not
>> > being able to take action because they are in another country.
>> > Another point is that this why we have standards of development
>> > practices,
>> > these standards shouldn't be compromised they can bend a bit but not
>> > break.
>> > Sundar needs to seek them out and adhere to them.
>> > I know it may seem harsh but it may help Sundar down the line in his
>> > growth.
>> >  As well as protect a small struggling company, thinking they are saving
>> > money but  falling into a trap.
>> > Ben did a good thing.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Aug 9, 2008, at 10:50 AM, RDP wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm sorry Donna, but I disagree.
>> >
>> > It's perfectly fine to express a view about someone's work.
>> >
>> > Of course we make errors in our code, everybody does.  But you can't
>> > evaluate experience without examining ones work.
>> >
>> > And employers DO give out this information.  Especially if an individual
>> > was
>> > let go because of inability.
>> >
>> > Finally, I'm having a problem imagining rows of unemployed PHP coders
>> > down
>> > and out on skid-row in cardboard boxes, homeless, because their work was
>> > criticized.
>> >
>> > Bye,
>> >
>> > Rob
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Donna Marie Vincent
>> > To: jobs at lists.nyphp.org
>> > Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 9:26 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+
>> > yrs
>> > ofexp & good client references
>> > It's not only unethical to publicly disparage an individual's ability to
>> > perform a job, you could be subject to legal action.
>> >
>> > Have you ever made an error while performing your job duties?
>> >
>> > Even a former employer would not give out this type of information.  Do
>> > you
>> > want to be responsible for someone not getting work, and ending up
>> > homeless
>> > on the street, because of your personal opinion about their work, which
>> > may
>> > or may not be valid?
>> >
>> > This is not the same as publicly criticizing a particular product, or a
>> > company's business practice.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Sat, 8/9/08, Ben Sgro <ben at projectskyline.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > From: Ben Sgro <ben at projectskyline.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+
>> > yrs
>> > of exp & good client references
>> > To:
>> > Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org
>> > Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 2:17 AM
>> >
>> > Hey,
>> >
>> > I audited a site this guy built - it was full of holes - SQL injection,
>> > XSS, default passwords on CMS admin accounts, etc.
>> >
>> > Also, the code was PHP4 w/HTML sprinkled all over it, cut and paste, no
>> > functions. No layouts, templates or
>> >  smarty.
>> > Basically, impossible and very time consuming to make updates.
>> >
>> > Be sure to request some source before you work with him.
>> >
>> > - Ben
>> >
>> > sundar rajan wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi
>> >  ,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I'm a Freelance Telecommuting PHP/MySQL Programmer with about 5+ yrs
>> >> of experience in building web applications .
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Following are the type of small / contract jobs that I take:
>> >> /Creating Custom scripts
>> >> Member signup with email verification & login with session
>> > authentication
>> >> Dynamic PDF File generation from the database information using FPDF
>> >> libraries
>> >> Command line processing of PHP scripts
>> >> Installing CAPTCHA security code for the forms
>> >> Google Maps <http://maps.google.com/> API to display a location with
>> >
>> >> pop-up
>> >  info
>> >> XML parsing to database
>> >> CSV parsing to database
>> >> RSS feeds using Carp
>> >> Handling File uploads
>> >> Generating statistics reports from the database values
>> >> Generating Graphical reports from the database values
>> >> Generating Excel download from the database
>> >  values
>> >> Working with complex queries in Mysql console
>> >> Building application with SEO friendly URLs
>> >> Installing MySQL , Apache , PHP , SVN , AWStats & software apps in
>> >> linux boxes
>> >> /
>> >> I can also take up bigger projects with proper specification documents
>> >> along with the UI/HTML prototypes.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Checkout my online portfolio at http://www.sundarrajan.com
>> >> <http://www.sundarrajan.com/> to know more about my skill-set ,
>> >> experiences , projects as
>> >  well as client references.
>> >>
>> >> As a verified premier paypal member since 2005  with over 70 seller
>> >> reputation , I can accept paypal / credit card payments.
>> >>
>> >> Please do contact me for further details , if you have any jobs.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> With regards,
>> >> Sundar
>> >> Phone: (+1) 510.455.4387
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
>> >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>> >>
>> >> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> >> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>> >>
>> >> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> >> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
>> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>> >
>> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
>> >
>> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
>> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>> >
>> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
>> >
>> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
>> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>> >
>> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
>> >
>> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
>> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>> >
>> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
>> >
>> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>> >
>> > --
>> > Sean Fulton
>> > GCN Publishing, Inc.
>> > Internet Design, Development and Consulting For Today's Media Companies
>> > http://www.gcnpublishing.com
>> > (203) 665-6211, x203
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
>> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>> >
>> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
>> >
>> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
>> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>> >
>> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
>> >
>> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Guilherme Blanco - Web Developer
>> CBC - Certified Bindows Consultant
>> Cell Phone: +55 (16) 9166-6902
>> MSN: guilhermeblanco at hotmail.com
>> URL: http://blog.bisna.com
>> Rio de Janeiro - RJ/Brazil
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 15:20:38 -0400
>> From: Steve Manes <smanes at magpie.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+
>>        yrs
>> To: jobs at lists.nyphp.org
>> Message-ID: <489DEE06.4090801 at magpie.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Kristina Anderson wrote:
>> > There are some on this list who've previously said that "the market"
>> > will take care of situations where people want to pay low wages to
>> > programmers.  One of the ways that "the market" might do this,
>> > theoretically, is to make sure that people find out the hard way, when
>> > they hire cheap programmers
>>
>> I'm just not sure that's a lesson that can be learned by singling out
>> one programmer for critical review.  Anyone who's been in this business
>> for a few years has heard the nightmare outsourcing stories and knows
>> that the market for software talent works pretty much the same as it
>> does buying a TV or a hamburger: caveat emptor.  If they choose to
>> ignore it, well, that's who lottery tickets are made for.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 15:55:29 -0400
>> From: Robert Gulian <bob.gulian at verizon.net>
>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about 5+
>>        yrs of  exp & good client references
>> To: jobs at lists.nyphp.org
>> Message-ID: <DDA9563C-FCCB-4B3C-893C-54418D09FAF9 at verizon.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Ben,
>>
>> Your .02$ may backfire on you.  You may have an obligation to your
>> client to report your opinion but you have an obligation not to report
>> it to the world at large.  I believe it was a bad judgement on your
>> part and if enough people feel likewise, it may be you who loses work
>> over it.
>>
>> Just my .02$.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> On Aug 9, 2008, at 10:12 AM, Ben Sgro wrote:
>>
>> > It's my .02$. People are free to make their own decision.
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> > On Aug 9, 2008, at 9:26 AM, Donna Marie Vincent
>> > <donnamarievincent at yahoo.com
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> >> It's not only unethical to publicly disparage an individual's
>> >> ability to perform a job, you could be subject to legal action.
>> >>
>> >> Have you ever made an error while performing your job duties?
>> >>
>> >> Even a former employer would not give out this type of
>> >> information.  Do you want to be responsible for someone not getting
>> >> work, and ending up homeless on the street, because of your
>> >> personal opinion about their work, which may or may not be valid?
>> >>
>> >> This is not the same as publicly criticizing a particular product,
>> >> or a company's business practice.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --- On Sat, 8/9/08, Ben Sgro <ben at projectskyline.com> wrote:
>> >> From: Ben Sgro <ben at projectskyline.com>
>> >> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] Freelance Remote PHP/MySQL gig with about
>> >> 5+ yrs of exp & good client references
>> >> To:
>> >> Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org
>> >> Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 2:17 AM
>> >>
>> >> Hey,
>> >>
>> >> I audited a site this guy built - it was full of holes - SQL
>> >> injection,
>> >> XSS, default passwords on CMS admin accounts, etc.
>> >>
>> >> Also, the code was PHP4 w/HTML sprinkled all over it, cut and
>> >> paste, no
>> >> functions. No layouts, templates or
>> >>  smarty.
>> >> Basically, impossible and very time consuming to make updates.
>> >>
>> >> Be sure to request some source before you work with him.
>> >>
>> >> - Ben
>> >>
>> >> sundar rajan wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi
>> >>  ,
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm a Freelance Telecommuting PHP/MySQL Programmer with about 5+
>> >> yrs
>> >> > of experience in building web applications .
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Following are the type of small / contract jobs that I take:
>> >> > /Creating Custom scripts
>> >> > Member signup with email verification & login with session
>> >> authentication
>> >> > Dynamic PDF File generation from the database information using
>> >> FPDF
>> >> > libraries
>> >> > Command line processing of PHP scripts
>> >> > Installing CAPTCHA security code for the forms
>> >> > Google Maps <http://maps.google.com/> API to display a location
>> >> with
>> >>
>> >> > pop-up
>> >>  info
>> >> > XML parsing to database
>> >> > CSV parsing to database
>> >> > RSS feeds using Carp
>> >> > Handling File uploads
>> >> > Generating statistics reports from the database values
>> >> > Generating Graphical reports from the database values
>> >> > Generating Excel download from the database
>> >>  values
>> >> > Working with complex queries in Mysql console
>> >> > Building application with SEO friendly URLs
>> >> > Installing MySQL , Apache , PHP , SVN , AWStats & software apps in
>> >> > linux boxes
>> >> > /
>> >> > I can also take up bigger projects with proper specification
>> >> documents
>> >> > along with the UI/HTML prototypes.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Checkout my online portfolio at http://www.sundarrajan.com
>> >> > <http://www.sundarrajan.com/> to know more about my skill-set ,
>> >> > experiences , projects as
>> >>  well as client references.
>> >> >
>> >> > As a verified premier paypal member since 2005  with over 70 seller
>> >> > reputation , I can accept paypal / credit card payments.
>> >> >
>> >> > Please do contact me for further details , if you have any jobs.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > With regards,
>> >> > Sundar
>> >> > Phone: (+1) 510.455.4387
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
>> >> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>> >> >
>> >> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> >> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
>> >> >
>> >> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> >> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
>> >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>> >>
>> >> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> >> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>> >>
>> >> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> >> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
>> >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>> >>
>> >> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> >> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>> >>
>> >> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> >> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
>> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>> >
>> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
>> >
>> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>
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>>
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>>
>> End of jobs Digest, Vol 22, Issue 14
>> ************************************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
Guilherme Blanco - Web Developer
CBC - Certified Bindows Consultant
Cell Phone: +55 (16) 9166-6902
MSN: guilhermeblanco at hotmail.com
URL: http://blog.bisna.com
Rio de Janeiro - RJ/Brazil

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